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Which ski resort(s) in CO attract weeklong, wealthy skiers?

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
Are there any demographics - either published or anecdotal - as to which ski areas in CO attract the wealthiest families or skiers? Mainly for 1-2 week ski vacations; you know, the type that comes in from Manhattan once a year to ski and enjoy themselves? Good après-skiing that focus on wealthy clients (ie. nice dinners, 5 star spas, etc). I know all the ski resorts have at least one luxury hotel, but I'm looking for ones that really cater to this clientele.

Thanks!
post #2 of 20
Beaver Creek
post #3 of 20
How serious are you at trying to get this information? You would be absolutely astonished at what information is available for resorts. Colorado resorts in particular aggregate an amazing amount of data that can track all sorts of stuff and then slice and dice the data as necessary. Wanna know all your households in your top 10 markets segmented by net worth in excess of 1 million? Wanna know a 3-year spend on a household? Wanna see summer spends vs. winter spends? All of this information is available for purchase. Demographics have long since been replaced by psychographics. If you've ever been to Vail, their marketing department now knows more about you than you know.

(And this all scares me because I know every casino in Vegas is already a few lightyears ahead of what ski resorts are doing.)

Anyway, I think the breakdown from wealthiest to least wealthy as function of total skier visits would look something like:
Beaver Creek
Aspen (Ajax/Highlands lead here)
Telluride
Vail

Crested Butte's demographic has shifted in the past 5 years, so I don't really know where they fall.
post #4 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinn View Post
How serious are you at trying to get this information? You would be absolutely astonished at what information is available for resorts. Colorado resorts in particular aggregate an amazing amount of data that can track all sorts of stuff and then slice and dice the data as necessary. Wanna know all your households in your top 10 markets segmented by net worth in excess of 1 million? Wanna know a 3-year spend on a household? Wanna see summer spends vs. winter spends? All of this information is available for purchase. Demographics have long since been replaced by psychographics. If you've ever been to Vail, their marketing department now knows more about you than you know.

(And this all scares me because I know every casino in Vegas is already a few lightyears ahead of what ski resorts are doing.)

Anyway, I think the breakdown from wealthiest to least wealthy as function of total skier visits would look something like:
Beaver Creek
Aspen (Ajax/Highlands lead here)
Telluride
Vail

Crested Butte's demographic has shifted in the past 5 years, so I don't really know where they fall.
Do you know which marketing research firms are working in that area? Or is it done at the mountain and you purchase the data directly from them?

Thanks for the beginning list; I'll look to narrow down from there.

N.B. I am also interested in the Montana ski resorts although they are still growing and they don't have a large number of people living close by that are also wealthy year round; mainly pied-à-terres. I'd be willing to pay for this information as I get closer to decision time, but right now, I am trying to draw up a proposal.
post #5 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbp67 View Post
Do you know which marketing research firms are working in that area? Or is it done at the mountain and you purchase the data directly from them?
Intrawest does a lot in-house, though they have contracted with a firm from Denver to do some work. I suspect that's changed in the past few years though. Vail also does a lot in-house.

The resource I would recommend is Ryan Solutions. Corey Ryan's background is from Vail. http://www.ryansolutions.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbp67 View Post
N.B. I am also interested in the Montana ski resorts although they are still growing and they don't have a large number of people living close by that are also wealthy year round; mainly pied-à-terres. I'd be willing to pay for this information as I get closer to decision time, but right now, I am trying to draw up a proposal.
Montana's market is quite simple to understand. As a very rough guide from top to bottom:
Yellowstone Club
Spanish Peaks
Moonlight Basin
Big Sky
post #6 of 20
moonlight basin & spanish peaks for sure. Yellowstone is private. You mention Manhattanites, the real $ is the houston crowd.
post #7 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post
moonlight basin & spanish peaks for sure. Yellowstone is private. You mention Manhattanites, the real $ is the houston crowd.
Yeah, I've heard of Yellowstone, I'm not sure how successful they will be. About a year ago, I was invited to one of their seminars in Manhattan.
post #8 of 20
huh? yellowstone seminars??????????????????? http://www.theyellowstoneclub.com/skiing/index.aspx
post #9 of 20
Thread Starter 
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post #10 of 20
oh, you mean a sales pitch. just have a couple million in cash, buy a couple million $ building lot and you're in. I beleive Tim Blixith just lost to his ex-wife in the divorce settlement
post #11 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post
oh, you mean a sales pitch. just have a couple million in cash, buy a couple million $ building lot and you're in. I beleive Tim Blixith just lost to his ex-wife in the divorce settlement
Yeah, more or less.

I didn't go, but probably should have in retrospect.
post #12 of 20
These kinds of demographic & economic analyses are always fascinating. How do you define "wealthy"? Income? Unencumbered net worth? Where do you make the split? Sadly for the casual reader, such info (as noted above) is rarely free.

I'm just finishing up Downhill Slide (interestingly a VS1 suggestion). Despite being a tiny bit dated, it is an interesting little book. One point discussed along the way was that the resort companies do not want too many really wealthy people in the heart of the real estate loop. Because really wealthy folks buy a place and have neither the need nor the inclination to rent it out - resulting in a "cold bed", one not in the rental pool and rarely occupied. The economic model for the resorts in question is premised on "hot beds" - those rented out with a high occupancy rate. Sounds like an interesting balancing act...
post #13 of 20
As others have stated Intrawest does alot of in-house through various depts. I do not know if they sell this information.

You might check with this firm to see what information they can provide. http://rrcinfo.com/rrcassoc/homeindex.phtml
post #14 of 20
The Yellowstone Club has rules about members...certai $ amount in net worth. Yes, Mrs. Blixeth is now the full owner. Not the best of financial times for that place at the moment.

Big Sky
Moonlight
Big Mountain in Whitefish
Maybe Red Lodge as they were just bought out.

As far as CO goes:

A$pen
Beaver Creek
Vail
Telluride

All do in house marketing.
post #15 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by daysailer1 View Post
You might check with this firm to see what information they can provide. http://rrcinfo.com/rrcassoc/homeindex.phtml
RRC is really good, they've been around for a while. What they really specialize in is designing capacity requirements and estimating the viability of different financial models. For example, if you're going to build a resort from scratch, RRC is the company you'd want to talk to. They can tell you things like, "Your resort needs 350,000 skier visits to sustain itself and that means you need a lift capacity of 1,000 skiers per hour spread across X amount of acreage. You should have a bed base of 700 units which means you should probably build about 1400 units. Blah blah."

Someone asked if Intrawest sells names - they don't. Neither does Vail. However, the key is in what's termed "aggregated" data. "Broad" statistics are sold, however there's a lot of worry that the information can lead back to personally identifiable info. I've seen datasets of that sort first hand from the resort side, but I really can't tell if that's possible or not. The financial world has a lot of information available (for a cost) and that sort of thing can be used to unwind aggregated data.

mbp67 - You were invited to a YC thing in Manhattan? Congratulations on being profiled. Will you adopt me?
post #16 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinn View Post
RRC is really good, they've been around for a while. What they really specialize in is designing capacity requirements and estimating the viability of different financial models. For example, if you're going to build a resort from scratch, RRC is the company you'd want to talk to. They can tell you things like, "Your resort needs 350,000 skier visits to sustain itself and that means you need a lift capacity of 1,000 skiers per hour spread across X amount of acreage. You should have a bed base of 700 units which means you should probably build about 1400 units. Blah blah."

Someone asked if Intrawest sells names - they don't. Neither does Vail. However, the key is in what's termed "aggregated" data. "Broad" statistics are sold, however there's a lot of worry that the information can lead back to personally identifiable info. I've seen datasets of that sort first hand from the resort side, but I really can't tell if that's possible or not. The financial world has a lot of information available (for a cost) and that sort of thing can be used to unwind aggregated data.

mbp67 - You were invited to a YC thing in Manhattan? Congratulations on being profiled. Will you adopt me?
Are you in the industry? I'm trying to write a proposal for a business in a mountain village of one of the wealthy ski areas, and at this stage, it is very preliminary. A lot of things need to be decided first, and other projects have to finish up.

I'm not really sure what YC is about nor did I want to go because I was recovering from a surgical operation and didn't want the temptation or let the narcotics I was taking at the time make me do something stupid. I'd rather just buy land in Montana and let it sit for 10 or so years. I got the invitation because I'm SkyJet/FlexJet customer.
post #17 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbp67 View Post

N.B. I am also interested in the Montana ski resorts although they are still growing and they don't have a large number of people living close by that are also wealthy year round; mainly pied-à-terres. I'd be willing to pay for this information as I get closer to decision time, but right now, I am trying to draw up a proposal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTskier
Big Sky
Moonlight
Big Mountain in Whitefish
Maybe Red Lodge as they were just bought out.
Please don't direct any more rich snobs here (Big Mtn). Send them down to Big Sky or Yellowstone where they belong. Remember we've got FOG. No matter how much Foley wants to cater to them that's got money, God isn't on the same page. Rich people want perfect weather every day.
post #18 of 20
When I go to Snowmass I am rich..... when I leave I am poor.
post #19 of 20
Quote:
When I go to Snowmass I am rich..... when I leave I am poor.
When I go to New Smyrna Beach, sharks are always trying to bite people. : I stay out of the water.
post #20 of 20
Too much sun tan lotion... you smell like a piece of cake to the sharks.
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