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Mounting point for telemark

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
If I use alpine skis, should I mount my telemark bindings such that my boot is in the same location as a fixed heeler would be on the same ski?
post #2 of 17
There are numerous schools of thought on this...

'standard' mounting would say the pin line should be at the center of the chord length of the ski. I would find the chord length of the ski (for twin tips I discount 1/2 of the tail) set your boot on the ski at the pin line and see where the center of the boot ends up.

I would also find the balance point of the ski and see how this compares to the chord center and the boot center point.

Once you have located these three points, balance/ chord/ boot center, you should reach up to your scalp and start pulling your hair out. There is no answer as to which you should use, you gotta pick one (I'd pick the middle location) and go with it.

Check out Telemark Tips.
post #3 of 17
Thread Starter 
If I decided to use the balance point, what part of the boot would I put on the balance point?
post #4 of 17
Thread Starter 
I have a book "Ski Pointers by the Experts" copyright 1958 that recommends toe of the boot on chord center line (for size 9, 1/4" back for smaller size, forward 1/2" to 1" for sizes 10-12) so it was "standard" for alpine too. Well, even back then alpiners were more sophisticated than nords, but essentially the same as "pins chord center" which has been the nordic standard for at least that long, I'm guessing. The pin holes are where the toe of the boot would be if the duckbill wasn't there.

I'm really interested in this question. If you had two pairs of identical skis and were planning to use them in the same conditions, etc. All else the same, would you put the boot in the same place for alpine and telemark?
post #5 of 17
Mount the same as an alpine boot, except move the toe back one cm.
post #6 of 17
Thread Starter 
Is that to compensate for the duckbill so your foot is in the same place in both cases?
post #7 of 17
I usually mount them up on the same position as alpine.
post #8 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post
If I use alpine skis, should I mount my telemark bindings such that my boot is in the same location as a fixed heeler would be on the same ski?
IMO ignore the alpine mounting markings. Either mount them pins of chord center (allowing for twin tips by marking the rear contact point) or Ball of Foot on Center of Running Surface (BoF/CRS).

We could discuss the relative merits forever, but fortunately for us that's already been done. Start here and follow links within the thread:
http://www.telemarktalk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=38814
post #9 of 17
Thread Starter 
Thanks everyone for your responses. I realize 'Where to mount my bindings?' is the most asked question here and I probably should have just done a search instead of asking the same question again.

As I mentioned, toe of boot on the chord center mark was a standard method for alpine in the 1950's but it seems that alpiners have moved on, while nords don't change what ain't broken.

Thanks Bob Lee for the link to another forum where my variation of the most asked question (specifically tele vs. alpine mounting points) was asked and the answers provide much food for thought.

Like others I measure perhaps three different ways and compare results. Usually all three put me close to the same place, I choose an average or which one looks best to me. If I had to use just one method, I would go with Bof/CRS first, second choice the 'Maker's Mark'. Pins chord center (adjusted for boot size and twin tip) would be my third choice.

One difference between telemark and alpine is the fact that the rear ski is weighted only with the front of the boot so your weight is balanced on a point forward from where it would be with a fixed heel. Therefore, it might make sense to mount telemark a little farther back. This is the thought that occurred to me and why I started this thread.

This idea was mentioned in the thread Bob linked to, but a contrary idea concerning the fixed heeler's ability to pressure the forebody of the ski (and the very limited ability to do the same with a free heel), lent one skier to suggest that maybe the telemark binding should be mounted a little forward. That was an interesting take on the subject.

Usually different methods result in similar placement, so not much to stress about. My newest skis are K2 with threaded inserts, so I didn't have to think much. My boots are long and I ski primarily on piste, so the forward of the two available positions was a no-brainer and seems to work just fine.

Anyone want to comment on what to do with the balance point of the ski or should I search for that? Would I find the balance point of my boots by standing on a dowel while wearing them and line up boot balance point with ski balance point? I know I've read posts on Epicski about balancing on a dowel in ski boots, but I don't recall if that was related to mounting bindings.

Is the distinction between center of running surface and edge center worthy of consideration? I guess it's the same thing for most skis, but which would you use if the widest point of the ski is not in the same place as the point where the tip of the weighted ski starts to curve upwards?
post #10 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post
Anyone want to comment on what to do with the balance point of the ski or should I search for that?
It might have been posted already, but here is my take, based mostly on 75mm xc experience.

If you were skinning, skating, or kick-turning, mounting pin-line on balance point would make the ski hang neutral off the boot, making ski attitude on set-down easier to control.

If you ski downhill like Chip does, then that issue might also be relevant to you on downhill.




Quote:
Would I find the balance point of my boots by standing on a dowel while wearing them
Mounting balance point boot to balance point ski would be quite forward on a lot of skis and a lot of feet.
post #11 of 17
In general I go with pin line on chord center, however if you go with a balance pt. mount you'll want to place the pin line on the balance pt. (not the balance pt of the boot). You can find the balance pt simply by balancing the ski on a perpindicularly placed screwdriver (should be slightly forward of chord center to compensate for a larger shovel).

If you're going with a free pivot binding, I find that using a chord center mount will position the binding pivot pt. close to the balance pt. thereby providing the neutral balance comprex refers to.
post #12 of 17
Thread Starter 
I hadn't thought about skinning and kick turns, thanks for further complicating the issue.

I use skis designed for downhill skiing so I don't have to ski like Chip. Funny video.
post #13 of 17

Jr Twin Tips

I want to buy jr twin tips for my 12yr old and 9yr old sons. They train for racing pretty seriously and want something that they can play around with on their down time. They are both very focused young skiers that can handle most any terrain. Any suggestions out there? Also what is the rule of thumb for the length of twin tips?
post #14 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post
I hadn't thought about skinning and kick turns, thanks for further complicating the issue.
I was playing with some CRBs this weekend; I was thinking about this thread as I struggled to find a decent mounting point that would still allow enough room for the front tension spring holder to sit on the ski plate.

Are you still using those or are you in some different release binding?
post #15 of 17
I just got a set of Gotamas mounted with pins. I was a bit of a hassle as the shop wasn't sure how to mount them. We wound up going with pins on chord center measuered from tip to end of running surface on tail. This seems to be working very well for me.
post #16 of 17

read whole string. interesting. started 3pin in early 80's. ya, trad thinking is pins at mid chord for x-cnty and backcountry and most my skis are about there. but check it out. what about us strong Norpine skiers????  but am i alone in having my tips wana dive at my face???? in deep snow and whn floating across the fall line my skis go tip up. plus when equal and square wieghted, my tails dont seem to have as much wieght on them as they should. so a couple days ago i ckecked em out. my theory is this,with the primary wieght on foreboot, that wieght should be placed in the center of the flex of the ski. this would apply equal tip and tail pressure allowing the most control. pretty basic to me. its strong logic. my rossi 183cm 5S GS alpine boards are mounted pin to chord. i have always fought tip rise at speed and in powpow.  SUCKS!!!!! my 210cm Toute Niege(ya there old and sill WAY bommer) are a bit more foward and do it less. this allows me to ski steeper and in more control. and that is a paradox!! long double cambered bkcnty-tele skis should NOT work better. SO!! science my 5S'S didnt match my theory, i moved them foward about an inch and a half. this is about an inch shy of where an alpine would mount. boot cnter to chord. skid them today and its a TOTTALY different ski!!!!!  WAY less tip rise and way more staable underfoot. and probally gona go that last inch. prob move the T.N's up a bit too. some good food for thought i hope!!!

post #17 of 17

Hey, gentlefolk.  I think chord to center leaves way too much tip for downhill oriented boards.  I get little control of the tips of my skis and have much more trouble "getting downhill" than I do with bindings mounted more forward.  I don't know where this "more forward" is exactly, but it seems in general to be about 1.5" forward of chord center, sometimes 2".  I mainly ski in Canaan Valley, WV and Garrett County, MD, and we do a lot of skinny ski mayhem, and even for some 10th Mountains or Karhu Pyxis like ski,a tele mount feels better forward of chord center.

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