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Slow Boats Don't Go Fast - Page 5

post #121 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelA View Post
Get over it Volklskier! Whatever PSIA did to tic you off in the past is over and done! PSIA is a ski Instructor organization. It doesn't supply information to the general public about skis, boots, ski areas, clothing, highway conditions nor any other such information.
Really, this thread should have neded right there.
post #122 of 147
Wow! more gas on a flame...
I still contend that the resort is the place for such information. After all the new customer still needs to decide where to go. What better place for information about what to bring with them.
Beyond that, subsequent gear advice is already out there and easily available from the retailers and the manufacturers. Adding a FAQ page to PSIA's site just means they add one more page to their search for equipment before they make a decision about what ski to rent/buy. Then they still need to visit a manufacturer to get detailed information and a retailer when they buy, or rent their equipment. Seems like that step is unnecessary for most newbies who wouldn't have a clue who PSIA is. They are not the equipment marketing department, or the resorts marketing department. Why would we want them to be? You can't be everything to everyone.
post #123 of 147
You can lead a resort to water, but you can't make them ..., ah, ... make snow?

How many resorts don't have this kind of info on their web site? I'm planning on doing a little research on this subject this weekend. Stay tuned.
post #124 of 147
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolo View Post
Did someone say the sky is falling?
Is the sport of skiing falling into demise?
Are beginners buying skis?
Is PSIA/AASI executing its mission? (Presumably it never signed on to do anything else.)
Is it fair to criticize the performance of an organization on criteria that are outside its stated mission?
Here's a thought (with homage to Dick Dorworth): you will pay for what you get. Everything costs something.
Are the members of PSIA/AASI unhappy with the current value proposition?
Is there a movement afoot, or is this thread merely the solitary spinning of a marketing man?
I'm really surprised that someone who is involved in a medium where fast paced change is necessary for development and growth is so determined to deny let alone recognize the need for both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift View Post
Ask the OP in that other thread to post the same question on NS.
That would certainly be funny, especially culling through the monosyllabic answers but it really points up the need even more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift View Post
I think VS1 (and much of PSIA) is in the dark ages wrt to equipment evolution and related technique evolution.
Don't let BPA cloud your judgment. You obviously have a lot more on the ball. I embrace change. But powder skis are no different than sidecut skis. They don't make you a better skier. The public didn't put on sidecuts and start carving the mountain, they still skid al over rarely getting the ski on edge. Same for Powder skis. They have allowed skiers like BPA to ski in powder and crud but they have done nothing to change his skiing. In fact they have actually given him a false sense of his ability and hindered his advancement. This is true for many.


Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift View Post
But VS1 seems to have hit a deservedly raw nerve wrt PSIA. It is beyond me how an organization of its sort can avoid gathering such obvious "low hanging fruit". What is so hard about the concept of generating "pull" and preemptively reducing friction & frustration for prospective clients? Especially when a significant return can likely be produced "on the cheap". Look at the mess in that "600" links.

I think in principle he is correct - a little bit of appropriate marketing could educate prospective customers, set appropriate aspirations/expectations, being in more business, and ultimately bring in more repeat business.
Absolutely right. It's not hard to understand and it's unclear why so many are so opposed to something so simple and obvious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post
lol there are so many L3 that i have scared the hell out skiing 'real' terrain that the certification is meaningless to me.

Also VS1 since I continue to be active online and in this thing that seems to alude you(real life) my influnence and respect no matter how over the top online will be much more than you ever could hope for by posting panties in a bunch threads like this.
Are you drunk or on drugs when you write this stuff?

Quote:
Originally Posted by medmarkco View Post
All of VS’s posts can basically be summed up as – you all are stupid, none of you can ski, I am smarter and better than all of you. .
Not all on here are stupid. In fact there are many who I disagree with who are obviously very smart. As far as skiing goes, I have never claimed to be better than anyone on here other than BPA and for anyone who has seen video of him that is not saying much. However, I can tell from reading many of the posts on here that many on here can't ski and have very little knowledge of the sport or the industry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GarryZ View Post

Rusty did ask for positive comments on this subject and there wasn't much of a response outside of mine.This is more a reaction to the OP and not a reasonable discussion. Too bad. The idea has merit.

Some generic information would be helpful to many people and would put PSIA in the position of being a fountain of knowledge to those unfamiliar with the organization First impressions always mean much to the impressionable. A teaching organization that overlooks the needs of it's clients might lose therm to another that doesn't.
Right again, it's a simple to understand concept.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift View Post

Since I like paradoxical things -- I suspect that if a PSIA informational site were authoritative enough & PSIA could, within its bylaws & legal framework, run ads that such a site could actually represent a revenue stream for PSIA rather than just an expense item.

Anyway, much as it rubs my genetic makeup the wrong way to agree with VS1, I have to say I think he's on track here. Just .02 from an outside observer with no particular axe to grind...
Your ideas are right on track. Perhaps you have to be of a certain age to understand all that the web can really do to inform and build communities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry_Morgan View Post
Really, this thread should have neded right there.
Why? Because you have nothing intelligent to say? I think that after 100+ posts if all you can contribute is 8 meaningless words you should at least spell them correctly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post
Wow! more gas on a flame...
I still contend that the resort is the place for such information. After all the new customer still needs to decide where to go. What better place for information about what to bring with them.
Beyond that, subsequent gear advice is already out there and easily available from the retailers and the manufacturers. Adding a FAQ page to PSIA's site just means they add one more page to their search for equipment before they make a decision about what ski to rent/buy. Then they still need to visit a manufacturer to get detailed information and a retailer when they buy, or rent their equipment. Seems like that step is unnecessary for most newbies who wouldn't have a clue who PSIA is. They are not the equipment marketing department, or the resorts marketing department. Why would we want them to be? You can't be everything to everyone.
It's amazing that someone who is in "marketing" is unable to understand this. It doesn't matter if every resort website has this information. It's about is this a very simple way for PSIA to reach out to the public and it's members by providing information in an authoritative way that helps to increases the enjoyment and knowledge of new and experienced skiers alike and thereby increases PSIA's recognition and standing with the public thereby benefiting it's members!

Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty View Post
You can lead a resort to water, but you can't make them ..., ah, ... make snow?

How many resorts don't have this kind of info on their web site? I'm planning on doing a little research on this subject this weekend. Stay tuned.
Rusty, don't waste your time.
post #125 of 147
My point exactly Rusty,
IMO getting the resorts to include information on their web page makes so much more sense because that's the first place a new skier will visit looking for information. The same is true for people looking for equipment advice. Unlike VS they have no axe to grind when it comes to the retailers and manufacturers, who are just trying to provide the best information about their products. They are the most motivated to help these new customers because they know if they do a good job they will have a return customer. How many of us have a favorite ski shop or two. How did that happen? We liked their products and services.
So what part does PSIA play in these two parts of the ski experience? We answer questions from people who have already purchased a lift ticket (decided and acted upon that decision about where to ski). They also already have equipment. Which is why I keep harping on the whole idea of being supportive to the people running the area and the retailers and manufacturers that provide you your equipment.
VS, your disdain for everyone in the business is not productive or even logical. Bottom line is that we need to do our current job as well as we can and leave the marketing to that department. Learn to play team ball and we all will succeed. Play lone ranger and we all fail. Know your place in the total guest experience, which is teaching the best lesson you can.
If the marketing department wants you product sell it to them. Otherwise stop whining.
post #126 of 147
justanotherskipro - I am a consumer. And I'm one with no intrinsic love nor dislike of PSIA or PMTS - or any other instructional organization. Based on my experience, I think you are wildly off base. I suspect if you and a few others were to shed your emotional and defensive reactions to VS1 on this very specific topic that you'd find some valuable and useful insights. The lack of central authoritative information (including web based) combined with incredibly inconsistent and often contradictory information "in the field" makes for a poor customer experience. Combine that with virtually no interconnect between the instructional side and the rental/sales side of most resorts and it is a maddening mess. I know because I've been there - and not all that long ago.
post #127 of 147
Based on your experience? Since you bring that up exactly what is your experience. You make statements about what is happening at most resorts. How many would you say you have personal experience at? Is that a majority of those in the country? How many ski shops have you visited? I seriously doubt you can speak with authority about any of these subjects, so stop representing yourself as some sort of authority until you can back it up. Same can be said for VS offering marketing insite by suggesting PSIA needs to build an advice page based on his contradictory suggestions?
M101: Marketing your product means identifying your target audience. After all you need to know who you are trying to reach with your message. How would I go about that? Hmmm...
I got it! If I was a newbie how would I go about researching the subject. O.K. as a newbie the first search I would do on line is using the word skiing. Guess what three sites are featured (BTW they pay google handsomely for this distinction) and many many more are listed. So ski.net doesn't meet your criteria, nor does wikepedia. How about about.skiing.com ? Gear guides, newbie checklists, and a load of advice pertinent to creating a positive skiing experience. Talk about "been there already did that"! If that's not detailed enough they suggest contacting the manufacturers. Hmmm, is this sounding familiar? Guess what REI (a retailer) is involved in this site but the information is pretty generic. Is this starting to sound even more familiar? They also have a few links to some ski areas. Oh, my this is getting to be a pattern! Sounds remarkably familiar to me.


The people who sell their products already have created this and other sites. Five magazines that I know of do very specific gear and vacation guides every fall. A couple of big retailers do fall demo days where most of their stock is available to try. Ski area shops have stock available all the time for you to try. Manufacturers all have sites where you can get detailed specifications about their products. As far as I can tell all you have to do is ask these people and they will either give you advice or direct you to someone who can.


Insofar as you complaining about not being able to find the appropriate information, that says more about your inability to navigate the net and ask the appropriate questions, than it say about anything lacking at any organization. Blaming others for your shortcomings and doing so publicly would be comical if you weren't trying to smear someone's reputation. Why didn't you guys complain about NSAA, NSP, and all the rest of the industry organizations? Why just PSIA?
So with all due respect Spin, it is you who are way off base. Heck, my one minute of research produced more than enough information for me to have a great first time ski experience. Combine that with knowing first hand the lengths people like The Garts go to training their staff to get it right the first time.
Which is why I have said many times if you guys spent as much time finding answers as you do complaining you would have discovered all of this is already available.
post #128 of 147
justanotherskipro...Wow!

That post is just...well...wrong. You are so off base in so many dimensions I could write a book about it. Literally. Believe as you wish - but your statement above has managed to capture in one place a lack of comprehension about online search/navigation (and PageRank in particular); a lack of understanding of marketing - especially in contexts which demand comprehension of multiple constituencies; a lack of understanding of the novice skier; and a lack of understanding about why PSIA is arguably uniquely positioned to address a gaping information hole that exists in the world of new and advancing skiers. Especially those skiers who are candidates for PSIA instruction. You are a walking, talking advertisement for why VS1 is correct on this topic. Just my .02...

(and you might note that I agree on precious little with VS1)
post #129 of 147
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post
My point exactly Rusty,
IMO getting the resorts to include information on their web page makes so much more sense because that's the first place a new skier will visit looking for information. The same is true for people looking for equipment advice.
Even if we accept this premise, why is it the best option for the consumer? And what bearing does that have on PSIA being able to promote themselves and their members with some help to the public.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post
Unlike VS they have no axe to grind when it comes to the retailers and manufacturers, who are just trying to provide the best information about their products. They are the most motivated to help these new customers because they know if they do a good job they will have a return customer. How many of us have a favorite ski shop or two. How did that happen? We liked their products and services.
Just because you and others keep repeating that I have an axe to grind doesn't make it true. Just because I disagree with policies and effectiveness of PSIA does not invalidate my opinions. I'm not a sheep ready to follow along like you are repeating a mantra....baaaa.....we don't need change...baaaa.....it exists already....baaaa.....

For your information, the people with the biggest "axes to grind" are the manufacturers and the resorts. They are completely biased! They want to sell their product. That is their concern! Not the consumer. The manufacturers have all you sheep believing you need 4 different types of skis to ski on! It's laughbale.

You are also completely out of touch with the average skier that resorts need. They don't have favorite shops. They don't ski enough and when they do tehy don't have the time to develop the relationships you keep referring to.

The quality of the information is also very suspect as Spindrift already pointed out

Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post
So what part does PSIA play in these two parts of the ski experience? We answer questions from people who have already purchased a lift ticket (decided and acted upon that decision about where to ski). They also already have equipment. Which is why I keep harping on the whole idea of being supportive to the people running the area and the retailers and manufacturers that provide you your equipment.
VS, your disdain for everyone in the business is not productive or even logical. Bottom line is that we need to do our current job as well as we can and leave the marketing to that department. Learn to play team ball and we all will succeed. Play lone ranger and we all fail. Know your place in the total guest experience, which is teaching the best lesson you can.
If the marketing department wants you product sell it to them. Otherwise stop whining.
What disdain do I have for resorts or manufacturers? Now I realize that you work at a lower tier resort but at the major resorts they expect us to market. They expect us to market and sell all of the resorts services. In addition the ski manufacturers expect you to market and sell their products if you are getting them on pro-form. This is an intrinsic part of the job. Teaching the best lesson is one part of it.

You've done nothing but throw up smoke screen after smoke screen. The effect of which is to show you as someone with little or no marketing experience or knowledge and almost no understanding of the dynamics of the ski business.

With each of your bogus arguments you keep missing the point. PSIA providing this information not only provides value to consumers but more importantly to it's members by increasing the profile and recognition of PSIA and it's instructors. It's that simple.

What ski schools and PSIA need to do is to weed out the people like you with your heads in the sand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift View Post
justanotherskipro - I am a consumer. And I'm one with no intrinsic love nor dislike of PSIA or PMTS - or any other instructional organization. Based on my experience, I think you are wildly off base. I suspect if you and a few others were to shed your emotional and defensive reactions to VS1 on this very specific topic that you'd find some valuable and useful insights. The lack of central authoritative information (including web based) combined with incredibly inconsistent and often contradictory information "in the field" makes for a poor customer experience. Combine that with virtually no interconnect between the instructional side and the rental/sales side of most resorts and it is a maddening mess. I know because I've been there - and not all that long ago.
It's amazing but here is a younger person and he totally gets it! Well said Spin.
post #130 of 147
Just for fun, I tried ski.net's gear finder.

I plugged in intermediate female skier, looking for powder performance.

Its answer:

Volkl Attiva S4, with a 69mm waist.

post #131 of 147
Thread Starter 
I'm a father and I'm looking for new skis for my daughter who is:

90 Lbs. 5'2'


She wants a powder ski. I'm not sure if it's because all of the older kids have them or not. Should I be looking at an adult ski a junior ski? what length? what width


Point me to a website which is going to give me the information so that I can make an intelligent choice.
post #132 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by volklskier1 View Post
It's amazing but here is a younger person
Well, as much as it pains me to burst your bubble (and mine ), unless you consider fifties to be "younger", then I'm not... I started skiing in my mid/late forties, so my memory of thrashing around is quite fresh.
post #133 of 147
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift View Post
Well, as much as it pains me to burst your bubble (and mine ), unless you consider fifties to be "younger", then I'm not... I started skiing in my mid/late forties, so my memory of thrashing around is quite fresh.
So I'm the whipper snapper! I thought you were a contemporary of BPA.
post #134 of 147
A while back, Trekchick wanted to know if fat skis made your butt look smaller. That question was unresolved, as I recall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by volklskier1 View Post
So I'm the whipper snapper! I thought you were a contemporary of BPA.
Well, at least we've established this much, spindrift...

Fat skis make you look younger!

post #135 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by volklskier1 View Post
I'm a father and I'm looking for new skis for my daughter who is:

90 Lbs. 5'2'


She wants a powder ski. I'm not sure if it's because all of the older kids have them or not. Should I be looking at an adult ski a junior ski? what length? what width


Point me to a website which is going to give me the information so that I can make an intelligent choice.
Epicski.com
post #136 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by volklskier1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by medmarkco
All of VS’s posts can basically be summed up as – you all are stupid, none of you can ski, I am smarter and better than all of you. .

Not all on here are stupid. In fact there are many who I disagree with who are obviously very smart. As far as skiing goes, I have never claimed to be better than anyone on here other than BPA and for anyone who has seen video of him that is not saying much. However, I can tell from reading many of the posts on here that many on here can't ski and have very little knowledge of the sport or the industry.
To be more clear - not "you EPIC" ... "you PSIA" There are good and bad things in every organization, but you have never spoken positive of anything PSIA. You constantly say you don't "aspire" to anyone's skiing in PSIA. By default, the conclusion I draw is that you see/think yourself to be a better skier. There are some very strong skiers in PSIA - certainly some worthy of a positive comment about their skills.

Wasn't reacting to the idea - just the tone in which it was presented... again. If you really want to see your ideas adopted, or even considered, you're not presenting them in a way that garners support. Here anyway.

I kicked a grid format around for about 5 minutes trying to organize a guideline - general level, type of ski experience (powder, groomed, "all mountain), then split up by a few general weight categories for each. Into the cross sections would be a guideline for the important considerations for that skier/experience.

The more I wrestled with how to organize it, the more I realized it is fairly complex. Execution has to be straight-forward simple, so as not to confuse the user. I'm not sure a version that is truly valuable is as easy as it might first seem. Design really needs to consider who is going to see it and when, which leads back to PSIA being/ not being the most valuable place to host it.
post #137 of 147
I beg to differ. The best place to coordinate it & possibly to host it is probably PSIA. Who teaches the lessons? Who deals with the consequences of "inappropriate" equipment? Who deals with misconceptions about equipment? Who suffers when retention is low vs high?

My personal belief is that "PSIA" (note the quotes) is in some ways behind the design and technique curve. But so what... they are the only realistic game in town. And they do have a bunch to offer. And odds are that any given lesson format will be driven by PSIA. Hence an intrinsic reason for PSIA to strive to maximize the odds of success. I think a little bit of well directed effort could very much ups the odds of students getting the most possible out of their PSIA lessons.

Would you guys rather face lineup after lineup of never-evers or up the odds of happy by-request privates?

The key is simplicity. Any reasonable person will recognize that you can't be all things to all people. But you can provide targeted useful information (hence my suggestion of tagging equipment info onto specific lesson suggestions).

I'll shut up now...
post #138 of 147
"Just because you and others keep repeating that I have an axe to grind doesn't make it true. Just because I disagree with policies and effectiveness of PSIA does not invalidate my opinions. I'm not a sheep ready to follow along like you are repeating a mantra....baaaa.....we don't need change...baaaa.....it exists already....baaaa.....

For your information, the people with the biggest "axes to grind" are the manufacturers and the resorts. They are completely biased! They want to sell their product. That is their concern! Not the consumer. The manufacturers have all you sheep believing you need 4 different types of skis to ski on! It's laughbale.

You are also completely out of touch with the average skier that resorts need. They don't have favorite shops. They don't ski enough and when they do tehy don't have the time to develop the relationships you keep referring to."
So repeat customers aren't what a resort or a ski shop needs? In Aspen the average client has been coming there for years, if not decades. The numbers are different at Keystone but repeat customers still make up the majority of their customer base. Things like the Colorado card and the buddy pass were created to sell to repeat customers. Which according to you the resort doesn't need. They need the one or two timer. You sure have it straight VS. Why do you suppose they created those program if they had enough repeat business. Same can be said for the retailers and the hotel and retaurant industry. Everyone is searching for a way to get more repeat customers and after all isn't it easier to upsell an existing customer who already knows and likes your product(s)?
"What disdain do I have for resorts or manufacturers?" What would you call your comments in red?
"Now. I realize that you work at a lower tier resort but at the major resorts they expect us to market. They expect us to market and sell all of the resorts services. In addition the ski manufacturers expect you to market and sell their products if you are getting them on pro-form. This is an intrinsic part of the job. Teaching the best lesson is one part of it."
Lower tier? Where did you get that? My resume includes Aspen, Crested Butte, and Keystone which is a VA property. In addition, I worked in the marketing depatment for Aspen Ski Co and as a shop manager for SSV when I wasn't teaching in Aspen. I have also worked for one of the top 50 US corporations in marketing and sales. For decades I might add. Not to mention my current career as a wholesale broker and marketing consultant. Once again you opened your mouth and proved it is you who doesn't know what you're talking about!

I also noticed you said earlier that you are a sponsored skier. What does that mean VS? Do you compete or do you just get a pro form because you are an instructor at Jackson? Do you work in the marketing department in Jackson, or do you just toe the company line when you are teaching those 40 days a season and stab them in the back when you're off the snow. Or did you forget posting your negative comments about ski resorts and manufacturers here? You don't trust them but you openly admit working for both and selling for them. Which is why I find it interesting that you keep sniping from the bushes but you never share exactly what you do there in Wyoming. Exactly what qualifies you to offer unsolicited marketing advice? Why all the secrets VS, if you're all you think you are put it out there for public scrutiny. Show us your credentials instead of hiding behind your keyboard.
post #139 of 147
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift View Post
justanotherskipro...Wow!

That post is just...well...wrong. You are so off base in so many dimensions I could write a book about it. Literally. Believe as you wish - but your statement above has managed to capture in one place a lack of comprehension about online search/navigation (and PageRank in particular); a lack of understanding of marketing - especially in contexts which demand comprehension of multiple constituencies; a lack of understanding of the novice skier; and a lack of understanding about why PSIA is arguably uniquely positioned to address a gaping information hole that exists in the world of new and advancing skiers. Especially those skiers who are candidates for PSIA instruction. You are a walking, talking advertisement for why VS1 is correct on this topic. Just my .02...

(and you might note that I agree on precious little with VS1)
The above is just perfect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acrophobia View Post
Just for fun, I tried ski.net's gear finder.

I plugged in intermediate female skier, looking for powder performance.

Its answer:

Volkl Attiva S4, with a 69mm waist.

The problem is, is that ski appropriate for an 11 year old?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Acrophobia View Post

Well, at least we've established this much, spindrift...

Fat skis make you look younger!

ROTFLMAO.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post
Epicski.com
Actually that's what got this thread started. A thread on EPIC that was off base and filled with so much misinformation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by medmarkco View Post
You constantly say you don't "aspire" to anyone's skiing in PSIA. By default, the conclusion I draw is that you see/think yourself to be a better skier. There are some very strong skiers in PSIA - certainly some worthy of a positive comment about their skills.
That's where you are just wrong. Terry Barbour, Jerry Berg. I've skied with both and learned a lot and I would kill to be able to ski like Berg did in his prime. Harald Harb was a PSIA D team member and I would love to ski with him and like him. I've mentioned these guys and others. However, there are others who I would not like to ski like.
post #140 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by volklskier1 View Post
Why? Because you have nothing intelligent to say? I think that after 100+ posts if all you can contribute is 8 meaningless words you should at least spell them correctly.
Look at it this way. I contributed nothing intelligent in 8 words, but you posted nothing intelligent in about 800.
post #141 of 147
VS, how agressive is your cub? If she's a racer she would be used to building up a lot of pressure through the skis. Even as an intermediate. Meaning she would need a beefy ski because junior skis simply don't hold under all of that pressure. I found the adult K2 love series fit my cub's needs better when she free skied. In fact a lot of our smaller examiner level women went to those skis. All I heard from them were good things. Does she do any park tricks where she would need a turned up tail? How about hucking does she do any of that yet? It's a good bet she will if she hangs out there in Jackson.
If she's comfortable just being an intermediate that still might work for her but obviously she would need one of the softer skis in that line, so she doesn't pick up a bunch of bad habits trying to work a stiffer than needed ski. In any event once you narrow your search have her ski all of them before buying anything. I would suspect that she is still growing and by fall she will no longer be 90#, or 5'2". I'd put all of this off until fall when all the demo days happen.
BTW there are a lot of current and recent d-teamers in Aspen. If that's who you like to ski with I'm sure I could hook you up with one of them. PM me a contact # if that interests you.
post #142 of 147
His kid might be that size. But I believe his question on this thread was a hypothetical based on that "other" thread - where he'd claim I was one of the many purveyors of "misinformation". I happen to think that thread was a good discussion of different points of view among a bunch of opinionated people with more than average exposure to many kinds of snow and equipment (including the OP). And with very different opinions of what skiing is about. It reflected an interesting corner case of age/size/weight/terrain/snow/experience/preference that left precious few really good options. It was also exactly the sort of case that is probably better served by debate here and at TGR than by a PSIA site. That's part of why I think that if PSIA embarked on this sort of thing, it should be very bounded and tied to PSIA pedagogy & maybe factor in some regional snow & terrain differences. Otherwise it'll get too damn complicated & contentious.

So, ironically, while I believe that VS1 is correct in the big picture - I do not believe any focused PSIA effort would have addressed the very specific case which drove him to seek a corroborating opinion via PSIA.
post #143 of 147
Spinner, you seem to believe there is a need for this type of information,,, that there's a void of availability. Do you really think PSIA would necessarily be the best source to fill it? When people google for it, do you think they include PSIA in that search, or just the exact info they seek? How many rec skiers really know what PSIA is anyway,,, much less look to it as a entity to be trusted. Don't you think a separate organization of some sort, comprised of knowledgeable people, could just as well supply this info to a seeking public, as long as they have the ability to establish an easy to access presence on the web?

Hope you're doing well, BTW.
post #144 of 147
Spin,
If you notice hypothetical or not, the reasoning is still the same. He thinks the Attiva might not be the right ski for her. I tend to agree since hypothetical or not it's summer and by the time that fall rolls around she will have grown. How much is hard to say, heck she might not grow at all but by the time the coming season is over I would bet she certainly will have grown. Which raises the question of buying something that is exactly right in the present, or buying something that will be perfect in the near future. All of that depends on the attitude and aptitude of the skier and the time of the year. Tenative skiers would find buying for now a better choice, while aggressive skiers will quickly outgrow that equipment. Considering it is summer buying for the near future is probably the wiser choice in the long run.

In any event it is of the utmost importance that the kids actually get on the equipment before you buy it for them. A bad choice in equipment could drive them away from the sport because they have to make so many compensatory adjustments.
Since he works at Jackson it is safe to assume she would probably ski there as well. Leaving only terrain within the area as the last undefined variable. Of course at Jackson that is a a big variable.
So IMO the question ends up being which light adult ski would fit best. If you don't have a brand in mind, try several. Then and only then will you be certain you bought her the right equipment. So if I can add to this that it really doesn't require a gear selector to find good advice. Listen to all but make your decision based on how they feel on the snow. Never buy a thing without trying it first, regardless of who tells you how perfect it is for you.
post #145 of 147
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post
Spinner, you seem to believe there is a need for this type of information,,, that there's a void of availability. Do you really think PSIA would necessarily be the best source to fill it? When people google for it, do you think they include PSIA in that search, or just the exact info they seek? How many rec skiers really know what PSIA is anyway,,, much less look to it as a entity to be trusted. Don't you think a separate organization of some sort, comprised of knowledgeable people, could just as well supply this info to a seeking public, as long as they have the ability to establish an easy to access presence on the web?

Hope you're doing well, BTW.
When I read this all I can say is WOW...it's mind boggling. :

Actually SPindrigt pointed out that there is lots of information none of it particularly effective and more importantly MISINFORMATION but again that's not the point. You make the point in the second highlight.

This is a way to increase the visibility and credibility of PSIA with the PUBLIC. This is of benefit to PSIA's members because in increasing the public's knowledge of the organization it makes it's member's services more desirable and therefore more valuable.
post #146 of 147
Thread Starter 

GOOGLE Searches

"ski school": nets nothing until #5 where you get the Squaw Valley Ski School

"Ski Instruction": 1. Shelty's web site, 2.PMTS/HArb 3. Lito's site

PSIA in at #7

"ski equipment": gets you a bunch of useless sites.
post #147 of 147
Google "skiing" VS.
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