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Snowboarders+Any Mountain= BAD ! - Page 3

post #61 of 81
Hey ALTApig, id love to come make some turns with you and your son but probably wont be out there agin this season, possibly next season. My dad and my brother and i all took a trip to salt lake city last year. It was the best skiing we have ever had. We spent a week and skied Alta, Snowbird, and Snowbasin (there was a womens world cup event that day). I had some of the best ski conditions of my life and deffinitly the best terrain i have ever skied on. I must saqy you guys are spoiled Thanks for the invitation, deffinitly ill let you know if im going to be in the area (especially for snowbird, i love that place).

Now for Billy...(this one is short dont worry)
Billy i think what you have failed to realize is that people have complaints with snowboarders. There are probly people that have the same complaints with skiers, as many people have pointed out. It isnt wrong for somebody to have a complaint with the population of boarders that do not practice slope etiquette. For me this was the target group for this discussion, and likewise for many other people who posted on this topic. Sure KD's post was a little extreme, but he is speaking of the group of boarders that participate in this sort of activity. I am perfectly willing to share the mountain with a snowboarder that respects the mountain and other riders on it.
I'm sure we could go start another thread about how we all hate it when a beginner skier skiles their way down a black diamond slope, and i know everyone here could add his or her own instance when this has occurred. I'm sure that no one here would have any gripes about skiing with a well accomplished snowboarder, i certainly dont. It's just not pleasant for us to be called two planker and have snow thrown at us. I'm sure you can realize and respect that there are those snowboarders out there that treat skiers like this. I have been able to gain respect from many by hanging out in the park with them for a run or two, and throwing some good tricks. It's a good way to bridge the obvious gap between young snowboarders and ski racers. But thats all it is, is a gap, with time and the introduction of twip tipped skiing and snowbaord racing i think that the two sports will mesh just fine in their willingness to share the mountain politely.
Thats all - sorry ended up kinda long
post #62 of 81
Hey BillyPilgrim, how's life in Vonnegutville? Still using the comic hyperbole, I see.

You ride a snowboard? Really? Wow. You must be really cool. Show us your tats and piercings. (We already have imagined what brand of facial hair you sport.)

As you are getting ready in the parking lot, are your rig's windows buckling from the loudness of Linkin Park/Limp Bizkit/Rage Against the Machine/etc....?

If you think that a snowboard doesn't have a greater ability to displace snow, you haven't been watching. That's all anyone needs to know about whether those riding tongue depressors do more damage to the slopes -- groomed or off-piste.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled myopic and dogmatic response from BillyPilgrim.

post #63 of 81
BTW Sugar (hehe), how is my Whistler example not relevant to what is being discussed? Everyone seemed to understand Slider's truck analogy so I assumed they would make the connection with the story, being that the "me first" mentality is what causes people to not have concern for others. I tried to tie it in to the horror stories have been telling about being hit by rude people on crowded slopes, but I guess I failed.

Billy Boy: You're example didn't work for me because I've never seen the problem as being a case of selfishness (or "me first"). For me it's more a lack of awareness based on ignorance of the basic code of mountain conduct with a little attitude thrown in for good measure.

What bugs me is anyone (skier or snowboarder) who hits the hill with no basic training and/or skills. They are a danger to themselves as well as everyone else on the hill.

Unfortunately this type of "learn as you go" attitude seems to happen more often with boarders than skiers. Now this may well be due to the increase interest in boarding, I don't know. All I know is if someone is on the hill I expect them to play by the rules (former ski patroller in me speaking now).

Those ppl in your example were just plain rude but at least they weren't sitting in the middle of the run on their butts.

post #64 of 81
Snowboarders are a part of the scene now, deal with it.

Taxes ain't what they used to be either.

Top 10 ways to mix it up with the snowboarders:

10) Ski by a group of them and yell "Slackers".

9) Ask them if they have any tools.

8) Hang out in the half pipe.

7) Ask them which one Dude is.

6) Challenge them to a race - on one foot.

5) Give one a coupon for a free beer.

4) Tell them how nice they look.

3) Ask what's in their cargo pants.

2) Ask the cutest one to show her...

1) Tell them you know where they can get body piercing done -- cheap.
post #65 of 81
I use to hang with a rider,maybe some of you have heard of him....Kris Klug is his name. What a pleasure it was to make turns with him. Always careful and considerate of anyone around him. Of course when your one of the world's best what does it hurt to stop and help someone out. As an Instructor for many years I make it a habit to stop and help anyone that has fallen or let another person know that I am overtaking them. Remember on your left? Don't hear that anymore. Maybe the person I help will remember that and help another. It's part of the sport and part of being an Expert skier. Don't you think.
post #66 of 81
What's up gonzo, and how's life in Gizz country? It'd be cool if they could pull off the championship but when you're #1 there's always a price on your head. And yes, I am wandering in Time but aren't we all?

Yeah, since I snowboard I'm required to effect a aura of coolness and have modified my speech to include the words, "Booter", "Jagnormous", and I must call my friends "brah". But I also tele, so I also have to look down my nose at all other forms of movement on snow and let loose with a loud "pffft" and roll of the eyes as I pass a snowshoer in the BC. I am also required to eventually move all conversations had on lift rides to how difficult tele is, usually catalyzed by a "Man, my legs are killing me with these incredibly hard turns and all" and then waiting in anticipation for the unsupecting chair-sharer to exclaim, "Yeah, it looks like hard work." (Sorry to all those diehards w/Telitudes but tele's cake, and its reputation has been blown way out of proportion.) So the mixture of elitism and coolness can be hard to manage at times, but I pull it off ok. :

"No tats, no piercings" as sung to the tune Golfshirt by Nerfherder and these cheeks are as smooth the day I was born. I've been trying to keep up my collection of rap/metal music up to date, but since I'm strapped for cash, I have to improvise by simultaneously blasting Slayer, whilst my friend in the next spot pumps MC Hammer, unless I have my skis, then its all Widespread Panic and Phish. My actual tastes run along the lines of Built to Spill and Modest Mouse (greatest band of all time) so I guess somewhere in the middle.

Wow, you know I never realized that snowboards have the ability to displace more snow until you pointed it out. Since snow displacement is my ultimate goal, I have decided to take up downhill shoveling. It involves going to the top of a run and shoveling out large divots every three feet as I make my way to the bottom. But seriously folks, just because a snowboard has the ability to move snow doesn't mean it should be used that way, and only the very inexperienced do. And I will have to call a BS on the off-piste comment, there is no way that snowboards move more powder than a pair of skis. Have you ever crossed a snowboarders tracks as compared to a skiers in the deep stuff? You just about tumble in the giant crevasses created by skiers because they sink in the snow as while snowboards stay on top, heli-skis excluded (my bud just got some Atomic Powder Rides, my god those things are massive)

Oooohhhh.....Green acres is the place to be...

I've changed my mind so much I can't even trust it, my mind's changed me so much I can't even trust myself - Modest Mouse
post #67 of 81
when you keep whacking the horse, & it does not move or winny, ITS DEAD.

I know some great boarders who have taught me a lot about fluidity & skiing the terrain not imposing my will upon it.
But I also have an alta season pass so I avoid all the folks on that shorter steeper learning curve.

You wanna avoid boarders, at least the bad ones, traverse out to your line &/or pick lines with long run outs. Use your skis like the means of transportation they were meant to be.

nope, did not work, that is still one dead equine.
post #68 of 81

3 years ago, in response to my midlife crisis (I turned 50), I picked up a snowboard, paid my 5 days of beginner's bruisedues, and happily rode the mountain for 2 years, exclusively on a snowboard. Now come we to last year. Still in the hard grip of the aformentioned midlife crisis, I went for ski patrol. To do this I went back to skis, thinking I would be able to run a sled better than on a board because I was relatively new to the board. Everything went OK and now I figure I am back to skis, pretty much. However, I do have this idea that I will weave in the board and eventually be able to go either darkside or lightside, depending on my mood. My 12-year-old and his buddies are all on snowboards and they are the future, dudes, so get used to it. Actually, I observe that when they're in the backyard looking to get air, they use anything and everything: skis, snowboards, bigfeet, jackjumpers, and this new thing which is like a skateboard without wheels, with sticky top, slick bottom, no bindings. Anyways, I'm thinking that the future will be weapon-of-choice, depending on mood, weather, whatever.

Anyways, when I was riding a board, I had many interesting, friendly conversations with typically younger boarders because I was something of a novelty, an old guy on a board. Of course the demographics are going to place more adolescent smartasses on boards, so BFD. But we all ride the snow so we are all adventurers. The gods of the hills are different than the gods of the valleys.

Regarding snowboarding ski patrollers: The technically, athletically and artistically best sled run I ever witnessed was a patroller on a board with me in the sled down a black diamond glades trail at Smugglers' Notch. Patrollers on boards are increasing in number and are the absolute equal of skiing patrollers.

It's all great. I gotta tell ya that when I close my eyes, lean back in my chair and recall my most thrilling lifetime runs, what pops right in is the time I took a board down Upper FIS in shin-deep POW. For the Love of Christ, I was FLOATING, man! That big footprint made the pow BOTTOMLESS! Oh OH OOH OOOH, Ahhh JESUS! Whew.
post #69 of 81

Well said. I second that.

I reckon all those that complain about boarders are the same ones that think that everyone else on the road is a bad driver. We call them NIMBYs.

Oz [img]smile.gif[/img]

“rage on regardless”

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ November 06, 2001 12:27 AM: Message edited 1 time, by man from oz ]</font>
post #70 of 81
OK... My turn again! bwahahah! Ain't it great?
Obviously there's an issue here. Such hatred for boarders or skiers. We even hear some people slam teles! I've seen them go by. Very gracefull and beautiful. Boy, I sure wouldn't have the energy to do that. My friend and I saw one go by one day. He shouted, "Boy, that tele is lokin' great!" We could see him smile!

OK...class is in session. I am a teacher also with a psych degree (but what the hell can you do with a psych degree? : ).

Here goes. many people use the term "stereotype" as a bad thing. Stereotopy is a necessary item the human mind uses to orient oneself to his/her environment. We do it countless times a day and don't know it. it becomes 'wrong use' when one gains new information but refuses to 'recatagorize' the one they previously stereotyped. Make sense? i.e. ugh! There's a boarder! Later you meet him and he turns out to be a cool guy, good etiquette, etc. But your mind goes, "Ugh! He's still a boarder. I hate him." 'Wrong use'!!! See? So it's the use of stereotopy, not stereotopy itself that is calle into question.

Now for some generalizations. Generalizations exist because they are there! They make the most, not all, of the population in question.

Snowboarders- 1. Usually younger riders - kids up to 20's. Don't go stating your age... I said this is only a generalization. Why are they younger? First, it's relatively new. Young people like to try new things.
That's cool! 2. Young people follow the pack. They want to be an individual ... like everyone else. (Hope ya'll saw the humor in that one!) all my friends board, so I will too or else I'll be tagged a weirdo! It's a sub-culture thing all adolescents go through. We did too! Naw!!!!!! 3. It's cheaper. ski boots - $150 to $600+. snowboard boots - $60 to $195. ski bindings -$90 to $400. board bindings - $60 to $130. Boards - $90 to $350. Skis - $200 to $750. (Now don't go screming, "I can get it for you wholesale-stuff. These are in-the-ballpark numbers. I also work at Gart. I see these price tags everyday.) The point is, it's cheaper to get into boarding than skiing. Because of this many parents are very glad to see junior choose boarding instead of skiing. Any of you who are parents know exactly what I am talking about. 4. It's easier to learn than skiing. Kids love instant gratification and aren't very enthused about working very hard to get it!

Now... We know that kids are rather mouthy! Get a bunch of them together and they feel power within their group. Add to that the addrenalin rush that boarding or skiing gives. This really loossens the mouth even more with those who have yet to learn the social graces of life.

Do I hold this against them? No! It's a learning thing. Unfortunately, they run into people while they are learning thess social graces of throttling their mouths and practicing mountain courtesy. I have seen young skiers do the same, but I have to admit more so among boarders. Young ones.

Again I say, it's attitude, whether it's a boarder or skier. The behavior has to change. This is very hard to do, and attitude is even harder. Attitude begets behavior. Tell these youngins, even in the nicest way they have to grow up, and you get, "Ain't nobody gonna tell ME what to do!"But as they grow the wind will be taken out of their sails. Who will do this? answer- LIFE! Didn't it happento us?
Class dismissed... test on Friday.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ November 06, 2001 05:27 PM: Message edited 1 time, by jyarddog ]</font>
post #71 of 81
Not every boarder is an idiot, but many, many are. It's a legit gripe. It's the same argument as against those ATVs in the backcountry in the summer, tearing up trails. There is a large minority or even a majority that screw up the mountain for everyone. They plow snow better then the Dept. of Transportation and it's infuriating. I realize that boarding in deep fresh is close to heaven - skiing in it is too. There is no denying, however, that there is a serious problem with out of control boarders on the mountain, and for whatever reason, they insist on going down steeps they have no business on. And it's bad in the West too, sorry. All that said, I generally don't like boarders, but I'm sure you and I would get along fine, Billy, if you're that good.
post #72 of 81
have seen jerks on boards.
have seen jerks on skis.
post #73 of 81
heh, BillyPilgrim... heh heh! "everyone's a voyeur as they're watching me watch them watch me right now" --and-- "the sign said XXX but they were talkin' 'bout root beer"

Woodsy, you are so correct. The decaying equine carcass has been stinking for about a year, yet some continue to try to revive the horse.

Re-Animator, anyone?
post #74 of 81
Now everyone is playin' nice. It happened right after Gonz popped in and showed the love to Billy boy. Then Billy got a wicked funny bone goin'.
This is very good ediquette for all the confused Bear peeps to emulate. Skiers love Boarders love Pinners love Skiers.

Now, Rip it, Don't Strip it and we'll all be happy.
post #75 of 81
Hi, sorry I skimmed a lot of the messages due to repetition (and anecdotes being treated as trends), but the facts are here: Skiers are more likely to plow into somebody. Sorry.

Also, maybe be careful what you wish for re snowboarders getting their own slopes. Lessee, one for you, one for me. The major ski magazine said the skiers voted Deer Valley their favorite, cool. I guess we'll take Alta. Just kidding.

No serious snowboarder wants to see skis banned anywhere.
post #76 of 81
Whoops mondo edit and big apologies. I really let my fingers act before my brain.

My Bad. I'll stay away from that horse carcass.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ November 06, 2001 06:59 PM: Message edited 1 time, by dirtsqueezer ]</font>
post #77 of 81
Rip it don't strip it, arc 'em er park 'em.
post #78 of 81
Hmmm? I have one major gripe against boarders. There was a time years ago when on a powder day (frequent at my season pass area) I could always find lots of tight tree runs after the obvious slopes had been tracked out. Today? Well I seem to have lots of friends in the trees today. -dave

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ November 06, 2001 09:02 PM: Message edited 1 time, by dave_SSS ]</font>
post #79 of 81
Man, I sure hope it will be soon opening day...
This is the nth time that a boarders Vs skier
thread (read: war) is started...
I skied for years in a mixed boarders/skiers
group, mixed in age too, ranging from
teen-age to 50ish, no big deal.
There was a common denominator thought, we all knew how to behave...skier responsibility code.
It's not "etiquette".
If you break "etiquette", then you're thrown out of the restaurant or out of the party or...
If you break the rules on a mountain, any mountain, you may get away with it once or even a number of times, but sooner or later:
You get serious injuries. Or you die.
You can procure serious injuries to someone else (or kill him/her).
And even if it is true that no one of us will come out of this (the life) alive, I'd like to cross that bridge as late as possible.
It's not a boarder or skier thing, it's a PER PERSON thing.
That's all I need to say.
Now, move on.
post #80 of 81
Semantics, semantics....

Etiquette: the practices and forms presecribed by social convention or by authority.

Code: A systematic collection of regulations and rules of proceedure or conduct.

Seems the same to me.

My Golden Rule: be aware of what you're doing and where you're going, apologize when you make a mistake and smile once in a while.
post #81 of 81
Ooohh, thank you Sugar.
Then I propose to abolish redundancies.
Why use two words to describe the same meaning? Such a waste!
See,from my point of view, laws and rules, are there to insure that, by giving up a little bit of personal freedom, everyone can
safely and happily enjoy the remaining part of the same, without stepping into someone else freedom sphere.
Without laws we're back at who's quicker
at drawing the colt...
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