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Womens team sues!

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
Since only the men will be allowed to compete in the next Winter Olympics via the IOC, the women have sued in Canadian court.

If the women can't compete ..... the men can't either .... is the basic premise of the suit.

Pretty hard to argue with that! :
post #2 of 24
This is women's ski JUMPING, isn't it?
I guess that the USST team funding for ski jumping is in awful shape, BTW. Not related to this issue {Olympics}, but still a problem.
post #3 of 24
Here's an article about it.

Quote:
WOMEN SKI JUMPERS FILE LAWSUIT AGAINST VANOC

The Canadian Press 5/22/08

VANCOUVER - An international group of women ski jumpers says years of discrimination against their sport must come to an end by the 2010 Winter Games, not just for them but for the next generation of jumpers.

A former Canadian jumper belongs to the group that has filed a lawsuit, but the body that oversees ski jumping in Canada says the courts aren't the way to make that happen.

Marie-Pierre Morin, a retired Canadian jumper, joined two current American jumpers and another retired athlete Thursday to speak passionately about why the nine women have filed a lawsuit against the organizing committee for the 2010 Olympics.

They say the exclusion of their sport from the roster violates their rights under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

....

The first World Cup event in women's ski jump is next year, though women have been competing in continental cup events for the last few years.

Lindsey Van is one of them, an American jumper who set a record at the Whistler, B.C. Olympic Park Hill in March.

She jumped 105.5 metres. The longest jump made by a male athlete was 101.5 metres.

....

Looks like they have a good case. It will be interesting to watch.
post #4 of 24
Good for them
post #5 of 24
I remember a couple of years ago that some medical folks said that ski jumping is more dangerous for women (their knees?) than for men, or some sort of business like that.

I wonder if this "exclusion" is related to this.
post #6 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baja View Post
I remember a couple of years ago that some medical folks said that ski jumping is more dangerous for women (their knees?) than for men, or some sort of business like that.

I wonder if this "exclusion" is related to this.

May 28, 2008

Uncanny how the sports world has changed so little. Reminds me of how woman runners were perceived in the late 60s, where they were denied entry to the Boston Marathon. See following story as well as official Boston Marathon website:

Women Run to the Front
Roberta Gibb was the first woman to run the full Boston Marathon in 1966. Gibb, who did not run with an official race number during any of the three years (1966-68) that she was the first female finisher, hid in the bushes near the start until the race began. In 1967, Katherine Switzer did not clearly identify herself as a female on the race application and was issued a bib number. B.A.A. officials tried unsuccessfully to physically remove Switzer from the race once she was identified as a woman entrant. At the time of Switzer's run, the Amateur Athletics Union (A.A.U.) had yet to formally accept participation of women in long distance running. When the A.A.U. permitted its sanctioned marathons (including Boston) to allow women entry in the fall of 1971, Nina Kuscsik's 1972 B.A.A. victory the following spring made her the first official champion. Eight women started that race and all eight finished.

http://www.bostonmarathon.org/Boston...on/History.asp

Now a large proportion of entrants for races of all length are women runners

Think snow,

CP
post #7 of 24
Baja, yup, that was said at one point. Not by the IOC however. A certain ISF rep named Mr. Kasper. Gotta wonder how much support was really given for inclusion when he makes that kind of statement.
http://www.womensskijumpingusa.com/news04.htm

warning -http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...79_page2.shtml
post #8 of 24
Ski Racing has an editorial up on this issue by Gary Black.

http://www.skiracing.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6551&Ite mid=2

I found the editorial very poorly written. Here is a quote from it

"The women’s’ jumping organization was advised a number of years ago by the FIS on how the process worked. Had the procedure been followed, most likely women’s jumping would have been a demonstration sport for the 2010 Games and been in position to be included in the 2014 Games as a Winter Olympic sport, according to a former member of the FIS council."

He doesnt give any specifics on exactly how WSJUSA didnt follow the process. The IOC eliminated demonstration sports starting with the Atlanta games in 1996.
post #9 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baja View Post
I remember a couple of years ago that some medical folks said that ski jumping is more dangerous for women (their knees?) than for men, or some sort of business like that.

I wonder if this "exclusion" is related to this.
Uhhh Baja, pick another non-knee or skeletal related body part. And DON'T spit your coffee on your keyboard when you read it. Forwarning. And actually oh Dear Baja, since I really like you, make sure you have nothing in your mouth when you read it (2nd link), wouldn't want you to choke or gag or anything like that.
post #10 of 24
I would LOVE to see a male gymnast sue because there isn't a Men's Uneven Parallel Bar event.

Here's an idea, if you want to be an Olympian... pick an Olympic Sport.

I know thats harsh, and it might be deemed sexist, but come on, if you want to be an Olympian why not start training in an actual Olympic sport? There are couple of things that I am REALLY good at, some of them I may be at a world class level... none are Olympic sports. I don't feel slighted. Women's Ski Jumping wasn't eliminated from the Olympics, all of the women who have been training KNEW it wasn't an Olympic sport. Should they be included? Probably... but isn't an Olympic sport. Neither is Men's Softball.
post #11 of 24
So would I. Then the excuse for denial could be "What if they slip & hit their abdomens/pelvis uneven on the unevens ? This could be dangerous to their reproductive health" or "Well, there are really only about 5 at any given competition who can really perform". Wouldn't want to "waterdown" the medals.

And I might agree with you about picking an Olympic sport to be an Olympian, except ski jumping IS an Olympic sport. So is show jumping, men & women compete together in that one. No gender seperation there. And : IIRC , American women medalled in olympic ski racing before American men ever did. So I don't really like lawsuits much myself. But they are a vehicle for change. And the logic of adding skiercross for the appeal to a younger generation= the current but old marketing trend of "It's gotta be sexy" before adding women's ski jumping w/the numerous goofy comments is not too credible.

And not to be harsh or sexist here, but remember you are talking about saying NO to women. Which usually turns out to be just a matter of time before we get our way. That was about the high point in the arguement on the FIS or IOC's part. Then they opened their mouths making some strange comments. Which usually means, it's only a matter of time before they have buried themselves so deep in embarrassment they may not dig out. So why waste the time & money defending a lawsuit ? To repeat history ad naseum ? We all know it's just a matter of time. Why waste it ?
post #12 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by 911over View Post
Uhhh Baja, pick another non-knee or skeletal related body part. And DON'T spit your coffee on your keyboard when you read it. Forwarning. And actually oh Dear Baja, since I really like you, make sure you have nothing in your mouth when you read it (2nd link), wouldn't want you to choke or gag or anything like that.

Of course you really like me, 911over. You are one of my blessed children protected under my sovereign reign in my Stakeholder's family.


Nope, no gagging. Just some eye rolling. :

I can only assume it's men making these paternal decisions in the interest of protecting the delicate female anatomy. Probably male "medical experts." :


"[ski] Jumping can have serious effects on the uterus and abdomen." :

So let's ban women's competitive jumping from the Olympics.

But all the other sports... gymnastics, weightlifting, softball, judo, taekwando, volleyball, pole vaulting... ohhhhhhhhhhh, they're OK. They won't cause serious effects on the uterus and abdomen. Nosiree. :


Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom
Women's Ski Jumping wasn't eliminated from the Olympics, all of the women who have been training KNEW it wasn't an Olympic sport. Should they be included? Probably... but isn't an Olympic sport.
I guess just there isn't a good argument not to include Women's Ski Jumping in the Olympics. "Serious effects on the uterus and abdomen" is lame. We can talk about serious effects on both male and female athletes for every sport and discipline in the Olympics.


Quote:
Probably... but isn't an Olympic sport. Neither is Men's Softball.
But Men's Baseball is.
post #13 of 24
Thread Starter 
Slalom can have serious effects on a mans abilty to reproduce.

I been singin' soprano since a few bamboo gates ....
post #14 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baja View Post

But Men's Baseball is.
Baseball and Softball are not the same, or were the lawsuits to get Little League, High School Baseball and College Baseball open to Women Athletes just a waste of litigation?

52% of the population are WOMEN, you are the MAJORITY. If you want Ski Jumping to be an Olympic sport then start supporting each other and MAKE it a sport that the Olympics can't overlook... or just keep whinning about being oppressed. the reality about women's sports is: most Women don't pay any attention to sports, if there isn't an audiance then there aren't going to be advertisers. Without advertisers there aren't promoters, without promoters there is no sport. If a small portion of the MAJORITY SEX supported their own sports then they would have everything the NBA, NFL or MLB have.

It's not my fault that YOU don't. Don't ask for it, TAKE it (that's what us in the minority do).
post #15 of 24
We are at 52 % now ???!!! Then what's the big hold up ??
Whinning ? Whiteroom I like ya & far be it for me to argue whether filing a lawsuit = whinning.
It does all really come down to money like you said. Huge amounts in the case of money making sports. Doubt any gender ski jumping can even register in the black when it comes to bringing in the all mighty dollar.

Now as to your statement of Women don't pay any attention to sports. We do & you know that. You just might not realize that at the point when there are toddlers to take to those sports, guess who gets to go. And if you plan on going to a sporting event, or if planning on a training day or lesson in a non-paid or non-career sport & the kid gets sick, guess what. Honey, you need to come home from work & take care of the sick kid while I go watch , train, whatever. Yes, I know your paycheck feeds the family , pays the bills, & actually puts the roof over our heads, but I've got plans. Uh huh. If the sport is a woman's career & the pay is sufficient that child care, nanny's etc are covered so adequate time, effort & concentration can be spent, then women can continue to participate competively during those several decades of child rearing. Hence the success of women's professional & team sports. Individual sports are iffy enough for the single woman or woman with no dependents to raise. But add that significant factor & it can be a breaking point. So can the family budget when you add in children that just don't pay their own way. But ya'll knew that already from all the other prior lawsuits on work conditions etc. It is just frequently forgotten.

And now that it's Baseball season I've been attending games 3 days a week. It may be Little League, but I'm paying attention. Dookey will be closing Mammoth this weekend & I'll be supporting that Little League on Saturday ! It is my choice to lend support to my kid's sporting endeavors by spectating, working the snackbar, etc. before supporting my gender's sports as a spectator. Fortunately there are many ways to support beyond spectating. Water polo anyone ? ( no son, you never want to play water polo, never ! yes dear, I know it's an olympic sport. You do know no one pays for advertising at a water polo event don't you ? I mean, those tickets are the last to sell out for the olympics ya know. I'm not sure they even sell out. No you will NOT play water polo ! Yes child, I do know they televise/broadcast it on TV. Yes, I know you can't watch the women's olympic ski jumping, not even in person, cause there isn't any to watch. No, you may NOT compete in water polo & that's my final word. )
post #16 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by 911over View Post
It does all really come down to money like you said. Huge amounts in the case of money making sports. Doubt any gender ski jumping can even register in the black when it comes to bringing in the all mighty dollar.
Ski jumping is very popular in Europe, drawing thousands of spectators. Your statement sounds very ethnocentric.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 911over
Now as to your statement of Women don't pay any attention to sports. We do & you know that. You just might not realize that at the point when there are toddlers to take to those sports, guess who gets to go. And if you plan on going to a sporting event, or if planning on a training day or lesson in a non-paid or non-career sport & the kid gets sick, guess what. Honey, you need to come home from work & take care of the sick kid while I go watch , train, whatever. Yes, I know your paycheck feeds the family , pays the bills, & actually puts the roof over our heads, but I've got plans. Uh huh. If the sport is a woman's career & the pay is sufficient that child care, nanny's etc are covered so adequate time, effort & concentration can be spent, then women can continue to participate competively during those several decades of child rearing. Hence the success of women's professional & team sports. Individual sports are iffy enough for the single woman or woman with no dependents to raise. But add that significant factor & it can be a breaking point. So can the family budget when you add in children that just don't pay their own way. But ya'll knew that already from all the other prior lawsuits on work conditions etc. It is just frequently forgotten.
So basically, this just says to me that women have no other choice besides motherhood (, which interferes with their participating in and watching sports, which bears out what Whiteroom said. If there was demand by women to watch women's sports, there would be advertising money interested in paying for airtime associated with it aimed at that demographic (ever wonder why the networks don't have sports on during the weekdays rather than soaps?). This actually has happened with regards to figure skating, which only used to be on only during the Olympics, plus the National and World Championships. Advertisers discovered that women liked watching it, and now ABC has so many skating events on, I started calling it the Ice Skating Channel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 911over
And now that it's Baseball season I've been attending games 3 days a week. It may be Little League, but I'm paying attention. Dookey will be closing Mammoth this weekend & I'll be supporting that Little League on Saturday ! It is my choice to lend support to my kid's sporting endeavors by spectating, working the snackbar, etc. before supporting my gender's sports as a spectator.
And there's the rub, advertisers really couldn't care less if moms watch their kids games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 911over
Fortunately there are many ways to support beyond spectating. Water polo anyone ? ( no son, you never want to play water polo, never ! yes dear, I know it's an olympic sport. You do know no one pays for advertising at a water polo event don't you ? I mean, those tickets are the last to sell out for the olympics ya know. I'm not sure they even sell out. No you will NOT play water polo ! Yes child, I do know they televise/broadcast it on TV. Yes, I know you can't watch the women's olympic ski jumping, not even in person, cause there isn't any to watch. No, you may NOT compete in water polo & that's my final word. )
Hmmmm....I can't make a lot of sense out of this.
post #17 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by volantaddict View Post
Ski jumping is very popular in Europe, drawing thousands of spectators. Your statement sounds very ethnocentric.
Thanks VA. It does sound a bit that way. Wonder how much spectators have to pay to watch ? There are a lot of sports that have good spectator followings, but not high ticket prices as seen in professional & pro-team sports. It helps support that competition, but not big money makers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by volantaddict View Post
So basically, this just says to me that women have no other choice besides motherhood (, which interferes with their participating in and watching sports, which bears out what Whiteroom said. If there was demand by women to watch women's sports, there would be advertising money interested in paying for airtime associated with it aimed at that demographic (ever wonder why the networks don't have sports on during the weekdays rather than soaps?). This actually has happened with regards to figure skating, which only used to be on only during the Olympics, plus the National and World Championships. Advertisers discovered that women liked watching it, and now ABC has so many skating events on, I started calling it the Ice Skating Channel.
VA, it's a statement of IF & WHEN motherhood becomes a choice. And yes, it is generalized. And no it does not apply to all. It is simply part of why women that have been avid sports participants or enthusiasts & paying attention, have their attention diverted in other directions w/other priorities/concerns. Time management & how one becomes a soccer mom ? But that's a label & I'm not real certain exactly what a soccer mom is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by volantaddict View Post
And there's the rub, advertisers really couldn't care less if moms watch their kids games.

Hmmmm....I can't make a lot of sense out of this.
Don't bother trying. Late night ramblings of a mom that doesn't want to have to attend water polo competitions any time in the future.
post #18 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by 911over View Post
Don't bother trying. Late night ramblings of a mom that doesn't want to have to attend water polo competitions any time in the future.
Oh, you actually have a kid that wants to play water polo? It really is an excellent sport to watch IMO. It is also probably the most physically demanding sport of them all. Treading water in between 30M sprints for up to 15 minutes at a time? I can't even begin to fathom it. :
post #19 of 24
: NO ! So far he hasn't heard of it & I certainly hope I didn't jinx myself. Since the TV rarely comes on I doubt he'll get exposed to it anytime soon. I'm positive it would interfere w/ski season and baseball. Absolutely certain.
post #20 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by volantaddict View Post
Ski jumping is very popular in Europe, drawing thousands of spectators. Your statement sounds very ethnocentric.
VA thanks for bringing this up. It reminded me of why the modern day Winter/Summer Olympics had meaning while I was growing up. As well as the old ABC Wide World of Sports. BITD telecasting gave us exposure to new sports from all over the world. Sports that athletes pursued for the love of it, the challenges, not the money or the career. Sports that may not be known, available to watch or participate in locally. The Olympics used to broaden our awareness, aspirations, as well as provide some pretty exciting moments. The non-pro aspect has virtually been abandoned (maybe not) and money tends to reign. Money IS needed but seems to have taken the forefront lately & seems to do the most talking.
post #21 of 24
funny she goes longer than hte guys, whats to stop a country from putting her on a man's team. sure there are rules, but what are the specifically
post #22 of 24

Open Competition?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 911over View Post
And I might agree with you about picking an Olympic sport to be an Olympian, except ski jumping IS an Olympic sport. So is show jumping, men & women compete together in that one. No gender seperation there.
Like BWPA said, why not just open up the men's competition to everyone? Probably cheaper/easier than running a separate competition.
post #23 of 24
but then the men would sue if the women started beating them stating that the physical differences amounted to some unfair advantage. The women would probably do the same.
post #24 of 24

The Joy of Watching Water Polo

Quote:
Originally Posted by volantaddict View Post
Oh, you actually have a kid that wants to play water polo? It really is an excellent sport to watch IMO. It is also probably the most physically demanding sport of them all. Treading water in between 30M sprints for up to 15 minutes at a time? I can't even begin to fathom it. :
Sorry, I know this isn't the main topic but 911OVer, if you should ever end up having to watch water polo, as VA says, its pretty amazing!

I hear that if you ever see it played from the underwater perspective, it's really wild (one minute you see someone in the water and the next, they mysteriously disappear under water????).:

Sorry to get off topic.......................
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