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Not a skier, but looking for a perspective. - Page 3

post #61 of 71
I ATV a lot in the warmer months. To make a long story short, I'm very familiar with the battles that take place between the user groups; mainly motorized and non motorized. Each group has their proverbial "bad apples". What has bothered me and continues to do so is this constant attacking of anything with an engine. There are extremists/anti access people who want nothing with an engine to be allowed beyond the parkinglot.

Living in CT, I've seen what happens when motorized users are kicked out of legal riding areas. You have a state with close to 100k OHVs and no place to go. Guess what? Trespassing flourishes. "Well why don't they just ban the sales of OHVs?" Tell me what state legislator is going to give up the tax revenue on something that costs in the thousands of dollars….and thousands of units are sold a year. Not gonna happen.

I've done the advocacy, even spent some time at the helm of an OHV association in the state of CT. I get fed up with the anti access folks and their "my way, or the highway" attitude. Apparently, "compromise" isn't in their bag of tricks. I also got fed up with the politics of politics.
post #62 of 71
I attended two well 'attended' anti Wild Sky rallies, including the one when Pombo, from CA took a helicopter ride and confirmed that there were too many structures, culverts, bridges..... to classify this as "wilderness"

I don't expect I would have ever ridden there and those that could have, did not much because of the low elevation and ruggedness. "Very little open country for riding" Anyway, the concern for those opposing it was the chink in the armor it causes, allowing previously developed, multi use areas to be turned into Wilderness.

Thanks for the chance to air some frustrations and the comment above about having a backcountry ski/snowmbile outing is really a good one. There are a couple of places near our regular areas that might work out great for that.

I expect a few more rides either @ Baker or north @ Bear paw, then its back to boring summer until the snow flies.
post #63 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn J View Post
Living in CT, I've seen what happens when motorized users are kicked out of legal riding areas. You have a state with close to 100k OHVs and no place to go. Guess what? Trespassing flourishes. "Well why don't they just ban the sales of OHVs?" Tell me what state legislator is going to give up the tax revenue on something that costs in the thousands of dollars….and thousands of units are sold a year. Not gonna happen.
I doubt it has anything to do with tax revenue of the sale of machine. No one in their right mind would even THINK of baning the sale itself. Why shouldn't people be allowed to buy the machine? If only for use OUTSIDE the state on vacation!!!

It's not there's NO place to ride. It's just NOT ENOUGH places for all those 100k machines to roam freely. Not that different from the number of cars vs. the number of highway lanes in the morning rush hour! Trying to drive through your neighbors yard to get around the jam isn't going to endear you to thy neighbor.

The east coast is much more heavily populated than the west. So some of the favorate passtime of the west would not find the space in the east. That's just a way of life. Want your powder, live in the Rockies. Want your ATV, better live in the deserts. Trying to roam on ATV at CT seems to me just like craving for powder in CT. It aren't likely to happen. In fact, whatever the current status, it'll likely to get steadily worse.
post #64 of 71
This reminds me of all the stuff we made or rode as kids that had a motor on it . Motorbikes, mopeds, mini bikes and go carts. We rode them all the time and I never remember any trouble coming from it. Now you can't do that anymore ,
In some areas the time has come for sleds and other motorized RV's.. If I lived in South Dakota I could ride for miles with no impediment but the same can't be said for the much more populous areas of the East.
post #65 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by at_nyc View Post
I doubt it has anything to do with tax revenue of the sale of machine. No one in their right mind would even THINK of baning the sale itself. Why shouldn't people be allowed to buy the machine? If only for use OUTSIDE the state on vacation!!!

It's not there's NO place to ride. It's just NOT ENOUGH places for all those 100k machines to roam freely. Not that different from the number of cars vs. the number of highway lanes in the morning rush hour! Trying to drive through your neighbors yard to get around the jam isn't going to endear you to thy neighbor.

The east coast is much more heavily populated than the west. So some of the favorate passtime of the west would not find the space in the east. That's just a way of life. Want your powder, live in the Rockies. Want your ATV, better live in the deserts. Trying to roam on ATV at CT seems to me just like craving for powder in CT. It aren't likely to happen. In fact, whatever the current status, it'll likely to get steadily worse.
Connecticut passed a law in June of 1986 (yes, 22 years ago) stating that the CT Department of Environmental Protection will provide land for ATV (which in CT ATV is defined as a three, four or two wheeled OHC) use. Guess what hasn't happened yet?

Massachusetts has/had a pretty good working model. If you provide legal trails, it curbs tresspassing. But they keep shutting trails in Mass.

I'm getting way off topic here. This thread is about sledding and the backcountry. If my wife and I ever buy that little cabin up in Vermont some day, a sled is going to be on the list as well.
post #66 of 71
I don't understand the 100K comment? If sleds or other toys were 100k, there would not be many that could afford that.

Back on topic a little. This weekend, several fellow snowmbilers spent a couple of hours gathering garbage from a shared use parking site in WA. There was evidence of trash equally shared from all users, but the most disgusting were the several neatly tied up little plastic bags of dog poop. It is nice that they spent the time to collect it from the precious ski areas, then threw it in the ditch when they got back to the car. It was picked up and thrown in the trash bags just like the oil cans or beer cans, but clearly not many sledders take their dog for a ride!!!

Why can't we all just clean up after ourselves and show some respect to the out of doors!!!
post #67 of 71
100k is the number of OHV's currently estimated to be in CT. That doesn't include sleds. But that's neither here nor there....


I hear you on the waste. This spring, I noticed a lot of garbage on the mountain when skiing. Why people throw crap where they recreate is beyond me. I put my wrapers in my pockets when I'm done.
post #68 of 71
I think the difficulty comes for the motorized off road vehicles in 'justifying' their prescence in the woods. It is an easy argument that they are degrading the natural environment. This coupled with people simply not wanting them around their property, their kids, dogs etc. conspires against them. For politicians it's sort of a no brainer to restrict them unless there is a very strong lobby for them.

In terms of snowmobiles, this is why I suggested developing activities for the environment on snowmobiles and emphasizing positive aspects riders do.
post #69 of 71
Snowmobiles does less demage to the forest because they ride on snow. So they don't tear up the ground like ATV's do.

On the other hand, non-mechanized winter woods users are a jaded lot. They (we) go to the woods in the winter when it's not over-run by children and dogs. Holly cow, here comes snowmobile and the children and dogs again!!! (not to mention the noise).

I think in a perfect world, there should be some area open for snowmibil/ATV use and some not. The problem (in CT or southern NE particularly) is, the population is so dense there's really not enough woods for the non-motorised use. So where does one find the motorized 'zone' from?
post #70 of 71
I may be mistaken, but if I remember correctly, the west side of Seward Highway south of Girdwood is open to snomobiles, but the east side is not.

seemed pretty simple when I was there.
post #71 of 71
Quote:
The population is so dense there's really not enough woods for the non-motorised use. So where does one find the motorized 'zone' from? -at_nyc
Actually there's a fair amount of land for off road use in CT. and esp. also NJ.
Another problem though is fear of lawsuits by landowners so it's easier to just say no.
I didn't go through this site but here's one way to find a zone:
http://www.cttrailusers.com/
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