or Connect
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Off-Season Sports & The Lighter Side › General Sports › '08 Red Sox = Pretty Good Team
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

'08 Red Sox = Pretty Good Team

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
'08 Yankees = ... not so good.

How long until Hank Steinbrenner butts in and does something?

We're at the 50 game mark, the NYY are in the basement 7.5 games back... should they decide this is a good rebuilding year or make some moves? There is PLENTY of season left, but the starting rotation is, let's face it, BAD. I don't think it's gonna get better with time, Mussina and Pettitte are only getting older, they will probably both end up on the DL at some point this season. Wang is a great pitcher but he's out there alone. Chamberlin is 'getting stretched out' which could (should) mean a stint in AAA getting innings, that'll mean a bigger work load for the rest of the 'pen...

...So, what should be done?

Inquiring minds want to know.
post #2 of 17
Let's not get carried away with the "greatness" of Boston or I'm going to puke.: Yeah they've got a pretty good team right now but hopefully that won't continue. Besides, Matsusaka might be toast this year with shoulder problems. Papelbon got hammered and Beckett gave up like 7 runs the other day and still won!
The Yankees are only 5.5 games behind right now and that team from Boston is in 2nd! Everything's been somewhat bad, you can't win games when you only score 1-2 runs. Even Jeter got picked off leading on second base the other night - what's up with that?
But Giambi's starting to hit as is Cano and this is good. Arod is back.
Darrell Rasner pitching has been very good.
Kennedy terrible. Hughes not so good and injured always.
Farnsworth has been ok, actually pretty good at times but his name always inspires dread and a feeling of imminent loss.

It's too bad that Joba is going to be a starting pitcher. Since they're somewhat desperate right now it makes some sense but I think that whomever is captain of the S.S. Steinbrenner is as usual more like Joseph Hazelwood of the Exxon Valdez.
I guess right now it looks like they should've traded Kennedy and Hughes away for Santana though I still think it's good they didn't throw tons of money at the problem.

I don't trust Wang to be good at the end of the season which makes everything even worse. Mussina actually has been pretty good this year except for his Glavine like 7 runs in the first inning recently. Though I've never understood why the Yankees value him so much and resigned him for so long. He'll probably collapse too. I have much more faith in Pettite. Let's face it though, it's difficult to go out and buy pitchers esp. middle of season.

The current recent stats:
Ok, Boston lost 2 games to Seattle - one of the worst teams around!

Cheese Balls of Boston :
Streaks: L2
Last 10: 5-5
Home: 21-5 Road: 11-19
Runs Scored: 279
Runs Against: 246

New York's 3 Legged PureBred Dog Team:
Streaks: W1
Last 10: 6-4
Home: 14-12 Road: 12-15
Runs Scored: 236
Runs Against: 241
It's interesting that NY actually has less runs scored against.
post #3 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post
Let's not get carried away with the "greatness" of Boston
I agree: I think the RedSox are a "pretty good" team right now. Not great, just pretty good. They're a great home team but they are just awful on the road. I think they caught the Celtics "can't win on the road" bug

As for the yankees, well, they've been pretty bad. Let's face it, Jeter in on the descending part of his career curve. His fielding, despite his reputation, is among the worst for shortstops in the big leagues. Kennedy and Hughes haven't been bad, they've been abysmal. And now that Joba's coming into the starting rotation I'd expect to see a lot of 7th and 8th inning blown leads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post
Home: 14-12 Road: 12-15
Runs Scored: 236
Runs Against: 241
It's interesting that NY actually has less runs scored against.
I don't find the fact that the yankees are giving up more runs than scoring interesting whatsoever. Their pathagorean win percentage expectation given their runs scored/runs against numbers is 0.490. Their actual win percentage as of 5/30: 0.491. Don't get much closer than that...
post #4 of 17
Wow why don't you pull out a few more stats about how the best freakin team in the league sucks... NYYs slobber on diseased phallus. Get used to it. We northerners have known it for years, and you southerners still don't get it. You're the princess bride of the league and its about time your cockiness shot you in the foot. Thinking you're the best is a douche move. Wake up. Your team sucks. Arod and Giambi? Please. Overpaid deepthroaters. The one stat about Giambi I love is his "hit by the most pitches" title that has nothing to do with skill and everything to do with crowding the plate. Boston? A bunch of idiots who are just having a great time kicking everyone's asses. Got a problem with it? Try out for the Yankees. Maybe YOU can provide some team spirit and cohesion, because they have the roster, just no soul. Highest paid and lowest delivering team in MLB. And it's not me making it up, now is it?

You can pick and choose what stats to use to put your team in a favorable light which I can recognize and respect as you are obviously a die-hard fan but it all boils down to the fact that the Yankees have destroyed THEMSELVES! I love it. Every day and twice on Sundays, in fact.

Seattle? Everyone knows Boston has a bad habit of not showing up to play crappy teams. Uh, so what? You want us to parade all the Yankees' losses? There's plenty of those.

The Yanks can lean on all their old rings all they want, cuz the fact remains that they haven't taken a championship this MILLENIA. Your seat's getting cold, maybe you should warm it back up.
post #5 of 17
WHOA! Celtics can't win on the road? Dude, these are the playoffs. Point your finger at a team that has a better road record. You won't find one. Who's one game away from the finals? That's what I thought. Pointing your finger at the Celts and using them as a poor example is reaching. Mr. Fantastic style. Where's Lebron? Home sipping hot cocoa. I'll tell you what- The celts have soul. They care. Look at KG's face. He'd kill you with his bare hands if that's what it took to bring home the championship. He plays with heart and intensity. No team has come farther in '08, and it's no mystery why. Sorry if I'm bashing randomly here, but I feel great about the Celts, it's been a long time coming for sure and no city is more deserving of a basketball championship title IMHO.
post #6 of 17
Whoa, easy DoWork. Big Celtics fan myself (and sox for that matter-- grew up in Boston). Just pointing out the Celtics haven't been great on the road (1 road win this post season compared to, say, the Lakers 4(?)). I feel good about the celtics, too. But you have to admit that you feel better about them at the Garden than on the road.

Back to the topic at hand: bashing the Yankees...
post #7 of 17
Obviously, djl. Glad to hear you're on board . Sorry I'm fired up, this is what I was fightin' about with my cousin at lunch today so I'm already doing 120. I'm just saying that at this point in the season, you can't expect to have a great road record. (when I was pointing at road records, I meant better on the road then at home, not overall road wins) Note to all- don't bash my boys. They've come a long way and I'll get thrown outta here before I'll let somebody discount their achievements.

Now about those Spankees...
post #8 of 17
Quote:
I don't find the fact that the yankees are giving up more runs than scoring interesting whatsoever -djl
djl, I was referring to the fact the Yankees have given up less runs than the RedSox not themselves.

DoWork, I thought you were going to start arguing for Tampa Bay or something. Are you actually a Boston Fan? It's hard to tell.

I know, you're praying the Celts do better than the Bruins or uh...BC football at the end.

Quote:
We northerners have known it for years, and you southerners still don't get it.
Didn't realize the Mason-Dixon line was somewhere near Hartford,CT. Of course that would make sense given the preponderence of lame Red Sox fans east of the Ct. river and north of Hartford. Don't forget that Mass is really a blue state though.

What do the southerners not get? That Boston hasn't been great for decades and decades? Congrats on getting over selling the Bambino by the way...Also on not complaining anymore about how cheap a payroll you have. Yeah, such a poor team...Let's put some seats out on the street too.

Surprised you didn't sell Lowell. Management wanted to but there'd be rioting in the streets up there with people throwing cheese steaks. By the way, Philly owns the cheese steak... Y'all should try clam strips...

God had they done that Red Sox fans might have to shave their beards. Truly ghastly, what would they do to show that they're fans? Have the Drop Kick Murphys play at their weddings and family clam bakes? Maybe they'd really score and have Papelbon "dance" there too. wow, can't wait. Just don't invite Beckett if you've got daughters...

Quote:
His fielding, despite his reputation, is among the worst for shortstops in the big leagues.
I believe your talking about Lugo? Oh, wait, that's right, he's never had a reputation for doing anything well...

Quote:
The one stat about Giambi I love is his "hit by the most pitches" title that has nothing to do with skill and everything to do with crowding the plate.
Giambi hit by pitches?
Listen, I actually like Youkilis apart from his ridiculous batting stance and idiotic beard, but all he does is complain and whine when he gets hit by pitches - which is a lot.

ok let's take 2006 for Giambi and 07 for Youkilis since they played nearly the same #games those years.
Giambi: hit 16 times, intentional walks 12 , games 139 atbats 446
Youkilis: hit 15 times, intentional walks: 0 ,games 145 atbats 528

this year:
Youkilis: hit 1 time, with 1 int. walk 193 atbats
Giambi: hit 7 times, 2 int. walks 135 at bats

So ok, Youkilis is getting hit less right now and Giambi more. What do you want for getting off steroids?
post #9 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post
djl, I was referring to the fact the Yankees have given up less runs than the RedSox not themselves.
Oh, I see. Now that you mention it that is pretty interesting given the Kennedy/Hughes flop at the beginning of the season. I would probably say that's due in large part to the red sox atrocious bullpen performance thus far.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post
I believe your talking about Lugo? Oh, wait, that's right, he's never had a reputation for doing anything well...
You won't catch me defending Lugo. Ever. I would be happy if they DFA'd the bum immediately. But you're absolutely right-- no one ever claimed Lugo was good on defense. He was supposed to bring a decent bat to the sox lineup and provide average defense (he has not done either).

My point was about Jeter being overrated defensively. And he is overrated. Check out this Posnanski column on Jeter. Any non-baised reader I think would agree with his premice. Though, admittedly, I'm not un-biased. But neither are Yankees fans when it comes to recognizing his defensive limitations. Hero worship has surely blinded them.
post #10 of 17
Tog, I was talking about walking around like your team is king sh-- because they have almost every major name in the game, which if you weren't paying attention at the end of last season, the Yanks' dick waving got their dong caught in the front spoke of the wheels of the bike they were on. Yeah, Boston sucked for decades, and guess what... Now it's your turn. Several years ago called and they want their undeserved sense of accomplishment back.
post #11 of 17
even as a huge Sox fan i have to say that they've been pretty disappointing this year - they can't win away from fenway, and the 'pen has been inconsistent at best ... and even though Dice is undefeated ... he's out w/ a shoulder for >15 days, and honestly hasn't pitched that well except for a couple games and has gotten away with good support.
post #12 of 17
That Posnaski article is lame, sorry. No info there at all. Besides, he's an idiot about hero worshipping of Jeter. Jeter is not known for being a playboy or living large. He's not vocal like Reggie Jackson was and he actually gets criticized for not being more vocal off the field about certain things. His commercials are almost painful, so let's pray he doesn't try acting. Yeah his errors get overlooked but part of that is because he's made a lot of great plays. Posnaski should give me the stats about how bad of a shortstop he is if you're going to start squawking so much.

Ok sure NY fans are obnoxious but Boston's are almost as bad and in many ways worse. They got lucky too with Colorado showing up comatose from such a long a break. Boston fans did nothing but berate CO about how bad they were, the NL sucks etc. I'm sure Stephen King was all happy but he should stick to fiction instead of writing about well Fenway and the team, and basically nothing. I was tortured having to listen to that book because a very good friend wanted to hear it - so boring. Perhaps he had something to do with that bird that attacked a visiting child at Fenway this year.

Cheers on the "forgiveness and acceptance" of Bill Buchner by the way. Only took 22 years and probably wouldn't have happened if the Cheese Balls hadn't won a couple of World Series titles. Let's see, Boston could've beaten the Mets in the next game but no, let's blame one guy for losing the whole series and their shot at the title.

I suppose George Mitchell had something to do with the change. Ok, I respect his accomplishments - particularly when he left office but god I've never been able to stand his public speeches. He made Regan look like JFK or ML King with his rebuttal speeches when he was in Congress. His whole "we are but repenting downtrodden sinners of the world trying hard..." Hmmm, no wonder he got hooked up with that "northern" team up there. I'm sure he says "I can die happy now that my boys have won".

Boston meanwhile has moved way on having sued all the priests he grew up with and been awarded millions.

Let's see, NY fans could've blamed Mariano for blowing that game against Boston when they were up 3-0 in the series and collapsed pathetically to lose 4 in a row.

I hear that Dice K is now on the DL... This is probably good for Boston if he comes back because he can't handle the US season length yet anyway.

djl, what are those stats you referred to? Pretty much in kindergarten here as far as stats are concerned.
post #13 of 17
That Jeter is a poor defensive shortstop is hardly controversial. Far less controversial than, say, his golden glove awards. Furthermore, this is hardly a new concept. Some articles for your consideration:

Neyer 2001
Another Neyer article, revisiting the 2001 article
Bill James (yes, i know, a red sox guy. But a highly respected statistician)

and lest you think I can't cite any "yankee" sources, here's an article from one of the biggest yankee fan sites, nyyfans

Some choice quotes from the nyyfans article:

Quote:
Over the past few years, there have been a number of defensive metrics churned out by various sabermetricians. Although they may differ in methodology in regards to how the arrive at their conclusions, the conclusions are always the same when it comes to Derek Jeter.

Derek Jeter is a very bad defensive shortstop.

This is not new information. At least it should not be to anyone who has a passing interest in baseball. To be honest, I feel the need to point this out at least twice a year. What I find so curious is that many of Jeter’s defensive supporters actually think he is a good shortstop[....]

[T]he plain fact is Jeter has never been very good defensively, and he is actually getting worse.
The article discusses one particular method of statistically evaluating defense. Jeter is second to last out of all major league shortstops.

Now, there is some controversy about the ability of statistics to evaluate a player's defensive ability. But all of the current methods agree: Jeter isn't even average. He is a BAD defensive shortstop.

The sooner yankee fans admit this to themselves, the sooner they can move him to first base. Or right field.
post #14 of 17
Admit their golden boy is no longer??? *GASP!!!*

Jeter is a class act, I'll give him that. But he is the face of the Yankees and when they suck AND he is starting to suck more and more... Guess what- It might get noticed.

Tog supposedly wants hard evidence, but then falls back to include diddler priests, Bill Buckner and yes, even Steven King and the goddam bird that attacked the stupid kid. Do you have anything real to bring to this table or are you going to say how much you hate socks and the color red too?? To answer your question, yeah CT does kinda look like the mason-dixon line of baseball fans.

You know who cries about Papelbon's dance or other garbage like that? A sore loser. Sorry your team isn't the powerhouse it's fans think it is or should be. Put down the haterade!
post #15 of 17
Thread Starter 
The point of this thread was intended to be:

Will the Yankees front office/ Ownership sit back and let the Yankees 'develop young talent' for a year, a year of not competing, or will they make some moves? I have a feeling that the Steinbrenner's aren't paying for a last place team.

As for the Red Sox not being good...

seems to me that there is a long line of Minor League talent waiting in the wings for a chance to play. Dice K on the DL means there is a spot in the rotation to bring Clay Buckholtz back, or Justin Masterson can get another start. There is a lot of baseball left to be played, but this years Sox are a VERY deep team.
post #16 of 17
Quote:
You know who cries about Papelbon's dance or other garbage like that? A sore loser. Sorry your team isn't the powerhouse it's fans think it is or should be. Put down the haterade! -Dowork
Hey, we're just having fun here. It's not sore losing, more like observing the scene from a passing car at the Wild Kingdom.
As for the Jeter articles, at least those say something in them instead of the guy trying to be creative and failing.

So Joba is going to start pitching on Tues.
Possibly Ramirez can pick up some of the hole left. He's good but also has a tendency to get hammered.
Will the SS Steinnbrenner pull into port to buy players?
They're going to start screaming at some point since they made themselves look like baby's with the whole Torre saga last year. They bought themselves a year with Girardi. If things go bad Cashman is gone. Aren't they already pissed he didn't want Santana? Of course they can play both sides, if the whole Kennedy/Hughes thing had worked out it's ok, and if they'd gotten Santana well, he's Santana. The Mets haven't done an about face though with him.

Tampa Bay may be ready to have a tag sale before the deadline. Their pitching is doing quite well.

So who ya going to buy?
What's up with Scott Kazmir, was he injured this year?
post #17 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post
It's not sore losing, more like observing the scene from a passing car at the Wild Kingdom.

Thanks alot, now I have to clean the Guinness off my keyboard! You're funny, even if you do have crap taste in teams.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Sports
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Off-Season Sports & The Lighter Side › General Sports › '08 Red Sox = Pretty Good Team