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Skis that are NOT made in China  

post #1 of 183
Thread Starter 
I did some research and found that companies like K2 and Volkl (<---correct me if I'm wrong) produced their skis in China, which may or may not be inferior quality compared to their past products made in the USA and Germany, but I am reluctant to buy a pair of skis that has the stamp "Made in China" on it.

It's irrational, I know, it goes against the past threads I've read addressing the misconceptions of the "Made in China" bias, but I just can't erase all the bad memories of poorly constructed, defective products from the East... and I will certainly not buy any skis that are made in China... not the Gotamas, not the PEs.

It's hard for me to identify which companies currently make their skis in China (so I can avoid them like the plague), because they rarely stamp the production locale of their skis if it is indeed made in China.

Focus: Given that many companies are moving their operation overseas, which ones are still making their skis outside of China? References (links) are appreciated.

My '08 Salomon X-Wing Furies are made in Romania.

My '08 Elan GSX are made in Slovenia... Elan is starting to become my favorite company...

I know Dynastar still make their skis in the Chamonix Valley... I love my '08 NTBs.
post #2 of 183
Hart!
Blizzard :
post #3 of 183
Perhaps to remove yourself from the enigma of not buying skis because they are made in China, you could try reversing your statement and saying you'll only buy skis made in America. Being as your'e from Seattle.

I don't quite understand what is different between China, Romania, and Slovenia in your post other than some potential ethnic slur. Welcome to Epic, and with that, let's be careful here. I'm quite willing to bet that many of your clothes and household items were made in China. To imply that China can't make skis is opening yourself up for this thread becoming a GIGANTIC debate/nightmare that will never actually answer your inquistion.

I'm sure you have your reasons for not wanting to buy made-in-China products. And- I respect that. But you can't be a member of the free-world where Equality is forced down your throat and not subject yourself to actually adhering to such measures. Therefore, to avoid that enigma all-together, let's just say that you'd like to buy made-in-America products to support your local economy. There, now it's political.

Some American companies might include PmGear and Praxis. They are hand-made in Nevada and have quite the cult following of providing bomber quality.

I'm sure many others will jump into this thread very shortly. But- let's all understand that this is NOT going to become one of "those" threads.

(I give it 2 pages before it becomes an argument. Anything after page 2 should just be ignored as it won't apply to the OP's request.)
post #4 of 183
Skis (and I believe most products) need to have some sort of labeling from their country of construction.
post #5 of 183
I like to have things that are made places other than China just cause:
A) They probably won't be available or already are no longer available so they are "collectors' items"
B) I feel better knowing that a 7 year old didn't lose any fingers making it.

Overall quality differencea are arguable either way, sme things are better, some things are crap.

But in the end, like most other folks my actual buying behavior is based on price all other things considered.
post #6 of 183
Off the top of my head you'll want to avoid:

K2, Volkl, Liberty, DPS, Line, is Black Diamond now made in PRC?

Skis you can buy:

4frnt, Atomic, Armada, Blizzard, Dynastar, Elan, Fischer, Head, Icelantic, Kastle, Movement, Moment, Nordica, Ninthward, Rossignol, Scott, Stockli, Volant
post #7 of 183
See?

It's already starting. An EpicSki moderator/Ski-Industry developer focused on country-of-construction before answering your request.

Good luck, mate. This thread was doomed the moment you clicked post.

Sorry about that.

You should start over.
post #8 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by samurai View Post
See?

It's already starting. An EpicSki moderator/Ski-Industry developer focused on country-of-construction before answering your request.

Good luck, mate. This thread was doomed the moment you clicked post.

Sorry about that.

You should start over.
I don't understand the angst. The Question and Focus are being answered just fine.
I, for one agree with Phil that skis should have the place of construction somewhere on the ski, but besides that, such an opinion doesn't take away from the discussion of the quality of answers.

Breath in love, breath out peace.
post #9 of 183
Another classic EpicSki thread!
post #10 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekchick View Post
I, for one agree with Phil that skis should have the place of construction somewhere on the ski
actually, it's required by law. title 19 of the u.s. code of federal regulations part 134 to be exact.
post #11 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by samurai View Post
Some American companies might include PmGear and Praxis. They are hand-made in Nevada and have quite the cult following of providing bomber quality.
Actually, most PM Gear skis currently are manufactured by AK Skis in Switzerland, with a small number manufactured at HQ in Reno, Nevada. And Praxis are manufactured in the Sierra Nevada, but in Truckee, California. (I own two pairs of PM Gear skis -- one made in Canada and the other in Reno -- and a pair of Praxis that I picked up in the Truckee factory, hot off the press.)

That said, I'm not sure that the "China != quality" equation works; there are enough exceptions that the rule is, at very least, sorely tested. The best example I can think of at the moment is Black Diamond. Until this past season, BD's skis were manufactured in Europe (by Atomic, IIRC), and were generally considered good lightweight touring (AT or tele) skis. This season, after BD opened its own factory in China and switched from foam to wood cores, the skis have been getting raves and are starting to break into the fixed heel market. How much of that is due to quality construction and how much to the wood core redesign, I couldn't tell you. And obviously, there's only one year of data, so the jury is still out on long-term durability. But the signs are definitely good.
post #12 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by epl View Post
actually, it's required by law. title 19 of the u.s. code of federal regulations part 134 to be exact.
I thought that there was something along those lines. Ski manufactures will source skis from various counties even within their own product line. You need to look at each individual model to see the country. So not all Volkls are from China, some are still built in Germany (I think, and will surely be corrected if incorrect). Many manufacturers, including us (Hart) are looking at all alternatives for getting product as much for profitability as well as being price competitive without loosing quality.
post #13 of 183
i don't think that that chinese made gear is necessarily of poorer quality than from any other country, but the manufacturers sure aren't passing on the savings to the customer. i mean arc'teryx has started moving their production to china and a jacket or pant from them is still $400, just like when it was made in canada.
post #14 of 183
I even took the time in my first post to iterate how fragile of a conversation this is.

14 posts, not even one page, and it's already an argument. I've been PM'ed by two moderators so far to lay off my attacks.

It's like walking on egg shells.

Does anyone here honestly disagree?
post #15 of 183
Here's a link that looks like you can drill down to find some made in USA skis: http://www.backcountryworld.com/showthread.php?t=4099

As for the debate about made in china, if it's a quality concern then in theory the company that owns the brand is responsible for spec'ing a good ski, and finding a manufacturer that can build it to spec if they don't want to build it themselves. In theory, a good manufacturer in china should be able to consistently build the ski to spec -- in practice, quality control sometimes fails and there is a perception that it fails more often in china than it does in other developing nations that are eager to build stuff for "more advanced" nations.
post #16 of 183
Add Goode to the list of made in China.
Add Goode to the list random quality.

Saying "made in" is not that simple. The Goode's are finished in the US.

What happens when the meth lab next to the "ski factory" at that "trailer park" in Nevada goes up?

Calling this thread classic after not even 1 page! Totally Premature! :
post #17 of 183
touche
post #18 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post

What happens when the meth lab next to the "ski factory" at that "trailer park" in Nevada goes up?
For the record, PMGear's stateside ski presses, warehouse, and offices have been in a business park near the Reno airport for nearly 2 years now.

The adjacent meth lab in the old trailer park was indeed too dangerous so the decision to move further away was made
post #19 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
For the record, PMGear's stateside ski presses, warehouse, and offices have been in a business park near the Reno airport for nearly 2 years now.

The adjacent meth lab in the old trailer park was indeed too dangerous so the decision to move further away was made
But not so far as to disrupt easy access to hookers 'n' blow, right?
post #20 of 183
I realise that toys != skis but China's recent blunders within the toy industry and apparent lack of care that may toys are actually dangerous (eg. lead in paint etc.) have to make you wonder how much they really care about quality which comes after health and safety on importance.

It certainly does not inspire confidence.
post #21 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by epl View Post
i don't think that that chinese made gear is necessarily of poorer quality than from any other country, but the manufacturers sure aren't passing on the savings to the customer. i mean arc'teryx has started moving their production to china and a jacket or pant from them is still $400, just like when it was made in canada.
The demand didn't change, and if they set up their offshore infrastructure correctly, neither did supply. Price stays the same - profit margin goes up.
post #22 of 183
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post
Skis you can buy:
Armada
I'm preparing to buy another park ski, most likely the Armada AR6. Can anybody who own Armadas tell me if their skis has a manufacturing locale stamp on it?

... I heard that Armada products are manufactured in Austria, true?
post #23 of 183
Armada is made by Elan (I think...) in Slovenia.

Elan makes skis for A LOT of 'small' ski companies, and a few not so small manufacturers, so does Fischer (in Austria).
post #24 of 183
I think US consumers had better wake up and smell the coffee. China is a new player on the international manufacturing scene, and there is no doubt that many consumers question the current quality of goods made there. However due to low labor costs, the Chinese manufacturing industry will only grow, and quality is likely to improve as they learn to compete in a global market. In 10 years time they will be a leading economic force in the world. On the other hand, US manufacturing has been in decline for years, not necessarily in terms of quality, but in quantity, as US manufacturing jobs are exported to cheaper labor markets.

In short, the Chinese are becoming a force to be reckoned with; and they certainly aren’t foolish, as demonstrated by their understanding of currency markets, the dollar’s reserve status, and the love affair the US has with debt. The US is deeply in debt to China, to a point where we may not be able to inflate our way out, which is one reason China has pegged their currency to the dollar.
post #25 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by NE1 View Post
The demand didn't change, and if they set up their offshore infrastructure correctly, neither did supply. Price stays the same - profit margin goes up.
Profits are evil. Someone should come up with a system where the government controls supply and demand and production so everybody can have stuff equally. And ponies run free in the streets! And beer comes out of faucets!
post #26 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by billyymc View Post
Profits are evil. Someone should come up with a system where the government controls supply and demand and production so everybody can have stuff equally. And ponies run free in the streets! And beer comes out of faucets!

Commie, pinko faggot I didn't think you could say those things in the USofA! Careful, who's that at the door......
post #27 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by billyymc View Post
Profits are evil. Someone should come up with a system where the government controls supply and demand and production so everybody can have stuff equally. And ponies run free in the streets! And beer comes out of faucets!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squawker View Post
Commie, pinko faggot I didn't think you could say those things in the USofA! Careful, who's that at the door......
Thanks for the laugh!
post #28 of 183
Quote:
On the other hand, US manufacturing has been in decline for years, not necessarily in terms of quality, but in quantity, as US manufacturing jobs are exported to cheaper labor markets. -Festus
nice post Festus
People should watch "Is Walmart Good for America" with Hedrick Smith (yes the Russian writing guy) before they contemplate their next box store buying.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/

Quote:
For the record, PMGear's stateside ski presses, warehouse, and offices have been in a business park near the Reno airport for nearly 2 years now.

The adjacent meth lab in the old trailer park was indeed too dangerous so the decision to move further away was made -tyrone shoelaces
Well I can sleep better now knowing they're not about to disappear.
post #29 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Festus View Post
I think US consumers had better wake up and smell the coffee. China is a new player on the international manufacturing scene, and there is no doubt that many consumers question the current quality of goods made there. However due to low labor costs, the Chinese manufacturing industry will only grow, and quality is likely to improve as they learn to compete in a global market. In 10 years time they will be a leading economic force in the world. On the other hand, US manufacturing has been in decline for years, not necessarily in terms of quality, but in quantity, as US manufacturing jobs are exported to cheaper labor markets.

In short, the Chinese are becoming a force to be reckoned with; and they certainly aren’t foolish, as demonstrated by their understanding of currency markets, the dollar’s reserve status, and the love affair the US has with debt. The US is deeply in debt to China, to a point where we may not be able to inflate our way out, which is one reason China has pegged their currency to the dollar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post
nice post Festus
People should watch "Is Walmart Good for America" with Hedrick Smith (yes the Russian writing guy) before they contemplate their next box store buying.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/


Well I can sleep better now knowing they're not about to disappear.
Lets keep all the posts SKI related and not bring in general political and business practices into the discussion.
post #30 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
Lets keep all the posts SKI related and not bring in general political and business practices into the discussion.
Unless anyone has any evidence whatsoever that skis manufactured in China are of intrinsically lower quality than those manufactured elsewhere, the entire thread is a "political and business practices" thread. Starting at post 1.

So thrilled to have posted in this important thread...
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