Skiing your age - Page 2

I thought about starting to use crutches while skiing......

A friend often repeated, "I really want to huck a 50 footer on my 50th birthday".

I'm really glad he was talked out of it

It will be interesting to see what he wants to do if he's still skiing at 100

TOG, I love the Mayer pictures!

Another approach to aging and skiing.

A few years ago I was riding a slow chair with a 75 year old gentleman who was on a snowboard. I asked him how long he had been boarding and he said a few years. I asked why was he a boarder and he said he skied for 50 years. His family skied. His kids located in Colorado from Michigan because they like the ski life style so much. He retired to Colorado to be close to his kids and close to the mountains.
Over time he only skied with "kids" half his age. He loved to ski fast because it was challenging to him. He seldom skied with his wife or friends his age. The last run of the last day of a recent season he took a bad fall, hit something, and was Medivaced to Denver via helicopter. He almost died. He took months to recover. The next year he started Snowboard lessons. He's now challenged at a much slower speeds than he was accustomed to with skis. He's challenged without flying down the hill with a group of 20 somethings. He said he now regualarly snowboards with his wife and friends on skis. He still enjoys being on the mountain and now enjoys boarding at the speed they are skiing. He enjoys their company more than the "kids" he was skiing with for several years past. He enjoys the challenge presented by his new sport, snowboading.
This man was a genius. He recognized that a big part of this sport is the challenge and he was able to renew the challenge and retain all the great mountain experiences he had enjoyed for over 50 years!

Last year at Aspen proper (Ajax) we were in a gondola with a guy who was 84 and still skiing. He had also been in the 10th Mountain Division. That's one of the great things about Aspen - there's still lot's of history there.

Do people buy different skis when they get older?

I am 50 and have been on Mid Fat and GS Race skis since I started
skiing at 33. I was wondering if people who skied Race and other
"Expert" catagoury skis still skied them as they got older.

I can't speak for everybody and I haven't reached the point where physical limitations come into play, but psychologically I've reached the point where I want to do more than race down the hill. I find I still ski the race skis, but now ski other skis as well. I've broadened out the quiver. My race skis only feel really good at ridiculous speeds, and I want to ski slowly and enjoy the scenery at times.

On my first trip to CO I had the pleasure of staying in a condo with a gentleman in his mid/late 70s. A very interesting fellow, he was a retired math/astronomy prof at the U/M, he had spent a number of years in South America...I can't recall what country...working on a giant telescope project or something. While there he built the country's first ski lift and became a coach for the national ski team.

A few years prior to this ski trip Fred had suffered a closed head injury and had trouble speaking but the fire in his eyes and in his soul still burned bright bright bright. He would struggle to make a point and encourage you to finish it for him. When you caught on to his line of thought he would smile broadly and say, "YES!", the one word that came easily for him.

This was a group trip with lots of college kids and I think Fred played up his mobility problems in order to have the young kids carry his gear and fetch his skis while he stayed in the lift line. I remember one time he and I were right up front in the lift line waiting for the chairs to start loading. Right behind us was a throng of teenage girls. When Fred's skis arrived he, for some reason, had big trouble stepping into the bindings and before long there were three of the girls kneeling before him guiding his boots into his bindings as he looked down attentively. When his second boot clicked successfully into his ski the girls stood up gleefully and each in turn gave him a big hug. It was then that he looked over at me and gave me a sly smile and a wink.

He had a lot of fun on his way down the mountain too

Ott, Your absouletly right...I remember we talked about Ann...There are SYNVISC injections that sometimes work --for a while...talk to your orthopod...they are one shot a week for three weeks..They seem to enhance the miniscus...they worked for me for about 3-weeks...some people say they work for a year or so....ultimately I became bionic.....
When I`m moving I`m not aware of speed or pitch that can`t be handled---
afterwards, I`m thinking "OH S..t. hope all is well with you and Ann..let me know the next time you are at the MTN........regards, Larry

Larry, Ann got five shots, one a week of Hyalgan, same thing, in November, they had absolutely no mitigating effect. The doctor told her that one third of folks get great help from them, another third get some help and the last third none. Ann got none. She has arthritis in the knee from prior injuries.

Knees wear out as you get old. Many in middle age wear soft braces, then the knees have to be iced after a day's skiing, then maybe hard braces (which Ann has) then limiting the time of skiing to an hour or two a day and finally quitting.

And we could never believe it could happen to us. Well it does. If it isn't the knee or hip it is the stamina or sight or fear of falling and getting injured.

Luckily for me, I am physically healthy and have many activities and hobbies, many of them more important to me than skiing. I ski because it's there and I have always done it in winter and I'm good at it. I'm trying to keep the excitement up about skiing but without Ann, my ski buddy for 53 years who could ski any and all terrain and condition it is becoming an effort to keep myself psyched up.

This sounds more negative than I meant it to be, sorry.

....Ott

Ok, this is my story:
Started ski racing at 51 (when I could only do stepped turns) out of curiosity and to fight the coming old age.
Now, at 59, I ski 40-55 days, do about 10 GS races per year and my points are in the 200s.
Am I particularly healthy or fit? No; I have no background in sports and my health is less than ideal (I am a physician); although I pass my yearly sports medicine check, I suffer from:
- hypertension
- being grossly overweight
- hypercholesterolemia
- liver steatosis
- gout
- cardiac arrhitmias
- two discal hernias
For these problems, I take 6 drugs every day. From next year, when I move into the easier "over 60" class, I want to increase my training days and try also SG and SL. I want to bring my points well below 200.
Do you think I am stupid?

>>>Do you think I am stupid?<<<

Well, son, I don't think you are stupid, if it is worth to you to push yourself like that, you have my blessing. Since ski racing is just a game like all other sports, the satisfaction of putting up a personal best is great but it often matters little to others.

Some skiers get satisfaction from hucking cliffs, others from leisurely moseying down a groomed cruiser, whatever suits your style, who is to say one is better than the other.

Since I have never been sick in my life and never had to take any medication and don't now, I have to ask you how in heavens name did acquire all these ailments, they seem a lot for a young guy like you.

.....Ott

"the satisfaction of putting up a personal best is great but it often matters little to others"

Very true. I am sorry, I did not mean to show off. Your comment made me think why on earth I felt the need to post my experience.

My main point is that I have seen that doing competitive sports, is possible to motivated people whose age and health would have made it unthinkable in the past, and wished to share this. The open issues are whether it may be further damaging one's health and whether it is in any way good, other than psychologically.
In Europe, where I live, there is a growing number of old (difficult to define how healthy) people participating in competitions, a situation similar to that of disabled people.
How did I acquire all these ailments, you ask? 70% from heredity; my only personal contribution is eating a little too much.

Thank you for your reply, Ott: in a kind way, you answered my question.

Missile, please keep posting, I in no way found your post as showing off, rather as sharing your situation, which may inspire some folks around here, thinking: If that guy can do, maybe I should try.

Setting a goal and going after it, within your limits, is a challenge and fun, even if you don't achieve it. Of the 10,000 runners at the Boston marathon there is only one winner and the rest are losers (?) but if they are not running only to win (and feel defeated if they do not, why even try in the face of competition,) it is for personal satisfaction.

So I wish you luck, and in training for that goal you might even remedy some of your ailments. By the way, my health is also hereditary since both of my parents lived to be 90 without ever having a serious illness, I guess I'm lucky, yet injuries which eventually will manifest themselves in debilitating arthritis or joint failure can sideline any of us.

.....Ott

Missile : Welcome and as MR. Gangl ( an inspiration to all here ) says please keep posting .You have much to share and this is a GOOD bunch here at Epic

Having just turned 65 this month i try to focus on what i can do rather than what i can't do . Skiing to me since i started downhill @ 51 and XC @ 35 is energizing and the freedom and enjoyment of participating in it with friends is special

My special reward is now "making memories" with my four grandchildren ages 8-13 and their parents when we ski together usually about a week a yr . That will sustain me later when the time comes that i no longer can no longer participate . Until that day comes i will "milk the magic" of this sport with enthusiam

Growing old or old and growing?

Thank you both. I do not post here (but I will) because I am not totally confortable with my written English. However, I can read well, and indeed I confirm that Mr Gangl is inspiring, also to me. He called me "son" although "brother" would be more appropriate: my now defunct father (a skier in the 1920s and 30s) was born in 1906!
Since he was an excellent skier and swimmer and fencer (with very little patience as a teacher) I detested these sports, and never wanted to learn them. As it happens, when I reached my 40s, I started to be interested in his sports, and now I love skiing.

What do I get from competition in ski (and tennis)?:
1. Something to think of with pleasure, on and off, all year long. I keep a diary with my goals, performances, notes, bills (!) etc, which is in itself something I enjoy reading every now and then.
2. The reason for understanding the technicalities, the current trends, etc, so that I can talk to my son on equal terms.
3. The pleasure to train with my son, leave home with him when it is dark, being able to question him when he is half asleep and more prone to disclose interesting things, to race the same course (and be beaten, much to his pleasure).
4. The reason to set goals, to train, to improve, to re-set goals
5. The social aspects: friends, celebrations, travels.
6. The justification for buying unnecessary pairs of skis, waxes, etc. which are nice to look at at regular intervals.

Seriously, as I said, I am interested in the pros/cons of "competitive sports for older people with chronic disease".
Along these lines, in the newspaper today a whole page was dedicated to such people. :
- Min Bahadur Shercan, age 77, who is now coming down after conquering Mount Everest (beating a younger japanese climber, a Mr Yanagisawa, age 71, who held the record)
- Buster Martin, age 101 (and a heavy drinker), who completed the 42km London marathon, last april in about 10 hours
- Ottavio Missoni, age 87 (the fashion designer), who regularly competes in various athletic disciplines
- Michel Fournier, age 64, who will jump from 40000 metres
- Piero Paci, age 89, who has climbed the Gran Sasso mountain, in Italy.
I would love to know something about their attitudes, expectations, methods.
How's that?

I'm sure you know why you read about these people in the newspaper, they are the exception, you do not read about the thousands who DON"T do these things at that age.

It usually just happens, you get at a certain age and you are either the exception or not. Though there seem to be more and more of us old folks who still ski, of the many hundreds who were around at my age of forty have dwindled to just a handful.

But with your attitude you are on the way to be the exception, keep it up.

By the way, your English is flawless.

....Ott

Older Skiers

Tog, thanks for the pics, stayed at St. Bernard in 1970 and skied with Jean a really great week of skiing.

I am an old fart too. No cliff hucking for me but love to ski. Really have concentrated on off piste stuff and am improving. Raced for 23 yrs in just amateur stuff and although I do ski fast I really don't bomb top to bottom continually like some. Skied yesterday and had one heck of a year here in Northern Idaho, Still 6-8 feet of snow on hill at Silver Mt.

Even though I am humbled at times (i.e., skiing with Ski Merlin 2 weeks ago) I still really enjoy OUR sport. Maybe looking into the future makes me realize my Future is statistically going to be shorter than most but maybe that is what make me appreciate the ambience, snow, forests, sky, mountains more than others. Appreciation is very rewarding and comfortable in its own right.

Also, although I am not the best it is true that I and a lot of You are certainly in the upper echelon of skiers, on a mountain, on any given day. Thats is rewardinbg and fulfilling to know. And here's to as many more great winters as possible.

Technically I'm not an "old", but at 43 and 3 years after heart surgery I've been delighted to "just ski" this winterseason, somewhat consistently ( a whole 7 days!!!) putting in one night skiing too (a novelty and a "to do" thing here in the Alps).
I don't count neither mph, nor how many runs I ski. I just revel in skiing and feel blessed I still can.
Anyhow, as many have said, the trick is to ski efficiently, to keep our energy dispersion at a minimum and enable us to, as tog picture shows, last.

skiing a long time

Nobody, great post, I don't count days, v ertical, runs or anything else either, just enjoy.

Ott, your comments are wise as always, but:
1. The definition of what is normal or exceptional for age is evolving; more and more "exceptions" become "normal". Normality has to do with frequency: if more and more people do something, then it becomes "normal".
2. Being involved in sports improves health and the quality of life of old people, and that is good, but is interpreted very conservatively.
3. Competition may add interest for those people who need a challenge in order to enjoy a game. Ever tried to play poker without money?
4. Since most old people have health problems, then this should be considered as the "normal" state. However, most doctors would discourage anyone with a chronic condition from doing competitions.
5. Research should be done in order to understand what is safe for older people. Common sense may be over-cautious.

Nobody: excellent! Knowing nothing about your heart condition, may I question, in general, why so little skiing? To me, either the cardiac condition is still unstable after 3 years (and then no risks should be taken) or, hopefully, all is well, and then why only 7 days, if one enjoys it?
May I mention Sir Ranulph Fiennes who 4 months after a massive heart attack followed by double coronary bypass, run 7 marathons and then did the Eiger, etc, etc?

Cheers!

Ott, Just want to remind you---Next season ,when the snow is perfect, the sun is out, the weather is brisk and it`s during the week and you have the glimmer in your eye and the thought in your mind call me and we will ski together....larry c

Well, let's say it's been a sum of factors.
-The winter after surgery (2005-2006) I did ski downhill once and cross country another, but that was enough to prove to myself that it was still too early.
-My Cardiologist is very cautious with my conditions and prefers me to go slowly, he just cleared me to ski, skate, swim (which, in fact I've done most of this past winter) but is not happy about me palying tennis, even at a very low level neither with me going on a trek in the mountains, unless it's a very short one (in terms of time, especially if it involves to ascend somewhere)
-Self confidence is another factor, I did not feel ready till this winter and used the past times to build back a bit of strength. One of those 7 days involved skiing with my mother, who has had a knee busted in a fall two years ago...She too skied for the first time this winter since then.
-Money, bloody money. Only when there's not enough one realizes that really, money will not buy happiness but surely helps.
I will not elaborate on this one further but there's (notice the present tense and not the past) a mile long list of things I've had (and have) to pay off which limited my skiing budget.
.
I hope, next winter, to increase the count to at least double than that, but all factors will have to collimate. Again as I said, it's not the quantity, and in the future I'll feel really blessed to be able to ski, even for only one single day per season.

>>>>I think that anybody still skiing after, say, age 60 is very impressive, regardless of their level of skiing.<<<

raspritz, the old, seventy plus skiers I ski with during the week when it is uncrowded are almost exclusively long time skier, retired instructors, patrollers or long time season ticket holders. Most have learned in their childhood but universally they ski very efficiently because they know how to guide their skis without manhandling them. Getting up after a fall is a major undertaking, so they don't fall.

Folks who learned to ski in middle age don't have the lifelong experience in skiing nor the mileage that instructors and patrollers get, there are exceptions of course.

Missile, as a photojournalist an editor of mine gave me a lesson on what is exceptional and newsworthy. He gave me the example of 10,000 cars driving into town from the suburbs every morning to go to work, they are not news nor exceptional, it's the one that doesn't make it that is.

Please don't take this post as lecturing you on your perception of older people skiing, I agree with what you said about more and more old folks skiing, matter of fact so many that ski areas which gave free skiing to 70-year-old skiers have upped the age for free skiing to 75 and many to 80, I presume they were losing too much money on us. Maybe being an old skier is becoming normal.

Larry, I'm looking forward to it...

....Ott

I had assumed "skiing your age" meant age x 1000 vertical in one day. As I started skiing in my mid-20's I've only done it 3 times, and not since 1984.

Start your kids young and they will ski a considerable multiple of their age sometime. In the case of my son Adam, 43K vertical on 4/6/1996 at age 11 years 3+ months.

>>>>I had assumed "skiing your age" meant age x 1000 vertical in one day.<<<

Hmmm....let me see, 76x1000=76,000 vertical feet in one day, I better enter the Aspen 24-hour race...

....Ott

Several years ago I skied with one of those altimeter watch thingies. Seems obvious now but I was surprised that it recorded changes in altitude so if I rode a lift 1500' up the mountain then skied back to that lift, it tallied 3000'. I wonder sometimes when I read about vertical feet skied in a given time if it's accurate or if it's more nearly twice what was actually skied.

Speed

Almost did both. I'm 61 and exceeded that many days on snow this year.

I was clocked at 55 mph (88 kph) on my snowboard in Davos. They have two sensors about 3/4 of the way down the course and they display your max speed at the finish line. Here's a short video.