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Men's Moguls (CAUTION..!!)

post #1 of 47
Thread Starter 
Mosely got 4th, Travis got the silver.

Mosely pulled his "dinner roll" move and apparently had a flawless run but it wasn't good enough. I heard somewhere that judges don't really like the "dinner roll" and it was suggested that Mosely shouldn't bother trying it. Mosely on the other hand, says that the judges don't appreciate how difficult the move is.
post #2 of 47
Hard to exercise "caution" when the post is clearly visible on the mainpage.
post #3 of 47
Well someone is just going to have to post another new topic and try and bump it. I'm just about posted out....but if you insist I'm sure I could come up with something.
post #4 of 47
What is this "CAUTION" all about?

BTW one jump is not going to win olympic gold not even in ski jumping.....

post #5 of 47
One jump shouldn't determine the winner, but in an event called freestyle in which there is no free style, you'd think the guy with all else virtually equal who does something innovative and original would get some more credit.

I mean twisters and spread eagles!?! Those guys (the judges) need to get into the eighties, let alone the the 21st century. Allowing inverts would be a good start.

But I do like seeing underdogs win.
post #6 of 47
"... but in an event called freestyle in which there is no free style, you'd think the guy with all else virtually equal who does something innovative and original would get some more credit."

That's the same problem with any other sport in which subjective judging is involved. Witness last night's pairs figure skating and the low ranking that Michalchuk got in the halfpipe for his "double michalchuk" in the qualifying rounds. FIS has taken the 'free' out of freestyle.

post #7 of 47
I saw Jonny perform the dinnerroll twice, during yesterday's Men's Mogul event.
Now why in the world wouldn't the judges like it. I saw no one else perform any out of this world jumps.
In moguls,each jump is only worth 25% of the total score.
All n all, even though we didn't take Gold, it came down to the final competor. It was an AWESOME event to see in person.
post #8 of 47
The mens moguls was a joke. Janne Latela can pull every trick in the book, but he plays it safe with lame twistie/spread crap we have seen forever and wins. What a loser. Do these guys realize that they are killing thier sport. Could they make bumps more boring? It's no wonder Szocs, Cussan, Dorian, Laforque Etc... all quit to pursue a more free and creative skiing. The women totally kicked thier ass. Jennifer Heil did a harder trick than Janne. Good on Moseley for not playing it safe and keeping it progressing. Too bad nobody else seems to care to risk anything.
post #9 of 47
Yeh Ville, it is those crusty old pink and white Prada one-piece suit wearing judges with fur lined gloves who are completely out of touch with the evolution that is occurring in skiing, and especially in the past few years. No inverts? Not liking the dinner roll? It is ridiculous. They were doing twisters and spreads in the 70's, and every man and his dog can do them, you see them all the time at any ski area in the world. World Cup level skiers should be given the reins to push the limits and make us go "WOW, how the hell did they manage that?!", not do some old school, camp, euro-freak ponce manouvers.

As for that limp women's downhill course, with it's marathon of gliding and 2 tight turns...I am lost for words. What a bore.
post #10 of 47
I totally disagree with you Therockskier, after seeing the comp yesterday it has made me determined to go out and practice my daffy twister spread until it is perfect....Not!!!

We know that all the skiers have the ability to do way better and more technical tricks but if they want to win then they have to tow the line and pull lame air. The situation undermines the value of the olympic competition and it does nothing to inspire young talent who will no doubt be put off the sport of freestyle as a result.
post #11 of 47
Yeh it will just join Ski Ballet as a 70's has-been. What a foul perversion that was.
post #12 of 47
I was at the Moguls event yesterday. All in all I had a good time (except for the 45 minute line for a $5 beer). It was an amazing thing to see these athletes compete for Olympic Gold, however I have the following to say:

Qualifications were a joke. I understand that quals are very much toned down, however, these guys really took it easy coming down the hill. Well, except the Japanese, they all bit it pretty bad, wait, one made finals, then bit it. John-Luc Bassard (French) (Ok, if I messed this up, sorry) had an amazing qual run, and didn't qualify. This was stupid, he skied far better than 95% of the field Tuesday morning.

Finals were practically fixed. No, I'm not really saying that, but cooommmme ooooon.

Sure Mosley threw an amazing air, but he knew long ago, if he threw it, the judges would score him very low. He chose to do it anyway, he knew what would happen. He threw a tripple twister up top, which is a joke, I learned that when I was 14, and have not done it since I was 15. However, he nailed both jumps with no flaws, and nobody will question if an off axis 720 is more difficult than a spread eagle. (why does a spread score higher?) Mosley landed far better than most of the competors in the field, and skied into the bumps very smoothy afterwards. My problem with this is that Mosley scored full points lower in airs than some competors did who threw spread-twisters. This isn't 70's Warren Miller, judges get out of your Dale sweaters, take your skiing style boots together heads out of your asses long enough to open your eyes! Just because you don't like a trick doesn't mean that it was skilled!

This judgement by me does not include anything including time and turns, which are together 75% of the score, which I assume is what kept Mosley out of the medals.

I am not a huge Mosley fan, however, I believe that he did ski better (including turns and speed) than most of the other athletes out there, is trying to bring the sport to a new level, and deserved a medal.

If the judges are not going to open their eyes to new school moves in the bumps course, they should remove the jumps from the course and just judge time and turns. :
post #13 of 47
I think the same issues are widespread in the surfing world as well. Watch a competition, and it's all about how many cut backs they can make. But when they are out just playing, the best surfers are pulling some real eye-openers.

Didn't the same thing happen in figure skating too? Guys doing back flips and some other different moves, who were then told they weren't allowed to do them?

post #14 of 47
I know that we've been concentrating on Moseley, and also that I'm no expert, BUT...
I think it was a Canadian who finished in 6th who I thought skied considerably better than most of the guys above him, yet didn't get the overall mark.

Could someone explain that one as well?

post #15 of 47
Let’s go back to the Old School 70’s days when skiers would ski different lines and bust air whenever and wherever they wanted to. There is little freestyle left in the moguls comp. Everyone takes the same lines, takes air twice in the same spots. They should call it the moguls compulsories.

Props to Mosely for pushing the envelope and not playing it safe. Can’t knock Lahtela either, he knew what he had to do and executed.
post #16 of 47
just came in my mind. have ever thought how much accidents would increase if inverts would be allowed. maybe inverts are not allowed because of skiers safety? maybe that's why there is competitions which have only jumps, no moguls :
post #17 of 47
Why did they allow inverts in the half pipe?
post #18 of 47
Sounds like a disconnect in within the judges.
post #19 of 47
Who gives a toss if they injure themselves trying an invert?
post #20 of 47
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lucky:
Why did they allow inverts in the half pipe?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Simple –

As a rule, boarders are more technically proficient than skiers are. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
post #21 of 47
>>As a rule, boarders are more technically proficient than skiers are.<<

This is true, one board and two edges - no poles . . . easy to get proficiant at. Its a lot easier to juggle 1 ball than 3. But, though more difficult - juggling 3 balls is more impressive and gives more choices.
post #22 of 47
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Todd M.:
Its a lot easier to juggle 1 ball than 3. But, though more difficult - juggling 3 balls is more impressive and gives more choices.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, I won't post what I was going to, after all, this is a family forum.

post #23 of 47
Maybe its because nobody cares if they get hurt?

Skiers are outstanding members of society, boarders are just pot-smoking losers with no-place to live.

NOTE- Since nobody can hear the tone of my voice, nor see the expression on my face, I feel it necessary to declare that this was said in sarcasim. I know that snowboarders are also car stealing thugs who would do bad things to your momma.
post #24 of 47
I watched this with two non skiers. Both thought what Mosely did was very interesting, exciting. Thought everyone else was boring.
post #25 of 47
It would be fun to watch the ones who think everything but freestyle is boring try and survive a run through the gates down Grizzly!
post #26 of 47
Janne Lahtela did good jumps. he didn't do new school tricks because he is not stupid. when you know what kind of tricks judges appriciate, it is stupid to do something else if you want to win. but i agree that inverts should be allowed. Lahtela and other finnish guys can do inverts and spins just as good as Johnny, or even a bit better After all, it's the judges who are killing the sport, not skiers.
post #27 of 47
At the top level these athletes have inverts dialed, it isn't that dangerous for them. Dybvig got hurt doing a tweeked 360 -- an invert would not have been any more dangerous for him (he does tons of inverts in other non-FIS comps).

Todd, I agree, the downhill is the most dangerous, most intense sport on skis. I love watching that too.
post #28 of 47
Todd -I don't think skiing down the Grizzly race course would be very challenging. Really, just skiing it would be no big deal whatsoever. Racing it may be different.

Every top mogul skier can throw inverts in the bumps. Too bad the euro judges hate progressive skiing.
post #29 of 47
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by spinheli:
Todd -I don't think skiing down the Grizzly race course would be very challenging. Really, just skiing it would be no big deal whatsoever. Racing it may be different.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


"There is simply nothing I've done as a skier to prepare me for going straight down tilted ice. The downhill is on another planet compared to what most people see as skiing. "--Kristen Ulmer

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ February 13, 2002 11:54 PM: Message edited 1 time, by craigmont ]</font>
post #30 of 47
Agree entirely...part of the athletes brilliance and other-wordliness is how easy they make it look. Consider that most of the turns on that course had been water-injected to make it as icy as poss. 99.9% of us would flail like the gaping punters we are in comparison.
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