EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › Do not as I say,,, do as I meant
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Do not as I say,,, do as I meant

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
The world of ski teaching is full of popular expressions that when followed literally produce a form of skiing very different than the expression was intended to promote. This thread is offered as a window into that world of misspeak. I'll start you off with a couple. Feel free to add to the list.


************************************************** ****************************************




1) GET YOUR FEET OUT FROM UNDER YOUR BODY

Executed literally: Student pushes feet out to the side.

Actual meaning: Move body inside of feet.



2) "PRESSURE" OR "BEND" YOUR OUTSIDE SKI

Executed literally: Student tries to push down on his/her outside ski. Often ends up locking leg and/or pushing feet and skis away.

Actual meaning: Angulate so that more load is directed to your outside ski.
post #2 of 21
Thread Starter 
OK,,, many views I see, but no responses. Alright,,, here,,, I'll give you another. An oldy but goody.


3) BEND ZEE KNEES

Executed literally: Student flexes the knees and ends up in the back seat.

Actual meaning: Flex knees, ankles and at waist to remain balanced while eliminating static/stiff skiing.
post #3 of 21
Do you mean like :

"Hold your arms out like you are reading the newspaper, round your spine & shoulders."

So the result looks like you have osteoporosis, & you have successfully closed off your lungs so you can't fully breath at high altitude.

Better : Quiet upper body facing the direction you are heading (down hill we hope) hands ready to do their job-pole plant- elbows in. Like riding a horse. No flopping elbows, arms or hands. Each has a job & is "ready". Oh, a quiet upper body is doing it's job by making adjustments with rhythm, flow, timing & balance.
post #4 of 21
In order to turn push on the gas!

Clueless first timer crashes into the fence below wondering what the hell that means.

Instructor kind of meant to put pressure in the inside edge of a stemmed ski.

I'm still scratching my nuggies wondering what nit wit came up with that. This was a favorite among some of the "old timers" at our hill. You would think that watching customer after customer hit the fence would .... ah ... what the heck do I know?
post #5 of 21
Well this doesn't fit the exact syntax of the thread, but is related.

Move up and down, vs. Flex and Extend. Looks and to many students feels like the same thing.
post #6 of 21
Get forward to engage the tip of the ski..... well, with modern cut ski's that can be the largest widest part of the ski.

What does that really mean ? Dig it in ? hmmm... : I know, this one isn't fair.
post #7 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuki View Post
In order to turn push on the gas!

Clueless first timer crashes into the fence below wondering what the hell that means.

Instructor kind of meant to put pressure in the inside edge of a stemmed ski.

I'm still scratching my nuggies wondering what nit wit came up with that. This was a favorite among some of the "old timers" at our hill. You would think that watching customer after customer hit the fence would .... ah ... what the heck do I know?
Yuki, my photoghrapher (and an old friend of yours) adamantly agrees with you on the "gas pedal" expression. Actually pressing a gas pedal in a car requires plantar flexion (extending/opening the ankle joint). Doing that puts a skier right on their heels/tails. Surely not what an instructor is looking for.
post #8 of 21
Thread Starter 
By the way,,, this thread is a good venue for students to share things instructors have said to them, or things they've read on these forums, that have totally confused them. Your input could help the pros here learn and reconsider what they say, and/or how they say it.
post #9 of 21
GET FORWARD!

Executed literally - Student levers on the front of the boot as the CM passes forward of the boot's tongue. The "Sweet Spot" under the foot, upon which we can accurately tip and turn the ski, goes away and moves forward in the ski. (can you say J-shaped turns?)

What it means (most of the time) - DON'T SIT BACK!

Actually I get the impression that some here actually mean GET FORWARD. That turns into a long discussion!

Stirrin' the pot,
Spag
post #10 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by 911over View Post
What does that really mean ? Dig it in ? hmmm...
Heck yeah, dig it in as much as you can as early as you can.
post #11 of 21
"Get your hands forward" is one I've heard a lot. Many instructors seem to be under the delusion that hand placement in and of itself is going to cause something useful to happen. Generally what does happen is that the butt is pushed out simultaneously in order to maintain balance, just the opposite of what was intended. I've also seem people rigidly imprisoned to a narrow stance with little lateral movement because they had been advised to keep their hands together in front of them at all costs. My advice has been pretty much the opposite. "Open up, relax, experiment with lateral movent of the body. Use your hands and arms for balance if it helps. we'll refine your hand position after you learn to move."
post #12 of 21
I've already weighed in on "ski tip engagement" in another thread which has been clarified by another as 'When instructors refer to "tip engagment" they mean having the ski tip bite and start pulling into the turn.' Now I think we all know what a ski tip is but of course it seems these instructors are not referringto the ski tip at all but instead to the entire front of the ski or some relatively large portion thereof and, of course they do not mean engaging the edges of that portion only since, mercifully, modern skis have quite more than enough torsional rigidity to make that impossibile but instead some concept of pressure distribution , which is, inconveniently, not mentioned at all.
post #13 of 21
"Put your skis on edge" Proceeds to edge his skis by moving knees to one side while remaining bolt upright. Obviously what he has neglected to describe correctly is how to create adge angles, showing the sudent instead that this is done by simply moving the knees only.
post #14 of 21
"Look where you want to go" Demonstrates by turning head in intended direction of turn. Entire upper body turns as well, following the movement of the head, thus effectively teaching the student to turn the skis with upper body rotation.
post #15 of 21
"Tip the skis simultaneously"-

Skier stems. Happens at all levels.
post #16 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post
By the way,,, this thread is a good venue for students to share things instructors have said to them, or things they've read on these forums, that have totally confused them. Your input could help the pros here learn and reconsider what they say, and/or how they say it.
I have to say, "get forward" has always been useless advice for me. I thought it meant to press down on the balls of my feet, which of course sent me into the backseat. The best piece of advice was "touch your toes to the top of your boot." Or if someone had just said, "Contract tibialis anterior", that would have worked, too.

Likewise, "face downhill" wasn't very helpful. I kept my face looking down, but the upper body still led the turn. "Pivot your legs at the hip" would have been much more informative and precise.

I have very clear memories of a ski instructor rolling his eyes and sighing at me, while he repeatedly told me to get forward. I didn't ski again for a few years after that.
post #17 of 21
Acro... "get forward" has also been less than useful to me, other than to describe a situation where the skier needs to be "not back".

Oisin... WHAT? I think we might be on the same page, but I really can't tell. Lotta commas in a run-on sentence to be sure. But the use of the word "instructors" seems a little pretentious. I'm an instructor, and the tip of the ski is hardly ever mentioned in my lessons. Not all of us "instructors" agree that "tip engagement" is the "Holy Hand Grenade" of ski instruction.

Spag
post #18 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Notorious Spag View Post
Acro... "get forward" has also been less than useful to me, other than to describe a situation where the skier needs to be "not back".

Oisin... WHAT? I think we might be on the same page, but I really can't tell. Lotta commas in a run-on sentence to be sure. But the use of the word "instructors" seems a little pretentious. I'm an instructor, and the tip of the ski is hardly ever mentioned in my lessons. Not all of us "instructors" agree that "tip engagement" is the "Holy Hand Grenade" of ski instruction.

Spag
Hehe
I imagine we are on the same page but who knows? I'm not sure what a holy hand grenade is. I suspect, and this has been somewhat confirmed by the response here and elsewhere, that there are various understandings of what "tip engagement" means. The term is somewhat misleading, in my opinion. Although I think I know what is meant by it, I am occasionally suprised to discover that someone has a very different interpretation. Such imprecision leads to multiple interpretations and consequent confusion. I imagine this is of interest primarily to ski instructors. If every one is comfortable with their various interpretations of this and other terms in common use so be it.
post #19 of 21
You turn to control your speed

I know - Bob's brainwashed me.

I like it


Seriously - I think when my body figures this one out it is going to be the most significant change in my skiing.


Any random one-liner

Skiing is holistic. One liners detract from that. I used to spend too much time doing all my one-liners and not enough looking at how they affected the bigger picture.
post #20 of 21
Keep your shoulders level to the hill! You want your shoulders to be level to the slope. Your uphill shoulder should be at the same incline as the pitch of the hill. Originally, I thought that this statement meant to keep your shoulders square to the bottom of the hill. Doing it the right way made a world of difference.
post #21 of 21
Shift your weight to the outside ski! (picked this one out of another thread-I had almost forgotten this one) Usually results in the opposite of what you wished to have happen.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Instruction & Coaching
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › Do not as I say,,, do as I meant