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Look PX12-type bindings weight, lift, and applicability

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 
OK... I am really considering adding the Mythic Rider (178 cm) to my ski collection. I have couple of options, i.e a used demo model with the Dynastar PX12 demo binding, a new MR with the PX12 Fluid system or a flat MR (SierraJim's sale is really enticing me) and couple the last with something like SJs Look PX12 Ti Lifter binding (with 4mm lifter plates).

I really like the idea of the softer flex lighter weight of a flat system, but I am also intrigued by the positioning flexibility of the PX12 demo binding or the Fluid system. As a matter of fact, the last time I demoed an MR was with the PX12 demo binding, I found the ski to be quite quick but not much of an edge hold on real steep crust even with good edges - lots of skidding/scarving. But the binding was probably mounted a bit forward since it set my boot sole (342 mm) middle mark about 1 cm forward of the ski centerline mark even with the toe piece positioned one notch back for my sole length.

1) Does anyone know the weight difference between the PX12 demo, PX12 Fluid, and PX12 Ti Lifter (4mm plate)?

2) What about the difference in feel and flex of the bindings? Would one binding give the closest to a flat ski feel but with just enough edge on those crusty days?

3) What would be the most useful for a primarily off-piste PNW ski which might also see some travel to CO, Utah, MT?

4) Are the lifter plates on the PX12 Ti model just an option or do they have to be used?

5) Any other binding recommendations?

Thanks,
Nick
post #2 of 16

Almost does not matter, get what you like.

Nick-

Glad you are considering the MRs. My MRs are mounted with the PX12 lifters, no compalints there. If I was buying the skis now I would have gotten the Fluid, simply because of the higher future resale value (no need to redrill). SJ only had the flat ski on a special at the time. I cannot imagine that SJ's sale cannot compete with the demo ski price, so get the new ones if you can. I don't think the weight difference or the flex difference is all that significant. The only binding alternative to the PX12 (excluding higher DIN Looks, such as PX14 and PX15) are Marker Jesters, but I don;t think that their benefits outweigh Look's reputation and the warranty extension you get whren you mount Dynastars with Looks (I think you get an extra year of warranty or so). Good luck,

Alex
post #3 of 16

PX12's - Great if you like Boat Anchors!

FWIW (I am hardly an expert on these matters, but I took a close look at bindings recently when I added a pair of Watea 84's w/ Head LD 12's to my quiver):
  1. The PX12 bindings are the heaviest standard alpine bindings on the market (by "standard" I am not including AT or some of the new hybrid styles). Based on my recent (not completely scientific) research the flat-mounted PX12 appears to be about 1500g per ski, while the PX12 Ti is 1300g per ski based on the specs (I don't know about the fluid or demo models). By comparison the Salomon Z12 ti's are about 900g, the Tyrolia/Head LD 12's are about 1100g, and the Marker 12.0 Free's are about 1300g. The non-ti PX12's truly feel like boat anchors relative to the other bindings on the market.
  2. I've read various opinions on this website about demo bindings(mostly OK to neutral). Unfortunately I am in the minority that think they stink. I have Salomon S910 demo's on my powder skis and they sometimes work fine while at other times they pre-release like crazy. They also do not provide a strong connection to my skis (the bindings clearly have a lot of freeplay in the track). I will never use demo bindings again. OTOH - My Tyroli Railflex-mounted SLD 11's work well for providing adjustability and aren't hindered by any release problems, though again I am not sure they provide the surest boot-to-ski connection (though I accept this given the usefulness of the adjustability, which were needed for the skis I use them on).
  3. My current rock skis have a pair of 2001-era Look P7.0's (which are the predecessors to the current PX line). Due to their weight they make my skis feel heavier than I like. OTOH they are possibly the best bindings I've ever owned from a secure boot-to-ski connection and release reliability perspective.
My conclusion: If some extra weight is acceptable and price is no object I would get the PX12 Ti's. I will probably do this on my next powder skis given my desire for added release reliability in deep snow. For other purposes however, the flat or Railflex Tyrolia/Head LD 12's seem to be the best weight/performance/cost approach (you will find similar thoughts about the LD 12's in other threads on this website).

Good Luck!
post #4 of 16
Thread Starter 
Ski-Ra,

Thanks for the comments. Yeah, although, the idea of a lighter setup and flexible positioning of a Rail-flex like system (LD12s) is really enticing, I do like the fact that, even though my experience has been limited, the Look PX12s that I have tried have never early released on me as long as I had a completely clean boot sole and properly engaged.

Alex,

Also thanks for your input. Although you might have chosen the Fluid System for your MRs if you could have gotten the current deal through SJ, my recent comparison (see my addition to your thread in the MR/8K comparison), although not perfect since I was not able to try the Fluid System on the MRs, suggests that you might have missed some of the characteristics that you find so appealing in the MRs had you chosen the
Fluid system with your MRs. I think you did well choosing a flat system and and it better complements your old 8000Ks - just an opinion.

Does anyone know if the lifters on the PX12 Ti's are optional and/or can be taken on/off easily?

Now what should I do I'm leaning towards expanding my quiver with the MRs and, even though more expensive, adding a flat mounted pair of the PX12 Ti binders. But, I really don't NEED them now since the season is over.... but its such a good deal...... decisions, decisions......(damn, I need a sugar momma!!!) Please... please.....someone decide for me!!!!!!
post #5 of 16
Don't quote me on this but I read on newschoolers.com that the plastic bottoms can be taken off but the the screws need to be shortened. I'm sure your local shop can do all of this for you.
post #6 of 16
I really don't think you should bother trying to mount the PX without the lifters. The toe and heel heights for that binding are 20.5mm and 26mm respectively. This is not considered a lot of lift and if anything should help improve performance on harder snow. Plus, trusting the average ski shop to shorten the screws properly, IMHO, is pure folly. Why risk having them go too short (improper engagement) or too long (base damage).
post #7 of 16
I consider my local shop the above average one, but I guess I'm just spoiled http://www.summitskishop.com/ Good thread though, I'm picking up some lifters this weekend for my 179 PE's and have been wondering if I should keep them on or have my shop take them off.
post #8 of 16
Thread Starter 

Wide or regular PX12 for Mythics?

Would the brakes on the regular PX12 Ti bindings (with the lifters) be adjustable enough to fit on the 88mm wide Mythics? The regular non-wide non-Jib version says it is good to 80 mm wide skis. Would I have to go for the Jib/Wide version (100mm wide) binding/brake setup to fit the Mythics?
post #9 of 16
You have to use the wider brakes on the MR's.
post #10 of 16
I have the PX12ti Fluid on my Contact 11's and they work very well. They are not especially heavy IMO.

I have the PX12ti on a K2 ski, no complaints either.

I had the older Demo P12 Pivot and hated it. Sloppy & heavy; not a good choice. The PX12 demo is better.

I would go with the PX12ti Fluid plate system, it provides all the flexibility of the demo without the bulk or slop.

Michael
post #11 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigNick View Post
Ski-Ra,

Thanks for the comments. Yeah, although, the idea of a lighter setup and flexible positioning of a Rail-flex like system (LD12s) is really enticing, I do like the fact that, even though my experience has been limited, the Look PX12s that I have tried have never early released on me as long as I had a completely clean boot sole and properly engaged.

Alex,

Also thanks for your input. Although you might have chosen the Fluid System for your MRs if you could have gotten the current deal through SJ, my recent comparison (see my addition to your thread in the MR/8K comparison), although not perfect since I was not able to try the Fluid System on the MRs, suggests that you might have missed some of the characteristics that you find so appealing in the MRs had you chosen the
Fluid system with your MRs. I think you did well choosing a flat system and and it better complements your old 8000Ks - just an opinion.

Does anyone know if the lifters on the PX12 Ti's are optional and/or can be taken on/off easily?

Now what should I do I'm leaning towards expanding my quiver with the MRs and, even though more expensive, adding a flat mounted pair of the PX12 Ti binders. But, I really don't NEED them now since the season is over.... but its such a good deal...... decisions, decisions......(damn, I need a sugar momma!!!) Please... please.....someone decide for me!!!!!!
Nick-

As you know I love my MRs, so I sincerely recommend them. I now think that putting PX12 lifters on the MR was not such a bad idea, as they will help the 88mm waisted ski to carve better and I don't think they will change you soft snow performance all that much. Subjectively, my own MRs felt quicker edge to edge than the demo skis that were mounted with demo Markers (that pre-released on the fist small jump I took, so stay with the LOOKs ). I don't think that taking the riser plates off the bindings is such a great idea as it exposes the track to snow and moisture somewhat more. At SJ prices you are not loosing much considering that MRs are unchanged next season. And this ski is too much fun, seriously....
post #12 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigNick View Post
Would the brakes on the regular PX12 Ti bindings (with the lifters) be adjustable enough to fit on the 88mm wide Mythics? The regular non-wide non-Jib version says it is good to 80 mm wide skis. Would I have to go for the Jib/Wide version (100mm wide) binding/brake setup to fit the Mythics?
You can buy wide brakes separately.
post #13 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigNick View Post
Would the brakes on the regular PX12 Ti bindings (with the lifters) be adjustable enough to fit on the 88mm wide Mythics? ...Would I have to go for the Jib/Wide version (100mm wide) binding/brake setup to fit the Mythics?
The regular PX brake is too narrow and its difficult to bend. Like alexzn said, you will need the wider brake.

Michael
post #14 of 16
Thread Starter 
Alex,

So, if I understand you correctly, you also think that I may be better off paying the extra money to get PX12Ti lifter bindings with the flat ski rather than going with the PX12 on the Fluid setup on the MRs?

( I wish I had had a chance to try the MRs with the Fluid system.).

By the way, thanks for all your input. Even thought I don't really NEED another pair of skis , I WANT another pair - almost as good as NEEDING.

Nick
post #15 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigNick View Post

I really like the idea of the softer flex.... of a flat system...
Is this actually true from a practical standpoint. I mean, would the differance be noticeable in soft snow conditions, packed powder... even hardpack?

Curious as I am also considering this ski The system price is very good. fwiw - I had the 8800's and loved them in the 178 as an everyday Tahoe ski.
post #16 of 16
Nick- I honestly do not know, as I never tried the Fluid. I am guessing that the difference is not going to be all that huge. It is your call- the flat system is a tried-and-true solution, but you may need to spend $25-30 (or less) extra for wide brakes. As I said I would have been tempted to go with Fluid, because of a better resale and the possibility to play with the bindings a bit more (mounting point etc). I am very happy with my flat Mythics though, so either way you won't loose at the current price level. Maybe you can just send SierraJim a PM (or call him) and get his expert opinion.

Alex
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