Wow tdk6, you sure know how to cause trouble with a thread.
Don't worry, I'm never offended ... it's just not possible to offend me any more. The language my Mom used while I was growing up anesthetized me to every possible insult, profanity, nasty label and indifferent slight imaginable. She could make even the chickens blush...
Seems like "un-weighting" is a manufactured term to begin with and there are a lot of sub-category definitions out there. Some people consider these terms very inclusive, some consider them highly constrained. And no doubt these terms get redefined every time a new book comes out.
I think the KEY to understanding and properly defining variations of un-weighting was raised by pdxammo a while back. Do we define things in terms of a Partially Amorphous Body
(cherry-picking the body parts we want to include) or a Fully Amorphous Body
(considering every body part)? Also, do we include influences by external
factors (like terrain) or do we limit these terms only to the internal
muscular inputs by the skier?
tdk6, I'll not debate what any particular skier should or should not be doing. No point in it. I'll only chat about alternatives since I no longer believe there's a single 'right way' to ski. You ask why one would want alternatives? That's an odd question. I suspect most people want alternatives mainly because skiing is such an exploratory sport. I'd think it odd if anyone were to say, "I only want to make one single type of movement set for every turn!"
On your 'Ha' at catching my statement about '...flexing a bit...' well, that gets back to the question of what we mean by un-weighting.
If I ski a number of turns and keep the pressure under my skis approximately the same through each turn I must be doing something to accommodate the Virtual Bump (an inherent part of the mechanical process when turning back and forth across a slope). If I'm keeping pressure about the same - is this really
deliberate 'un-weighting'? If so, at the bottom of a turn do you say a skier is deliberately 'weighting' their skis? Personally, I don't count my movements to accommodate terrain
as deliberate weighting or un-weighting.
In the un-weighting concept we can make things quite muddy: What if I'm skiing along and forcefully lower both arms ... is this "down un-weighting"? What if at the same time I also forcefully extend both legs at a rate that perfectly compensates? Is it still down un-weighting or is it now up unweighting? Is it now neither? Since the extending legs are bigger, does that toggle the term change anyway?
What if I extend my legs at a rate that over
-compensates for the downward movement of my arms? Is this sufficient to switch the term we use?
You can see the problems that develop in a closer analysis. If our terms rely on the movement of specific body parts but exclude others we run into problems when non-included body parts affect the overall outcome. We could take all the body's parts
into consideration and only look at the outcome
to label it first as un-weighting, but then how do we nail down whether it's 'up' or 'down' un-weighting when some body parts are going up and others going down?
I'd prefer a simpler approach like the one posted by TMoritz.
Originally Posted by TMoritz
Stand on the floor with knees bent. Extend rapidly. Note feet leave the ground therefore the soles of your feet are unweighted.
Stand on the floors with a relaxed athletic stance. Rapidly flex knees and hips to draw the knees up towards the chest. Note feet leave the ground therefore the soles of your feet are unweighted.
If that's not enough, perhaps we can limit the concept of un-weighting to be "A deliberate muscular reduction in the current
pressure under one or both skis." This would deliver a good starting point because it wouldn't matter what pressure preexisted. It only becomes un-weighting if we take a deliberate *action* to reduce the current pressure. If terrain causes the reduction in pressure then it's not 'un-weighting' (which we've limited to a deliberate act). Furthermore, if we're Flexing to keep pressure the same
when it would otherwise increase (due to terrain) then it's still not un-weighting (but rather maintaining constant pressure).
After this maybe we can also clarify 'down un-weighting' to mean "Any form of deliberate pressure reduction under one or both skis using an accelerated downward movement of one or more body parts". This suggests Retraction although I suppose it also lets us forcefully lower just our arms to reduce pressure and call it down un-weighting...
Finally we could clarify 'up un-weighting' to mean "Any form of deliberate pressure reduction using a preparatory upward movement of one or more body parts to create an upward momentum". That would work when any
body parts are moved upward forcefully with the intent to reduce pressure under the skis in a later moment.
Of course any kind of up un-weighting creates a momentary increase
in pressure under one or both skis before the un-weighting event actually occurs so technically, up un-weighting only follows a pressuring movement.
I wouldn't include use of the Virtual Bump nor of physical Bumps as a component of active un-weighting any more than I would use skiing off a cornice as a form of active un-weighting. I'd want to reserve the un-weighting term for internally activated, deliberate movement patterns and eliminate terrain driven pressure changes.
On the possibility for keeping consistent pressure under the skis... I think it's just a matter of the technique applied and the skills of the skier. I understand that a great many skiers always hop into their turns bypassing turn entry with an un-weighting move (generally complimented by twisting the skis while un-weighted). This technique works fine and it may be the only way a person has ever skied - but again there are alternatives
and it is indeed possible to keep approximately the same degree of pressure under our skis throughout a turn. It requires constant pressure management rather than accepting the high/low pressure cycle driven by the Virtual Bump and classic skiing technique.
Originally Posted by tdk6
Stating that anybody could ski with constant pressure under skis is questionable. On snow tests with measuring instruments under footbeds show that there is a great ammount of pressure change in dynamic skiing.
If I test a person who hops into every turn then I'm sure that would be the case. If I test a person who manages pressure constantly and keeps it even, then it would not be the case.
Originally Posted by Schussboelie
Constant pressure isn't possible.
In the past you've shown a good grasp of mechanics so I'll challenge you to approach this from a different perspective - try finding a mechanical solution for accomplishing the task: Keeping constant pressure under the single ski as a one-legged skier skis completed turns down a 20-degree slope.
I bet you can do it. Consider momentum of the skier's upper body Mass, directional speed control (not necessarily round
) and any skidding, scarving or carving you desire. I think it's all about the direction and speed our Mass is moving vs the direction and speed our skis are moving.