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BIG ski SUV - Page 3  

post #61 of 578
4/16/08 at 7:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoWork View Post
um... why is everyone getting so burnt up about a big SUV? Are you that brainwashed that you think they're REALLY the sole cause of climate change? Have you done any research and seen all the rainforest that's being cut down to grow corn for "green" ethanol in South America??? You want to point a finger and get pissed? Look at the ship breaking operation at Chittagong, Bangladesh and other places in India where the toxic waste running into the ocean can be seen from space. The truth is that the environmental impact form an SUV is actually relatively small, and the pre '00 cars with V8s that are poorly tuned are belching out far more pollutants, and I didn't hear anyone talking trash to the guy with the Caprice doing 100. The car itself is far less damaging than the process to make it- every piece of a car that comes from the far east has essentially come from a smoke-belching, toxic waste-dumping abomination of environmental concern. The car or SUV itself would take decades to turn out the damage done in one afternoon by the process it takes to make one. From mining iron ore or recycling materials (from ships?!) to refining, to casting, to shipping, it all kills the planet. How do you think your car or all the parts to make it got here from China? A big ass boat floated 'em over here, which *gasp* polluted like a mofo on its way. How about Hybrids? Do you know what is going to happen to those huge Nickel batteries when the car dies? You probably never looked into it, so do you REALLY care? If you REALLY cared, you wouldn't buy a car at all- you'd get a mountain bike. Subaru is the only auto plant with 0-landfill waste, so buy a Subaru if you care. So stop hugging the tree so hard you can't see the guy behind you cutting 'em down! It honestly pisses me off to hear people act like you have to justify your purchases to someone else. SUVs are excessive, but then who are you? They're not illegal, bro and if you think buying a Prius is going to save this planet, sorry to rain on your parade. It's not.

I recycle everything, I drive a motorcycle in the summer and my Jeep sips gas in the winter. I pick up trash when I see it in the woods or on the street. I consider myself a middle-of-the-road green guy. I care, but also know I have no right to berate someone for wanting or having a big vehicle. SUVs aren't helping, but they are not the problem we should be concentrating out hate on, either.


I don't think large SUV's are the sole cause of climate change but they sure are not helping the matter. There are lots of other choices out there that could easily fit the needs of two people that would be a bit less excessive. The dude asked for opinions on a public forum, kind of can't help trying to persuade him in another direction whether he cares or not.


Also keep in mind that there is not an infinite supply of fuel on this earth. How much is open to debate but I don't peronally seeing gas getting any less expensive in our lifetime. I bet five years from now these vehicles will have very little value as noone will have the money to operate them. I also feel this way about all the large houses that have been built in recent years (families getting smaller, houses much bigger).


Remember in the early 90's how much people adored these vehicles. There was less talk of climate change and gas was dirt cheap with a seemingly endless supply. Times have changed and I think many resent these vehicles traveling down the road with lots of empty seats. They are sooo symbolic of American excess and yes I think there are many other choices that can be made besides buying a car.

Just because you can drive a suburban doesn't mean you should.Anyone that doesn't see 5$ per gallon gas coming in the next few years is blind. I hope I'm wrong.
post #62 of 578
4/16/08 at 8:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post
we need a vehicle that can accomodate our lifestyle.
Funny how our environment/surroundings (car, house, neighborhood, town, stores, climate) always need to change to accommodate our lifestyle, rather than our lifestyle changing to accommodate our environment/surroundings.
post #63 of 578
4/16/08 at 8:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by faisasy View Post
Funny how our environment/surroundings (car, house, neighborhood, town, stores, climate) always need to change to accommodate our lifestyle, rather than our lifestyle changing to accommodate our environment/surroundings.
I'm chuckling at this.
Just wait til RR and GF really do settle down and have kids::, more like have kids then settle down since that's usually the real progression.
post #64 of 578
4/16/08 at 8:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PBR View Post
I don't think large SUV's are the sole cause of climate change but they sure are not helping the matter.
Also keep in mind that there is not an infinite supply of fuel on this earth. How much is open to debate but I don't peronally seeing gas getting any less expensive in our lifetime.

Just because you can drive a suburban doesn't mean you should.Anyone that doesn't see 5$ per gallon gas coming in the next few years is blind. I hope I'm wrong.
Hey tree huggers, Hybrids aren't that cost effective when you add in replacing all those batteries. They also aren't "green" for the same reason. That's 30 times more car batteries at the bottom of the ocean.:
post #65 of 578
4/16/08 at 8:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post
Hey tree huggers, Hybrids aren't that cost effective when you add in replacing all those batteries. They also aren't "green" for the same reason. That's 30 times more car batteries at the bottom of the ocean.:

I said nothing about hybrids. I get 40+ mpg every tank in a regular car that gets me to the mountain every time in every type of driving conditions. I think there are plenty of good non-hybrid vehicles out there that do well with mpg. I'm not really a tree hugger, just attempt to make decisions that are good for my wallet and our environment.
post #66 of 578
4/16/08 at 8:52am
i originally took the original posters view to be valuing style over substance(i mean why choose an Escalade to drive in the snow and mountains?-it is arguably the wrong tool for job). My own bias tells me that gas mileage is a very important factor in enjoying a trip, then ride quality, storage space/passenger room. however, his and everyone elses needs/wants might be slightly different.
post #67 of 578
4/16/08 at 9:03am
I haven't read this thread, but all the cars you listed would suck as ski cars.

They are all

- heavy
- high center of gravity
- most are expensive
- bad fuel economy

This will make them harder to stop, and easier to roll.

What you want:

- low center of gravity
- lightweight, with good brakes and balance

You mentioned a jeep grand cherokee, well my outback has more room inside, just as much ground clearance, a MUCH lower center of gravity, better fuel economy, way better handling with all wheel drive, and its much easier to access a roof rack/box on an outback than an suv.

Of course,
I'm sure you won't demean yourself by driving a lowly subaru, so go ahead and get something impractical but trendy.
post #68 of 578
4/16/08 at 9:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PBR View Post
I said nothing about hybrids. I get 40+ mpg every tank in a regular car that gets me to the mountain every time in every type of driving conditions. I think there are plenty of good non-hybrid vehicles out there that do well with mpg. I'm not really a tree hugger, just attempt to make decisions that are good for my wallet and our environment.
PBR, I'm sorry truly! I didn't really intend to single you out OOPS! We all want to pay less to travel to ski so we can ust that money for other things, skis, food, lift tickets, lodging, etc. I regret the tree hugger comment, it was not nice to people that are trying their best to help out the environment.

Sorry to all, especially you

But, I hope the battery issues are taken in to account by those considering a new vehicle purchase.

I'm certain that some will buy Hybrids and then sell them to some unsuspecting person right before the batteries need replacing. That would be most cost effective, but reallly not nice LOL!
post #69 of 578
4/16/08 at 9:18am
Thread Starter 
To add, hybrids when fully accounted for, have more of an environmental impact than a huge Suburban. As stated, the battery issue is a big one. If you think about it, by going hybrid, it seems to be the more selfish option, since the true benefit is to your pocket for daily use, at the expense of the pollution it will inevitably introduce to the environment; and does in manufacturing the batteries. Even then the savings to the consumer has been argued, since like all batteries, they will need to be replaced...a battery for a cell phone costs $50 in some cases....can you imagine how much a Hybrid battery bank must cost....I think we might see many people disposing Hybrids rather than pay through the nose to get batteries.
post #70 of 578
4/16/08 at 9:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post
Hey tree huggers, Hybrids aren't that cost effective when you add in replacing all those batteries. They also aren't "green" for the same reason. That's 30 times more car batteries at the bottom of the ocean.:

I don't think hybrids are a cost effective solution, but making the assumption that the batteries would be dumped instead of recycled is biased.
post #71 of 578
4/16/08 at 9:19am
snofun, I agree witcha 100%... it's a huge can of worms that makes my head hurt. I'm trying to get people to chill a lil bit and maybe look past the biggest & most visible stereotype. Even the prius has a couple hundred pounds of heavy nickel in it, when a crazy SUV might have ten in the battery. So what are we really trading?

I'm all for being efficient, and I agree there's no need for an Escalade ESV, but if a man wants to drive one, well good for him. It's not the end of the world. I may feel it is a waste or irresponsible but that's just one of the beauties of being an individual.
post #72 of 578
4/16/08 at 9:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by medmarkco View Post
Frig everybody else.


I lived there for a few years, and am forced to spend a week and a few weekend there every year...and it's obvious that this is the Long Island credo.

That, and "Look at me."

Isn't that enough justification?
post #73 of 578
4/16/08 at 9:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry_Morgan View Post
I don't think hybrids are a cost effective solution, but making the assumption that the batteries would be dumped instead of recycled is biased.
Yes, definately biased ABSOLUTELY! Most recycling centers are run by government organizations at the city or county level at the point of contact. I trust those more than I trust the people at the auto shops and dealers to "do the right thing". But, how much can you really trust local government and their contractors to "do the right thing" other than lining their pockets every chance they get?:
post #74 of 578
4/16/08 at 9:28am
Get an Audi Q7 with a box on top.
post #75 of 578
4/16/08 at 9:29am
I view vehicle choices as a rather personal thing. You buy what YOU like. If you want a larger vehicle...fine. Smaller..fine. But the decision is yours and always should be.

One note about the center of gravity thing.

I used to drive 94 Jetta before the WJ Grand Cherokee. Through the last few years of ownership, I put on a modest aftermarket suspension set up that lowered the car. It handles amazingly well and really zipped around corners.

That being said, going to a Jeep Grand Cherokee with two solid axles was a big adjustment. However, I have yet to come close to "rolling" the vehicle...or even getting a wheel off the ground. I respect the fact that it's a larger, heavier vehicle with different handling characteritics than my old Jetta. What makes some of you think that Jeeps and SUV are prone to rolling over? I'd honestly have to try to roll this thing by A) Driving like a moron by cranking the wheel or B) Driving like a moron, cranking the wheel and purposely riding around with inproperly inflated tires.

I've also driving the Jeep in the highway during some pretty gusty winds. Aside from some lane drifting (that was easly corrected by some minor movments of the steering wheel) I felt no sensation of "rolling".
post #76 of 578
4/16/08 at 9:46am
Proponents of the idea that each individual should do whatever he/she feels is right/best for him/her should really give some thought to the Tragedy of the Commons.
post #77 of 578
4/16/08 at 9:52am
Nothing like a little car talk mixed with a whole bunch of:

Present company (ME) included here for the above

More coming now. every time I read and post in these "what should I buy?", "this is what I bought" threads I beleive folks all weigh in to defend their choices to alleviate their own "cognitive dissonance"-wiki it your self, no link provided sorry- about their own choices. I know I do!

Often, these lead to EXCELLENT suggestions and insights too. I value opinions of others and get a laugh out of how vehemetely people defend their choices/beleifs at the same time
post #78 of 578
4/16/08 at 10:00am
I really find it ironic that this kind of a fuss is made over a guy who drives an SUV to go skiing 11 times...but there's a hell of a lot of you who brag about jumping on a plane several times each season to burn more fuel each time than he would in a season of driving that beast.
post #79 of 578
4/16/08 at 10:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry_Morgan View Post
I really find it ironic that this kind of a fuss is made over a guy who drives an SUV to go skiing 11 times...but there's a hell of a lot of you who brag about jumping on a plane several times each season to burn more fuel each time than he would in a season of driving that beast.
And fuss about not having all your skis or having to pay extra baggage fees too
post #80 of 578
4/16/08 at 10:46am
Harry Morgan, buses burn more way more fuel and spew way more pollutants than passenger cars. But when you divide by the number of people on the bus, guess what? Much more efficient, many fewer lbs of pollutants. Ditto argument for a full plane, and most are these days.
post #81 of 578
4/16/08 at 10:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post
PBR, I'm sorry truly! I didn't really intend to single you out OOPS! We all want to pay less to travel to ski so we can ust that money for other things, skis, food, lift tickets, lodging, etc. I regret the tree hugger comment, it was not nice to people that are trying their best to help out the environment.

Sorry to all, especially you

But, I hope the battery issues are taken in to account by those considering a new vehicle purchase.

I'm certain that some will buy Hybrids and then sell them to some unsuspecting person right before the batteries need replacing. That would be most cost effective, but reallly not nice LOL!


Don't sweat it, I'm not offended at all. I actually agree with you about the hybrids and think car manufacturers can do much better than this.

My car (03 honda hx) was discontinued the year honda started putting out the civic hybrid. As a consumer this is total b.s. because the hx manual gets me between 42-48 mpg on the highway every time. When it comes time to replace this car there is really not a non-hybrid on the market that is comparable. In the mid 90's (of course when gas was cheap) the vx model got over 50 mpg. These manufacturers lead us to beleive they are coming up with solutions to what seems to be a growing problem but actually seem to be regressing. So yes, I blame a lot of this on car companies, possibly pushing us as consumers to buy a hybrid. Total B.S.
post #82 of 578
4/16/08 at 10:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post
Harry Morgan, buses burn more way more fuel and spew way more pollutants than passenger cars. But when you divide by the number of people on the bus, guess what? Much more efficient, many fewer lbs of pollutants. Ditto argument for a full plane, and most are these days.

This is a good point and I'll also argue that if someone lives in Florida and wants to ski for a week they kind of have to jump on a plane, other than staying home there really is no alternative. Driving to the mtn there is a ton of choices on what to drive to get you there.
post #83 of 578
4/16/08 at 10:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PBR View Post
Don't sweat it, I'm not offended at all. I actually agree with you about the hybrids and think car manufacturers can do much better than this.

My car (03 honda hx) was discontinued the year honda started putting out the civic hybrid. As a consumer this is total b.s. because the hx manual gets me between 42-48 mpg on the highway every time. When it comes time to replace this car there is really not a non-hybrid on the market that is comparable. In the mid 90's (of course when gas was cheap) the vx model got over 50 mpg. These manufacturers lead us to beleive they are coming up with solutions to what seems to be a growing problem but actually seem to be regressing. So yes, I blame a lot of this on car companies, possibly pushing us as consumers to buy a hybrid. Total B.S.
I agree wholeheartedly with this as well. But why should they do better? There are still plenty of consumers out there with the attitude that bigger is better etc. As a result, there is really nothing driving the demand for new technology. I'm expecting more and more outcry as gas prices rise, but by the time sufficient people demand more fuel efficient environmentally friendly vehicles, they will still be years away in developing them.
post #84 of 578
4/16/08 at 11:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by krp8128 View Post
I agree wholeheartedly with this as well. But why should they do better? There are still plenty of consumers out there with the attitude that bigger is better etc. As a result, there is really nothing driving the demand for new technology. I'm expecting more and more outcry as gas prices rise, but by the time sufficient people demand more fuel efficient environmentally friendly vehicles, they will still be years away in developing them.

I know, scary isn't it? I guess there is benefits to gas prices increasing to four or five dollars. You don't see a lot of big rides in Europe and the train system rules!
post #85 of 578
4/16/08 at 11:35am
The fact of the matter is that if Richie-Rich had real coin, he won't be asking about a SUV, he would be asking about which biz jet would work the best for going to ski country to ski his whopping 10 days a year.

BTW, good tires and the driver are the key to getting somewhere when it is dumping outside.
post #86 of 578
4/16/08 at 12:11pm
Honda gives you the most for your money. It's not the largest but the Pilot is a very practical size SUV. For your purposes the Honda four door pickup might be even better.
post #87 of 578
4/16/08 at 12:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn J View Post
I view vehicle choices as a rather personal thing. You buy what YOU like. If you want a larger vehicle...fine. Smaller..fine. But the decision is yours and always should be.

One note about the center of gravity thing.

I used to drive 94 Jetta before the WJ Grand Cherokee. Through the last few years of ownership, I put on a modest aftermarket suspension set up that lowered the car. It handles amazingly well and really zipped around corners.

That being said, going to a Jeep Grand Cherokee with two solid axles was a big adjustment. However, I have yet to come close to "rolling" the vehicle...or even getting a wheel off the ground. I respect the fact that it's a larger, heavier vehicle with different handling characteritics than my old Jetta. What makes some of you think that Jeeps and SUV are prone to rolling over? I'd honestly have to try to roll this thing by A) Driving like a moron by cranking the wheel or B) Driving like a moron, cranking the wheel and purposely riding around with inproperly inflated tires.

I've also driving the Jeep in the highway during some pretty gusty winds. Aside from some lane drifting (that was easly corrected by some minor movments of the steering wheel) I felt no sensation of "rolling".

So what you're saying, is that because you haven't rolled your jeep, jeeps must be identical to subarus balance wise?
post #88 of 578
4/16/08 at 12:44pm
I hope no one is ever thrust into a situation that severely tested his vehicle handling ability. unfortunately, I have.....I once felt invincible behind the wheel of my 4000 lb, tall profile, part time 4wd vehicle. I am sorry to say that i have dealt with RWD fishtailing and skidding on black ice. maybe even almost killed myself and others......

btw, I bet there are vehicles out there that would make fine choices versus Subaru's. it;s not like Subaru;s are the end all of ski transportation.

SUVs are like fat skis. We buy the biggest for what we might encounter so we think we;ll be prepared, not what we do encounter 95% of the time.
post #89 of 578
4/16/08 at 12:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by faisasy View Post
Funny how our environment/surroundings (car, house, neighborhood, town, stores, climate) always need to change to accommodate our lifestyle, rather than our lifestyle changing to accommodate our environment/surroundings.
Is this reverse evolution or de-evolution?

For those facing the quandary of buying a big hauler pick up for home projects and recreation, and really only needing a set of wheels for 90% of your lifestyle and REAL needs, consider a trailer. You park it when you don't need it. The hauling ratings of a lot of vehicles far outweigh their carrying capacity, correct? FWIW, probably not the brightest move, but, I've hauled just shy of a ton of flagstone up a steep grade at elevation with a 4 cylinder Forester.

For camping, boat trips and limitless other outings, a trailer can get loaded up with all kinds of gear and toys. A smaller vehicle can be also seasonally loaded with cargo boxes and racks for extra capacity in lieu of a trailer for winter driving.
post #90 of 578
4/16/08 at 1:09pm
Ashley and I have settled on a Jeep Liberty once we get out there. They seem to have the best overall balance in terms of space, everyday drivability, and handling in adverse conditions when needed. MPG seems to be comparable as well to other vehicles in the same category.
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