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Old DIN, New DIN???

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
What's the story here. And YES, I know, the old bindings are NOT safe. And I shouldn't be skiing them.

SO, was the old DIN settings/standard different in the 70's than it is now.
My Earlier Look's, Marker's, Salomon's etc usually went from a 1-4 or 1-5 range. Of course more current bindings and the DIN charts now start around 4 and go up past 12. So what's the deal here? Any correlation between the two?
post #2 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossi Smash View Post
What's the story here. And YES, I know, the old bindings are NOT safe. And I shouldn't be skiing them.

SO, was the old DIN settings/standard different in the 70's than it is now.
My Earlier Look's, Marker's, Salomon's etc usually went from a 1-4 or 1-5 range. Of course more current bindings and the DIN charts now start around 4 and go up past 12. So what's the deal here? Any correlation between the two?
I was actually skiing a Tyrolia 350D 1-3 (Pre-Din) binding yesterday. DIN came into play (IIRC) 1979ish. The point of reference I use is the Salomon 727. When the 727 came out is 78, the first year was a 1-4 window binding, the next year it was a 4-10 (I think) window, the first of the DIN bindings. For a while the 1-4 window 727's could be indemified when they torqued correct and there might have been an retrofit kit for these bindings too, taking out the 1-4 window and replacing it with the DIN one.

With the old 1-X bindings there really was no way to tell if the setting was correct for weight/height/ect other than putting the boot in and twisting out.
post #3 of 20
DIN settings has been introduced in late 70's. Before that, as you said, bindings usually used to have settings scale form 1 to 4 or 5. Those settings values are not comparable even between different models of the same manufacturer. The only way to set such old bindings properly is by using bindings testing device. But, don't do that. Get new bindings.
post #4 of 20
That pretty much gels with my recollections of my first years skiing and working in a rental shop around '79. I think my first bindings were Salomon 727's and I do recall working with pre DIN bindings around the same time. Prior to that I presume a Tyrolia set at 3 would not necessarily be the same as a Look or Salomon set on 3. Kind of reminds me of a boot flex index of 100 from one company not necessarily relating to a boot fex of 100 from another company.
post #5 of 20
Thread Starter 

That's kinda what I thought...

I DO ski on the older bindings all the time. (EXCEPT the PLASTIC ones!)
I have skis with Look Nevada/Grand Prix combo starting with early twin rollers, then single roller, then teflon inserts in toes, then the n57 with the new style toes, followed by n77's with both new toe and heel design. I do NOT ski the later PLASTIC n89's however.

On the Marker side, I have retired all the Simplex toes, but still ski M4's with a Rotamat FD heel, and MR's and MRR's.

Salomon's I only ski the all metal versions, 727 Equipe, 747 Equipe. It seems most of the PLASTIC versions have long since spit their spring out the back on most of the heels I have seen.

I clean them up, re-lube, check the setting and hit the slopes.....It's gotten me through the first 40 years skiing.......
post #6 of 20
DIN is a German institute of industrial standards, Deutsches Institut für Normung. It is certainly not specific to ski bindings.
"DIN's primary task is to work closely with its stakeholders to develop consensus-based standards that meet market requirements. Some 26,000 experts contribute their skills and experience to the standardization process.By agreement with the German Federal Government, DIN is the acknowledged national standards body that represents German interests in European and international standards organizations. Ninety percent of the standards work now carried out by DIN is international in nature."
http://www.din.de/cmd?level=tpl-bere...&languageid=en

Years ago there was no standardization among the different brands of ski bindings nor among the soles of the different makers of ski boots. When the binding and boot makers adopted the standards they'd all use, and used the German Institute for Standardization, DIN, to promulgate the standard, it got the label of DIN standard number 7881.

Other standard setting outfits are ISO -- International Standards Organization, ASTM -- American Society for Testing and Materials, SAE, and others.
post #7 of 20
Here are some Tyrolia 350D w/ safety straps on The Goat.



Health and life insurance was paid up.
post #8 of 20

Wanted

Anyone remember a testing protocol for Voile release plates?


PM if nec.
post #9 of 20
Thread Starter 
[quote=Philpug;891897]Here are some Tyrolia 350D w/ safety straps on The Goat.

Now that's what I'm talking about!

Old School.......and how were The Ski in the April "mashed potatos"?
post #10 of 20
Seems like this is the right forum for this. Have 1985-86 MRR's with I guess what's referred to as the Rotomat heel mounted on Rossi 203 FP SL's . Interesting thing is the DIN settings appear to start at 8 and go up to 14 on both the toe and heel. Pretty much stopped skiing for about 12 years and when I sent back with new boots, no shops would touch them. Do people still use these types of binding?
post #11 of 20
The Rotomats were pretty respected bindings in their day, the problem is that they are too old now. Regardless of the brand/model of binding, they all drop off the indemnified list when they age past a certain point. When that happens, the manufacturers and ski shops can no longer consider them safe/fit for use. They may still be fine, but nobody will stand behind them. Use at your own risk.

On a side note, this may be your cue to upgrade to new skis and bindings -- those Rossis are quite outdated at this point, and a modern ski will knock your socks off. A modern binding may also give additional safety benefits.
post #12 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex View Post
Anyone remember a testing protocol for Voile release plates?

Craig Dostie wrote,
The best advice I've heard on releaseables was from one of Karhu's engineers who suggested that the best way to set the release on a tele binding was to start loose in a controlled environment (like a groomer run)and progressively tighten the settings until it felt solid and wouldn't pre-release. Setting the release based upon anything else, weight, or DIN, was still just a gamble, and didn't factor in your skiing style. By progressively increasing the tension until you felt comfortable, you are taking that into account.

http://www.backcountryworld.com/showthread.php?t=1639

I believe Voilé recommends a similar procedure.

Are alpine bindings routinely tested? Could the machine that tests alpine bindings be used on the Voilé? I would not be suprised if the Voilé failed to produce consistent results compared to modern alpine bindings, but I feel they are safer than any DIN bindings currently being sold. This is just my feeling though, based only on the fact that that alpine bindings don't seem to release upwards at the toe. Does upward pressure force the alpine toepiece into a diagonal release path?
post #13 of 20
Thanks 219. Done that several years ago. Stopped using them in 2001 when I my rear entry Salomon's fell apart and were replaced with new boots and the shops wouldn't touch them. This thread on DIN peaked my interest to take a look in the basement, especially PhilPug's use of the Pre DIN Tyrolia's. Also that the range on these MRR's began at 8.
post #14 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
Here are some Tyrolia 350D w/ safety straps on The Goat.

Tyrolia 350D, safety straps, and composite poles...interesting priorities. I can't get rid of those old aluminum poles which rarely break and have functional grips.
post #15 of 20
[quote=Rossi Smash;892022]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
Here are some Tyrolia 350D w/ safety straps on The Goat.

Now that's what I'm talking about!

Old School.......and how were The Ski in the April "mashed potatos"?
Not as bad as you would expect a 30+ year old ski to ski. There was a point on "Liftline" where i leaned into a turn, forgetting that these have NO sidecut and just fell over. I don't care what anyone says, corn snow tastes nothing like corn.

I really wanted to take them out with the Nordica Polaris's I have, but the bindings won't adjust enough for the shells.
post #16 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post
Are alpine bindings routinely tested?
Yes.

Quote:
Could the machine that tests alpine bindings be used on the Voilé?
Not as-is, there is no rear hard pivot on the Voile for it to work against
post #17 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth Move View Post
Seems like this is the right forum for this. Have 1985-86 MRR's with I guess what's referred to as the Rotomat heel mounted on Rossi 203 FP SL's . Interesting thing is the DIN settings appear to start at 8 and go up to 14 on both the toe and heel. Pretty much stopped skiing for about 12 years and when I sent back with new boots, no shops would touch them. Do people still use these types of binding?
Yes! All the time, and some are even older that your MRR's.
But the shops won't touch them so you need to be satisfied they are working properly......AND... ski at your own risk.

btw...if you do deside to upgrade...I can take those old MRR's off your hands.....
post #18 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth Move View Post
Seems like this is the right forum for this. Have 1985-86 MRR's with I guess what's referred to as the Rotomat heel mounted on Rossi 203 FP SL's . Interesting thing is the DIN settings appear to start at 8 and go up to 14 on both the toe and heel.
Those are not DIN settings. Those are Marker's own settings and do not relate to the settings on other brands of bindings...and maybe not to other models of Markers.
post #19 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoftSnowGuy View Post
Those are not DIN settings. Those are Marker's own settings and do not relate to the settings on other brands of bindings...and maybe not to other models of Markers.

I think AFTER 1979, they are DIN settings. The reason that in this case they are so high, is that this is a "race" binding and need correspondingly high numbers for retension under those conditions.

It was only the pre-1979 numbers that were "manufacturers" setting with no overlap to other models or brands.
post #20 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoftSnowGuy View Post
Those are not DIN settings. Those are Marker's own settings and do not relate to the settings on other brands of bindings...and maybe not to other models of Markers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossi Smash View Post
I think AFTER 1979, they are DIN settings. The reason that in this case they are so high, is that this is a "race" binding and need correspondingly high numbers for retension under those conditions.

It was only the pre-1979 numbers that were "manufacturers" setting with no overlap to other models or brands.
They were "DIN"

MR (Marker Rotomat) 3-10
MRR (Marker Rotomat Racing or Marker Racing Rotomat) 8-14
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