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AK powder.

post #1 of 32
4/7/08 at 2:55am
Thread Starter 
It's well known that the drier the powder the better the experience. This is why so many people know and dream about the legendary Wasatch snow as well as hate and refrain from skiing wet sierra cement/mashed potatoe like stuff.
Alaska is famed for it's great powder skiing and this fact really looks strange to me. Logically Alaska should get wet high moisture coastal powder just like that of W/B. But nobody mentions this.
It would be very interesting if those guys with first hand experience share it with us and describe how the powder snow in Alaska feels like.:
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post #2 of 32
4/7/08 at 4:12am
I've never heard anyone say they they are going to AK for the powder.

I've skied there, with and without helis. Nobody goes to AK for pow. They go for terrain.

I think you're barking up the wrong tree.
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post #3 of 32
4/7/08 at 4:56am
Thread Starter 

samurai

It is not about "barking up", it is about knowing the truth.

Still how can you describe the alaskan pow, how does it feel, is it wet or not so wet does it even exist??
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post #4 of 32
4/7/08 at 8:10am
I've skied a lot in the Wasatch, heli-skied in Cananda, and skied Alaska for a week during which they had 5 feet of new snow. We skied Alyeska Resort and Cat skied with Chugach Powder Guides with my friend who was head guide for their heli operation at the time, so I've got a pretty good idea of the relative snow conditions.

The deal on Alaska heli-skiing is that because of the weather they only ski 50% of the time. The snow is much more of a maritime quality than Canada or down here, but still sweet if you can get where it's high or cold. The real attaction is the massive excellent terrain and the fact that the snow sticks to very steep slopes. All things being equal you can consistently ski much steeper terrain in Alaska than heli skiing the USA or Canada. If you put Wasatch fluff on Alaska heli terrain much of it probably wouldn't be skiable. Watch video of them ripping steep curtains in Alaska and imagine if that was waist deep super light. It just wouldn't work, everything would slide off.

If you want light go in the US or Canada, if you want steep go to Alaska.
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post #5 of 32
4/7/08 at 8:45am
Hmmm, all I know is if I am ripping knee deep pow in California or Utah I am having a good time. Never really thought about how Utah's snow was better. It was fuggin' fun at either place.
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post #6 of 32
4/7/08 at 8:57am
I just returned from skiing in Alaska. To view my trip report, go to Trip Reports & click on AK Heli-skiing 3/20-3/26 2008.

I went to Alaska for the terrain. My expectations where that we would do a lot of waiting around for weather windows. What I didn't expect was the quality of snow we got. Maybe my experience was out of the ordinary. I live in Utah, but I was getting face shots in Alaska!

Thanks,
JF
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post #7 of 32
4/7/08 at 10:05am
Thread Starter 
I read your great TR before making the thread. And what really amazed me were your words about the great snow quality. Even on photos it looks great.
And this is why I ask.
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post #8 of 32
4/8/08 at 6:52am
I have skied a lot at Alyeska and south central AK backcountry. If it is warm - which it can get near anchorage - the snow has a lot of moisture content. If it's cold - the snow is as good as utah and the terrain is much steeper more varried... and more beautiful. Don't get me wrong - I love utah! - but Alaska is that good.

Also, the mountains rise so abruptly that the first layer of mountains take the brunt of the moisture out of the snow. The second, third, fourth... twentieth layer of mountains get a much drier snow.

asland
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post #9 of 32
4/8/08 at 4:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by asland View Post
Also, the mountains rise so abruptly that the first layer of mountains take the brunt of the moisture out of the snow. The second, third, fourth... twentieth layer of mountains get a much drier snow.

asland
That's an important note.

I had the best snow of my life and the worst snow of my life within 3 days of each other in AK.
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post #10 of 32
4/9/08 at 8:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by killclimbz View Post
Hmmm, all I know is if I am ripping knee deep pow in California or Utah I am having a good time. Never really thought about how Utah's snow was better. It was fuggin' fun at either place.
My thoughts as well. I measure my power in cm or inches; I'm the last to complain about knee deep power being knee deep powder.
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post #11 of 32
4/9/08 at 8:15pm
In alaska, true storms come in wet, but when its cold and dry after the front the snow drys out and still sticks to those stupid steep faces. without the intial 'wetness" to the snow the snow would never stick to those face you see in TGR, MSP, elect.

I even saw a couple days here in utah where the snow was dryer the next day, it feels almost velvet like when the snow drys out overnight.

disclaimer I have never been to alaska but I would like to think I am slightly better informered than most on what happen in cold PNW locations.
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post #12 of 32
4/10/08 at 5:11am
apeyros,

I think going anywhere to ski, you are taking a risk. Timing & luck are everything. The group I went to AK with were there last year, & skied almost everyday. This year we only skied 2.5 days out of a possible 5, & even then they weren't full days. Personally, I would have made that trip for 1 of those runs! On my last day of skiing they did say it was the best of the season, but I thought it was pretty darn good the 1st day as well. As in anything, Your mileage may vary.

I lived in the Sierras for many years before moving to Utah, and although the quality of snow in Utah is more consistant, I've had snow just as deep & light in the Sierras.

I've skied in the Alps on a # of ocassions, & even though they are not known for great powder skiing, I have skied deep light powder everytime.

On the other hand, my brother went to Wiegle's when they were first starting out, & sat inside watching it rain for a week.

I all depends on the weather, & you can't depend on the weather!

Thanks,
JF
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post #13 of 32
4/10/08 at 8:58am
It does seem like heli and cat operators in interior BC are much more cautious about steep, open exposures than those in coastal BC or in AK. I've always assumed that's 'cause the snow is drier further east, and heavier, and thus more stable, in coastal BC and AK. But this I only surmise; my actual ski experience is only in the interior (and in the US).
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post #14 of 32
4/10/08 at 9:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4ster View Post
apeyros,

I think going anywhere to ski, you are taking a risk. Timing & luck are everything. The group I went to AK with were there last year, & skied almost everyday. This year we only skied 2.5 days out of a possible 5, & even then they weren't full days. Personally, I would have made that trip for 1 of those runs! On my last day of skiing they did say it was the best of the season, but I thought it was pretty darn good the 1st day as well. As in anything, Your mileage may vary.
You may have been willing to make that trip for one cosmic run, but if you look at the cost in time and money for most people to go AK heli-skiing, it approaches a $10,000 gamble. Statistically they only fly 50% of the time, so your odds of picking a ramdom week and getting your money's worth really depends on how much your money is worth to you.

When it's good heli-skiing is the best skiing on the planet, and worth every penny, but I can tell you from personal experience that playing ping pong and running up a bar tab in the fog or rain for a couple of days on your multi-thousand $$ vacation can be pretty depressing.

I say, If you can go definitely do it, but make sure your wallet and expectations are both in the appropriate condition.
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post #15 of 32
4/10/08 at 9:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post
In alaska, true storms come in wet, but when its cold and dry after the front the snow drys out and still sticks to those stupid steep faces. without the intial 'wetness" to the snow the snow would never stick to those face you see in TGR, MSP, elect.

I even saw a couple days here in utah where the snow was dryer the next day, it feels almost velvet like when the snow drys out overnight.

disclaimer I have never been to alaska but I would like to think I am slightly better informered than most on what happen in cold PNW locations.
I think you hit the nail on the head. The late Doug Coombs talks about this phenomenon in the movie "Steep". According to him, the drying out action produces snow that skis like velvet. He claims that AK powder is the best snow on the planet and he ought to know.
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post #16 of 32
4/10/08 at 10:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffda View Post
I think you hit the nail on the head. The late Doug Coombs talks about this phenomenon in the movie "Steep". According to him, the drying out action produces snow that skis like velvet. He claims that AK powder is the best snow on the planet and he ought to know.
I can't argue with Coombs, but as long as we are talking powder quality, I think it is probably the "best snow on the planet" for skiing the AK steeps. Not to say that I wouldn't take "velvet" any day, but there are probably some "cold smoke" afficianados with an equally valid opinion.
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post #17 of 32
4/10/08 at 11:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post
You may have been willing to make that trip for one cosmic run, but if you look at the cost in time and money for most people to go AK heli-skiing, it approaches a $10,000 gamble. Statistically they only fly 50% of the time, so your odds of picking a ramdom week and getting your money's worth really depends on how much your money is worth to you.

When it's good heli-skiing is the best skiing on the planet, and worth every penny, but I can tell you from personal experience that playing ping pong and running up a bar tab in the fog or rain for a couple of days on your multi-thousand $$ vacation can be pretty depressing.

I say, If you can go definitely do it, but make sure your wallet and expectations are both in the appropriate condition.

Yeah, I agree. That's why a place like CPG is good. You never get shut down completely.
I've had great skiing in AK, but I've never had over the head blower there.
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post #18 of 32
4/10/08 at 11:15am
Yeah, Chugach Powder Guides has a great set up with backup cat skiing if the choppers can't fly, and Alyeska area skiing if the avi danger is too high for cat skiing, and all from a nice hotel. I had a nice day on their cats when were went "standby." The weather was good, the copters were flying, and we got some righteous vertical in the cat since the heli skiers didn't need it.
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post #19 of 32
4/10/08 at 2:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post
You may have been willing to make that trip for one cosmic run, but if you look at the cost in time and money for most people to go AK heli-skiing, it approaches a $10,000 gamble.
My total bill for the trip was around $1,500.00, No where near $10K. Yes, the weather is always a gamble, but I would've gladly paid more to fly more. Next time I will stay longer. The biggest expense for me was getting there.

Thanks,

JF
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post #20 of 32
4/10/08 at 8:46pm
Thread Starter 
Ok. guys, I think if someone goes there the last week of February till middle March he's very likely to get some runs and some faceshots.

...and run out of money.
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post #21 of 32
4/11/08 at 11:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4ster View Post
My total bill for the trip was around $1,500.00, No where near $10K. Yes, the weather is always a gamble, but I would've gladly paid more to fly more. Next time I will stay longer. The biggest expense for me was getting there.

Thanks,

JF
How did you do it for only $1500? Even when we had a group and only paid for the Hobb's time, it was still $750/day, for the heli only. But we got a lot of runs for $750!
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post #22 of 32
4/11/08 at 4:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHREDHEAD View Post
How did you do it for only $1500? Even when we had a group and only paid for the Hobb's time, it was still $750/day, for the heli only. But we got a lot of runs for $750!
Shredhead,
My $1500 estimate may be a bit low, but still under $2,000.
I sent you a PM to explain.

Thanks,

JF
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post #23 of 32
4/13/08 at 10:31am
I said, "if you look at the cost in time and money for most people to go AK heli-skiing, it approaches a $10,000 gamble." I am assuming that most people don't live in Alaska and are going for a week, because you don't fly up there for a day of heli skiing. If you factor in the base heli ski cost, plane tickets and transportion from the lower 48, additional vertical cost if you have a good week, bar tab, tip, new equipment you buy using the trip for an excuse, lost time from work, etc. I don't think you can do a week heli trip at a place like Valdez or other inland AK heli operations for a whole lot less than $10,000 of total cost to your life, unless you've got connections along the way. Even if you are in Valdez, you are looking at over $1,000 for a one day trip.

I'm not trying to be negative, I've been looking at going back to AK to heli-ski for a couple of years, but there are not a lot of cheap options that I can find.
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post #24 of 32
4/13/08 at 5:42pm
Actually, depends on where you live, flying up to alaska isn't all that expensive for someone from say, Seatle. It's not that different than for the rest of us flying "out west" from the east coast.

The cost of the heli is of course, steep. But that's seperate from the fact it's in Alaska. There's simply no way to go "cheap" as soon as you bring a helicoptor into the mix.

In fact, if I were to go heli skiing (not any time soon), I'd target somewhere with good snow and terrain. So if what I like lies in AK, so be it. I don't see it any different than doing it in say, interior BC, for example.
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post #25 of 32
4/15/08 at 1:28pm
At the current exchange rate Alaska heliskiing is cheaper than interior Canada for a one week package (CMH, Wiegele, etc.).

I was at Alyeska last year during the same time frame as 4ster's trip this year. The one day I got in the heli was no contest the best of my 19 days lifetime in terms of both snow (waist deep with frequent face shots) and terrain. My son got a second heli day 3 days later with some steeper shots as the snow had settled some. I had an outstanding powder day on Alyeska's North Face during the storm before my big heli day. I also had 2 days in the snowcat. I think the combination of options at Alyeska/CPG is hard to beat.
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post #26 of 32
4/24/08 at 7:00am

A few thoughts on AK Powder

I really enjoyed the depth and consistency of the snow we hit a few weeks ago in the Chugach. Lots of fresh. Felt both light and yet dense/consistent in a good way.

Aspect, elevation, and that particular day's weather all made a big difference.

imho the favorite powder runs I've ever skied, due to the deepness, consistency, and steep pitches.

We skied a week with a lot of instability due to new snow, so many of the places we might have hit were "off limits".

Hopefully this video compilation gives a flavor of the snow. Had more than a few face shots along the way.

Movie may take a while to load. It is a large file.

http://web.mac.com/oncloud9/iWeb/VT%20Ski/Movie.html
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post #27 of 32
7/15/08 at 11:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by apeyros View Post
It's well known that the drier the powder the better the experience...
This seems like a fun one to reopen for summer...

I disagree with the premise above. Maritime snow rules.

Give me decent middle-of-the-road water content any day. That plus wide skis opens a world of options. Wanna float? No worries. Wanna dive? No problem. Wanna do high angle turns on or in the snowpack? Sweet! Core shots - not likely

Not that I object to super dry powder! It is better than most non-powder. But given the choice, I'll take fresh deep snow with enough substance to give me that floaty gig with lots of options for play & speed variation. I've had a number of interesting discussions recently where other folks have expressed similar opinions. As a result, I've concluded the "dryer is better" thing is a bit of myth. Thoughts?
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post #28 of 32
7/15/08 at 12:15pm
I couldn't agree more spindrift. A lot of that cold blower stuff is nothing but air, give me a little bouancy anyday. Some of my best days have started out as rain, softened the base & sent everyone home. Then the temps begin to drop it dumps with some graupel mixed in, & it turns out to be "Strangely Good" !

Thanks,

JF
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post #29 of 32
7/15/08 at 2:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift View Post
This seems like a fun one to reopen for summer...

I disagree with the premise above. Maritime snow rules.

Give me decent middle-of-the-road water content any day. That plus wide skis opens a world of options. Wanna float? No worries. Wanna dive? No problem. Wanna do high angle turns on or in the snowpack? Sweet! Core shots - not likely

Not that I object to super dry powder! It is better than most non-powder. But given the choice, I'll take fresh deep snow with enough substance to give me that floaty gig with lots of options for play & speed variation. I've had a number of interesting discussions recently where other folks have expressed similar opinions. As a result, I've concluded the "dryer is better" thing is a bit of myth. Thoughts?
I prefer large amount of low density, and small to large amount of high density, untracked. after it gets tracked up low density still skis like powder and high density kinda of suck after its gets tracked out.
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post #30 of 32
8/12/08 at 11:32am
spindrift........

Excellent point. I have been waiting a long time around here for someone to talk about this.

Back here in the East a powder day is different than a powder day in Utah. I've had both and enjoyed both but, I really do like snow with a bit of "substance" to it. Call me foolish. The snow was soo light in Utah it didn't give me a sense of "turn control" that I get back here in the East on a powder day. In Utah while making a turn it almost feels like you are sliding sideways in the middle of the turn where as back here in the East you feel like you can "carve" a turn in powder.

This is what I tell people back here what the snow was like in Utah.....

I could stand in powder up to my mid thigh's and pivot my ski's in the snow like a hot knife through butter.
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