If you could live anywhere? - Page 5

I remember several bouts of -50 to -60F air temps in Jackson. One time was New Years eve circa 1984, we were at the big party at Snow King and decided to walk to the Rancher. Probably not real smart.......

Another time I was heading out to the village maybe circa 1988 to work early in the morning and Mrs Chambers just called in on KMTN that it was -56F out in Wilson, about 2 min later my engine ceased up. Took two weeks to rebuild the engine.

Back then you had to have some sort of engine/tank heater to be able to start your truck so you could get to work during those cold spells. I had a Landcruiser in those days which were built very tight. The vehicle made alot of wierd noises when you first got going. Also the needle on the speedometer would go around in circles till things warmed up.

Max, I multi quoted you here not to make fun, but because I now get why you occasionally get irritated when your ski pants sustain injury & you don't sound happy about it. I would not be a nice person if I had to deal with living or skiing with wind that never let up. Or if I had to live in constant fog, especially if it was freezing fog & I wanted to ski & have fun. But that is me. I like variety, but truly enjoy temperate, as well as Sunshine & Blue Skies. And nice clean snow.

Weather & conditions DO make a difference in our overall well being & happiness. It is also an individual's perspective of which weather conditions makes them miserable or which conditions they enjoy living, working & playing in. Sounds like you are looking for a new Community to move to with skiing you can truly enjoy on most days. Good luck & I hope you can balance it all out & the entire family loves where you find it. If it is an awesome place, there may be more people showing up, creating liftlines, etc. Or, if not tons of money coming in, then older slower lifts. Patience is good when you can appreciate what you are surrounded by. If you can't see it, or its fogged over, well.. it's hard to appreciate.


My cousins live there, but come to Tahoe to ski. Go figure. Must be the company here. Or the exchange rate.

Honestly I think for people who don't want to live in a mountain town but want great skiing I think seattle is the place.

Must be the driveway.

We lived in Cottonwood Heights, which is virtually 100% Mormon. We had a steady stream (3 groups on some days) of teens at our door with the "Book of Mormon" each Saturday morning. They'd begin at 8:00 am, sharp.

Our local neighbors were affable and inviting. We enjoyed their company. After about 6 months, they apparently concluded we weren't converting, and all contact ceased. THEY withdrew, not us.

Other non and ex-Mormons we knew explained this was SOP. You're given 1/2 a year. After that, you're either on or off the train.

Saying: "It didn't work for us", isn't condemning anyone. It's simply saying: "It didn't work".

I didn't care about being accepted by Mormons. But, it's harder on woman, who're usually more social than guys. They can't plug into the community. If they don't join the religion, they don't exist.

It may be different in Sandy, but that was our experience in CH.

It isn't just the proselytizing or the ostracation ...it's the blandness of culture in SLC that comes from an overbearing and nearly universal religion/culture that drowns out or weeds out the other options.

Love the skiing - could never live there.

It keeps coming back to Vancouver/Whistler...or Europe for me. Now if I could just get them to take me in and give me a job...

Happy here in the Vail/Edwards area for 25+ years- 2 big mountains, great weather, record snows, easy access, nearby airports, Aspen 80 miles, Steamboat 75. Summit Cty. in 40 min.

I have been to most every major area and would suggest Nelson BC, Rossland BC, Aspen, Whistler, Revelstoke (next big thing), Then maybe of skiing was not so critical-- Boulder, Napa Valley, Santa Barbara, Rancho Sante Fe, or Maui.

Jackson, Sun Valley area, Telluride, Whitefish are all nice but too far off the beaten path for me.

Our North Country is definitely behind the curve. Some of these communities actually have declining populations with appreciable numbers of un-lived in decaying housing units. People are moving away, I assume, because there is simply no way for them to make a living there. The up-side, for those moving there, is that with the shut down of the paper mills, the air is no longer permeated with that unlovely stench.

SLC is fairly diverse and a pretty fun small city. Park City is a great town with lots of culture and fun things to do, Layton has a lot of transplants and Ogden is getting the same. Both Layton and Ogden are close to Snowbasin and PowMtn and are pretty decent places to live.

I get that some people have a hard time in the suburbs of SLC, even many Mormons have a hard time in the suburbs. The culture in the burbs can make you feel isolated. If you are a transplant pretty much anywhere north of I80 to downtown is very livable. I have always found this area, I80 to downtown and up into the avenues, to feel a bit like Portland.

For me the ideal would be to have an ocean close to the skiing. Bellingham comes awfully close to ideal. Wenatchee is pretty close but a little more isolated. Tahoe is amazing but the crowds turn me off. I could easily live in interior BC.

Lots of great places, too bad we only have one life to live.

I chose Park City.

I think alot of your additude towards these issue has tons to do with age, where as there are a ton of transplats around my age to socialize with, it might not be as easy if someone is middled aged. If more people can stay and make this a permenant home like myself it might be easier to get people to stay.

Also for me to be honest I have pretty close-net group of friends here in SLC, we dont go to the city to have fun(why would you when you have the biggest playground in the world surrounding you). We go to the wasatch, unitas, park city or the vastness of southern Utah. Its just cheap and easy to live here.

I think you're right. It's partially an age thing. I'm in my 50's. In their 20's, guys are tribal - they hang as groups. It's universal, and normal. As you age, you still hang with your buds. But, it's not so much a group thing.

Also, young guys are more likely to be independent of community fabric. They're less concerned with "fitting in", except within their small group.

Social-acceptance is a low priority for me. But, for wives, it's huge. They're built differently. They're programmed for community involvement. If it doesn't happen for them, forget it (feel free to chime-in, ladies).

Finally, it's also geographic. Cottonwood Heights is suberbia to the hilt. There are zero young singles hanging-out in communal arrangements. CH is all picture-perfect lawns, well-kept gardens, and close-knit families - a George Bush dream come true, with a Mormon twist.

I suspect Mormon suburbanites of CH differ hugely from the groups you know in Sandy.

I probably would have liked Sandy (independent and non-complient as I am). I would have found ski-bums there of my vintage.

But, with wife in tow, Sandy also wouldn't work. Women need community.

If you're married, and non-Mormon, Utah becomes a tough sell.

Park City could be the exception.

I have heard more than one SLC resident bitch about the air quality, and the smog down in the valley looked nasty on two out of the three trips I made there this past season. It sure made an impression on me. I don't know what it's like on a day to day basis though.

If I were single and apolitical, Jackson. Since I'm not either, Santa Fe.

I found this quite odd. While driving from the LCC to the airport last Sunday I noticed a huge black cloud of smog on top of downtown, and it indeed looked nasty. What's the reason for so much polution?

The SLC area has some of the best snow and terrain in the country. Unfortunately Salt Lake City, in my opinion, is an unlivable place. I don't care how many pro skiers end up moving there. They are still vastly outnumbered by religious wackos. Bummer really!

Such extreme feelings toward SLC/Utah, it almost borders on bigotry.

SLC itself and Park City are actually liberal enclaves, many of you who can't tolerate living around religious conservatives could actually have pretty nice lives in these locations. Even Ogden and Layton are pretty open.

I am not a Utah native, or religious, and I have no problem here. Same with most of my neighbors and friends who are also not religious and some that are. I have many friends who are Utah natives and they don't have horns. Even my Mormon friends don't have horns, I checked.

The problem with the pollution is that SLC gets an inversion during the winter and the mountains lock in the pollution. The state has developed a pretty good public transit system and it is really well used. The problem is many people still drive to work.

Hopefully it will get better but it will never go away completely.

Well, as I, a confirmed and steadfast "religious wacko", along with two fellow wack jobs, dropped into Y chute at Snowbasin yesterday, enjoying the delcious powder on a perfect spring day, I realized that the "Geography of Bliss" (Eric Weiner - GREAT book) for any skier starts in the mind's attitude and ends with smoothly linked turns.

And that, my friends, can be attained on just about any mountain with snow.

Thank you. Nice post.

I'm Home

I lay back in the weeds and watched this thread for quite awhile before deciding to chime in. I thought and thought about folks that took the easy out and listed several places to move around to annually, realistic for some? Definitely a fantasy for me. I can't think of one single place I'd like better year round. If I could live anywhere (not EVERYWHERE), I would live pretty close to where I currently live, just in a house big enough for the kids to have their own rooms. That's correct, right here in good old Durham, NC. I'm 3 hours from 5500 ele with 1100 vert that also has 100% snow making when needed. I'm 2 hours from some of the best beaches in the continental US. I'm 3 hours from two major theme parks. I don't live near any major fault lines. We're far enough inland to not bear the brunt of hurricanes. We have fantastic golf weather 9 months of the year and are an hour from Pinehurst. There is a top 10 education value college across town and a top ten academic smaller school across the street. Taxes are reasonable, if not lower than most. The job market is as good here as anywhere, better than most. I guess being 3 hours or less from everything is preferable to being 30 minutes from any one thing to me. The local entertainment and professional sports options are about the only thing that I wish were a little better. But, we do have a competitive NHL franchise, a good minor league baseball team and stadium-very affordable and easy to acquire tickets, and excellent college sports. Yep, I think I'm home here.

Yup, I have been to NC a lot on business and I do believe people in that area are living the good life. Nice weather, nice beaches, good education system, beautiful scenery, and really nice people.

Not a bad place at all.

Ever been to Waco?:

As a recent transplant to Utah, I would like to give you my impression of life here (... so far). I have to agree with many of the posts, including the smog from inversions in the winter, the culture of the city of Salt Lake and suburbs, and especially the quality of skiing. However, I do not agree with much of the generalization regarding LDS/Mormans.

First of all, I am not Morman and don't plan to convert. But I can honestly say that in our 1st full year as Utah residents, we have never been approached even once by the "religious wackos" (as some refer to them). Maybe we picked a location that is exempt from that, but whatever reason, we have been left alone.

It seems so easy for the uninformed to jump on the bandwagon and talk like they have first hand experience. To be honest, the "horror stories" people told us prior to our move nearly convinced my wife to cancel the whole thing. However, I am glad to report that our family is quite happy with the relocation. In fact, my kids have more friends with the same interests than they ever had back in the midwest. And best of all, my wife loves the area and has a wonderful "circle of friends".

For now, we are quite happy in Utah. That could change when the kids are grown and gone, but for now, we are "living our dream".

I'm glad you're having this experience. It's nice to know it can happen - especially for your wife and kids.

In the year we were there, I met other transplants, who came for the same reason as us - outdoors and skiing. To varying degrees, they shared our experience.

It seems your location has buffered you from door-to-door recruiting drives. It's no accident that Utah is the remaining state were doorway solicitation is still legal. Once you've been on the receiving end of those intrusions for severals months, patience wears thin.

One of my Utah friends was born and raised there (but non-Mormon). He said his children were openly ostracized at school. At age 12, his kids' life-long friends were apparently told by their parents (at the urging of "elders") to discontinue contact, unless the family converted.

His kids were devastated, as were their Mormon friends. It was a bitter pill for a family that had lived all their life by Utah values, but didn't join the church.

Every person's experience of Utah will differ. Some, like you, will find Shangri-la. Others, like BushwackerinPA, will find an enclave of like-minded souls that are self-sufficient, and live outside the system.

In our case, we encountered the issues everyone hears about, as did every non-Mormon we knew in Utah.

I patroller I met in Park City said it best: "Life here is great, if you can cultivate indifference, and not mind the political social intrusion of the church".

What political social intrusion? Alcohol? You can get drunk in Utah.

I really don't get what people mean when they say that. I get the cultural differences but never understood how it can greatly impact your personal life.

I also question your Utah friends story. I know many mormons and I don't know anyone who would tell their children to discontinue contact unless their friends convert. That sounds nutty.

If it is true I am sorry for your friend, that just sucks.

I dunno, maybe I have just cultivated indifference.

Honestly, some of the most provincial narrow minded people I have ever met in my life have been from San Francisco, LA, New York Boston, large cultural centers.

I hate to be the defender of Utah but it gets tiresome reading these posts about my adopted state that simply do not reflect my experience, in any way.

No intrusion?

a) there are 7 liquor stores within the majority of SLC (in CO, there are 7 within 5 miles).
b) Sam Adams beer is $15.00 per case in Utah, vs $7.50 anywhere else (an that was several years ago). The manager of the liquor store flat-out told me it was a surcharge mandated by city council to discourage beer consumption.
c) Condoms must be purchased directly from the Pharmacist, like an controlled substance.
d) Zoning laws in SLC favor the church. Ordinances regarding use of public land were overruled by eminent domain claims by the church. Even public land on boulevards outside the main church are controlled by the church.
e) The church OWNS city council. Separation between church and state - right

Regarding my friends kids - yes it's true.

I don't have a problem with churches doing what they want. In Utah, the church has a problem with you not doing what THEY want.

The Mormon church utilizes civic government to impose their will, and values, on non-believers.

Finally, the elephant in the room: polygamy. It's no more banished in SLC than it is in Eldorado Texas.

You can sit in Wendy's and watch multi-wife clans enter. In outer areas like Orem and Provo, "don't ask-don't tell" is the rule. It's no secret, and it's everywhere.

Per se, I don't care much about polygamy. If you want multiple wives, be my guest. But, in practice, it manifests as pedophilia.

If you like Utah, good for you. There are some fine people there.

But, the public perception of Utah's intolerance, and bullying by the Mormon church, isn't a random anomaly.

Reputations don't happen by accident. They're earned.

[quote=Captain_Strato;897839]

Sorry you had bad time here Captain. I've seen it happen to people that are transplants and to people that have lived here their whole lives. Having lived in Utah for a long time I would like to add a few comments if I may:

a) there are 7 liquor stores within the majority of SLC (in CO, there are 7 within 5 miles).

There are close to 20 (including 2 really extensive wine stores) in the Salt Lake Valley. I actually only need one.

b) Sam Adams beer is $15.00 per case in Utah, vs $7.50 anywhere else (an that was several years ago). The manager of the liquor store flat-out told me it was a surcharge mandated by city council to discourage beer consumption.

I like to drink the award winning local beers. Liquors store prices are indeed higher than in surrounding states. The prices are set by the State Liquour Commisssion, not the city council (Thus the price you pay for a bottle of booze in Moab will be the same price you pay in downtown Salt Lake)

The high sin taxes in Utah go, in part, towards funding our schools. So when I get drunk I'm doing it "for the childern"


c) Condoms must be purchased directly from the Pharmacist, like an controlled substance.

Not true. They are out in plain sight right by the Preperation H. (Not that I have to buy either)

d) Zoning laws in SLC favor the church. Ordinances regarding use of public land were overruled by eminent domain claims by the church. Even public land on boulevards outside the main church are controlled by the church.

It's true that the Mormon Church pays no property tax. Neither does any other church. This pisses me off. They swing a lot weight around here in regards to zoning too, that's for sure.

Don't really know what you're referring to about "public land outside the main church". Public land, is that, public land. You should see the ani-Mormon protesters with bull-horns that stand on the city street outside the Mormon Temple.

Don't try anything like that on Church owned property. Guys in suits will get you.

e) The church OWNS city council. Separation between church and state - right

The Salt Lake City Council is a mix of Mormon and Non Mormon. It changes with each election. The last five Mayors have been Democrats.(Google Rocky Anderson, DeeDee Corradini, Ted Wilson)

Having said that, the Mormon Church will usually get its way. It is not the City Council that is the problem, it is the State Legislature. Those guys are wack-jobs. They are the real problem in this state

I believe that your friend's kids could have been ostracized. When I was growing up in Logan in the early 60's my brother and I were told by neighbor kids that we couldn't play with them because we were not Mormon. Not a good thing to hear as a child. Luckily we moved to Moab soon after, and discovered a whole different world.

Polygamy does exist here. Don't like that either.

Politics and religion just don't bother me I guess.

The only door to door prosletizing we have had here in Murray in 15 years have been the Jehova's Witnesses. (Its true the Mormons will give up eventually, especially if you keep inviting them in for a beer )

There are plusses and minuses to living here, like anywhere I guess.

So far the plusses are still winning.



quote]

Hey everyone!

A while back I started a thread asking some questions about skiing in Utah... most of which were actually mountain and conditions related.

http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=68692

I'm going to talk the gang into going to Utah this year, and have discussed it with one buddy, who seems on board. If we stay in the SLC city area, are we going to notice the religion thing? Is it everywhere? How about the pubs and restaurants, are they much "different"? Most importantly, will we have trouble finding beer???!!!! In Colorado, we weren't too impressed with the "Sunday" beer, seeing as it was the Superbowl. Sounds like Utah could be even worse!!!!

If you are coming to Utah to drink, then you have your priorities backward. Most visit Utah to ski at one or more of the 9 resorts within 30 to 90 minutes of SLC. Some even say skiing in Utah can be quite good .

As visitors to the state you will more that likely not notice the "religion thing" ... unless of course you decide to visit one of the prominent SLC fixtures like the Morman Temple, Tabernacle Choir, Cathedral of the Madeline, etc. As you can probably guess, most religious organizations are looking for long term commitment from their members and will typically leave the visitors alone.

As for the alcohol thing, packaged liquor, wine, and heavy beer (over 3.2%) are available in State Liquor Stores and Package Agencies. Most pubs and restaurants serve beer and alcohol like anywhere else, and many of the local brewpubs offer excellent micro-brews. Nightclubs are usually private but allow you to purchase a visitor card for something like $4.00 for 3 weeks.

I lived in Oyster Bay, NY most of my life. Used to look up at planes overhead
and wonder where they were going and wish I was on them. Now I live in
Utah look up at a plane and dont care where it's going. Cause there is no
place better than where I am.

Make sure to try the polygamy porter: http://www.wasatchbeers.com/polygporter.html
Polygamy porter. Why have just one?