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DIN settings

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 
So how do you decide what DIN setting? It seems like it comes down to trial and error. (and error can be quite painful)

According to this website http://www.dinsetting.com/ as a level 3 skier I should be at a DIN setting of 8.5 and as a 3+ skier i should be at 10.

My DIN's are set at 10, last weekend I had a prerelease at relatively high speed and narrowly avoided disaster which made me think about my DIN settings.

How foolish is it for me to set the bindings above 10?
post #2 of 23
What brand of bindings were you running. and which released the toe or heel. I feel High speed prerelease is directly related to a lack of elastic travel. look/rossi pivot/axial are the best. The new jester must be good too.

For me it is not safe to ski high speed crud, on salomon's or rossi ftx. Shock loads seem to knock the heels out. I'm not sure on others have not tried them. My marker's on my p60 custom 178cm seem to be ok. But it could be the short ski.
post #3 of 23
I don't ski at the level to have my DIN setting above 10, but all the guys that I have skiied with, brothers, dad, friends, all ski at 12. I think its alot of personal preference, with regards to your weight and level, but my brother skis at 12 and is definately not a level 3 skiier, he just doesn't like the skis to come off. If I were you, I would set them to 12, to avoid prerelease. It's super annoying.
post #4 of 23
The determining factor for me is, where I'm skiing, what i'm skiing and what skis i'm on.

If i'm just cruising around my local resort, i'm on a ski with bindings set at 7.5, where they should be.

if i know i'm going to be pounding bumps with the guys, then i'm up to 10

If i'm on a ski trip West and I know i'm going backcountry or hiking chutes, i'm up to 12. Why, because I worry more about pre-release in areas where my life might be at risk if I fall, and losing a ski in those places isn't going to be fun.

Powder skiing, my powder boards are set around 10 or 11 in that range.
post #5 of 23
Thread Starter 
Interesting comment energyrail. I am skiing on Salomons and it was a heel release. I was skiing on top of frozen crud and didn't even feel a hard impact, I heard something, looked down and there was one ski below me and one 30' up the hill behind me and it was all downhill for me from there.

It looks like I'm going to be reading up on bindings, I've never really paid much attention to binding brands. Skis- I always have the latest and the greatest, bindings have always been an afterthought (or no thought at all)
post #6 of 23
DIN is only part of the equation. A proper forward pressure setting is extremely important.

Certain Salomon models have a problem with the toe wings becoming loose over time, which can lead to a lack of retention (and a lack of torsional stability) even with a high DIN setting.

And of course, you haven't said anything about what you were doing when you had your high-speed prerelease, nor what qualified it as a prerelease rather than a proper release.
post #7 of 23
Not that we've ever had any threads before on this, but...you might search. Generally, at a DIN of 10 and above - assuming you're under 49 and a touch above average weight (rec of 8.5 suggests this) - you won't get as many binding "prereleases," but you increase the risk your ligaments or bones will release instead. So really, this is a cost benefit analysis. If your "prereleases" are causing you bodily harm, or if you ski in places where ANY release could lead to your demise from sliding off a cliff or tumbling through the gates at 60 mph, then crank the suckers up and also shift to something with more elasticity. OTOH, if coming out of your skis is not likely as threatening as the increased possibility of a torn up knee or broken fib, then 10 is already too high. Sit down and figure it out. There is no perfect binding, and no real solution here, just tradeoffs...
post #8 of 23
Thread Starter 
Alpinedad-hmm, brand new bindings, forward pressure and DIN set by quality ski shop at 8 1/2 I upped the DIN to 10 but don't know how to check the forward pressure and don't know if that changes when you change the DIN.

What was I doing? skiing fast on rough hard pack, my outside ski came off about 2/3 of the way through a turn. I actually didn't fall but had to do a relatively quick turn on one ski to avoid a metal snow fence. I called it a prerelease because I would have preferred to have the ski remain attached to my boot. I really don't know what technically is a proper release.

For those of you at Tahoe last weekend this occurred on Sunday at Sugar Bowl. Saturday we received about three inches of very wet, gloppy snow, Sunday arrived, the temperature was in the mid 20's, cloudy, windy and the prior days snowfall was frozen which made for pretty interesting skiing. I didn't mean to turn this thread into a trip report but the off piste skiing in areas with no tracks was fantastic, but my little incident occurred in what had been skied up crud the day before.

Thanks Beyond for your comments. It's just a difficult balancing act between broken bones/torn ligaments and potentially more serious injury in some situations. I just had one of those moments this past weekend when you realize how vulnerable you actually are. Eventhough I ski fast I actually rarely fall, I'm over 40 days so far this year and have probably fallen less than 5 times.
post #9 of 23
Aaaah.

Well, conditions were really beyond the suck Sunday.
post #10 of 23
FWIW, I have found that 3+ isn't that stiff, but can depend on a variety of factors. I have pre-released a few times on race skis at my DIN setting of 3+ (mostly on soft or poorly groomed snow) which is quite scary. OTOH, I mostly stay in my bindings elsewhere. I don't think I pre-released a single time all season, skiing off-piste, and when I did blow it, I came out of the bindings. The exception was when I didn't release and broke my leg, but that was a weird circumstance and while traversing at a slow speed. The way I fell, who knows if I had come out at a DIN of 4?

Most aggressive skiers I know put their DIN about 12 or so, but I have yet to pre-release on my 3+ setting, so I will be a bit more conservative and stick with it. As long as you don't pop out while skiing a no-fall chute. That could be pretty serious.
post #11 of 23
Ya my salomons do the same thing. They were mounted on 198 p40 fl energyrail. And small bumps at high speed and gone goes the ski. din at 8,9,10 didn't seem to make any difference. So now if i'm going to ski like that. I ski something that is meant for it. 192 powertrac's, morrison pro 193cm all mounted with pivot or axial.

But I have noticed that in the last few years I have gotten a little more finesse. Back when I had prerelease problems I was doing big turns everywhere kind of a park and ride but at very high speed. I weigh 185lbs and only ski at 8-9 din.

I've noticed a pattern that people blame prerelease on lack of forward pressure. This is possible but not always the case. basically if the heel is pushed down when you retreive the ski it wasn't the problem.

If you reteived the ski and the heel is still down. but you were sure the binding let you out the front. (forward fall) Then it may be a case of an extreme lack of forward pressure. The boot actually sllipped out of the binding without it coming up. Had this happen a few times when I was younger(bad mount job). The other forward pressure problems are associated with the toe piece and flexing of the ski releasing the boot.
post #12 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinedad View Post
Well, conditions were really beyond the suck Sunday.
Sorry for the cryptic post. What I meant to suggest is that I wouldn't necessarily read too much into a single prerelease in the conditions we had on Sunday. If it happens again, I'd start to worry.

In the interim, I'd probably check the forward pressure, using the appropriate vintage Salomon tech manual as a guide.

I don't know the model of Salomons, but there are two possibilities.

the consumer line (typically 14 DIN and lower, although the 14 LAB and STH12 are exceptions) bindings use an adjustment tab. According to page 14 of the 2008 manual:
Quote:
The forward pressure is correct when the arrow on the adjustment tab lines up within the scribed area at the end of the heel housing or when the arrow of the rear of the heel housing lines up within the scribed area on the adjustment tab. If this adjustment is incorrect, remove the boot from the binding, lift the adjustment tab using a Salomon Adjustment Tool and slide the heel to the desired position. Re-insert the boot and check the adjustment.
On the racing line, the 2008 manual (p. 11) says that you "adjust the forward pressure to align the top of the head screw with the back of the heel track." The "head screw" is the smaller screw under the DIN adjustment screw.
post #13 of 23
one other thought ....

Wet snow. Any possibility there was snow on boot sole when you stepped in the bindings? Is common and ANY snow on boot sole causes problems when stepping into bindings and possible incorrect function.

Mike
post #14 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikehoyt View Post
Wet snow.
The wet snow was Saturday. This happened on Sunday, after it froze over.
post #15 of 23
I set my DINs according to my past experiences + some calculator aid. Calc says 8 for me, but I can step out of that. I have had several releases at 9, so I set my free skiing skis at 10, slalom racers at 14, GS racers at 12-13, and my slip skis at 17 (comp 30s, they dont go lower than 17 on toes). Rule of thumb for racing is that at low speeds you dont want skis to come off, and as your speed increases the more you would want a ski to release in the case of a fall.
post #16 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rise To The Top View Post
I set my DINs according to my past experiences + some calculator aid. Calc says 8 for me, but I can step out of that. I have had several releases at 9, so I set my free skiing skis at 10, slalom racers at 14, GS racers at 12-13, and my slip skis at 17 (comp 30s, they dont go lower than 17 on toes). Rule of thumb for racing is that at low speeds you dont want skis to come off, and as your speed increases the more you would want a ski to release in the case of a fall.
So I should drop down to maybe a Marker 12.0 for SG skis, and perhaps get some Marker 30.0 bindings for standing around while coaching?
post #17 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltron View Post
So I should drop down to maybe a Marker 12.0 for SG skis, and perhaps get some Marker 30.0 bindings for standing around while coaching?
Naw, I actually got the 30s as a joke. I'm probably going to put them on my SG skis when I get them later this year. Variations in settings change from person to person, some people want their SG skis to stay on when they do flips after falling, some dont.
post #18 of 23
Forward pressure depends on binding design. Some have a set fwd pressure regardless of setting. Several older designs increased fwd pressure as DIN setting increased.

You should understand that a manufacturers' DIN setting represents a COMPROMISE between performance and safety, as decided by the binding manufacturer, with a greater emphasis on safety. They do not want a lawsuit for a binding that did not release when it should have, so they have established conservative settings that typically will release at a lower torque value.

The likelihood for premature release is a function of binding performance attributes like anti-shock capability (return to center force, binding travel, etc.) and the actual situation you're in (high speed impact shock vs. low speed torquing). It's different every time. Hence, turning up your binding reduces the likelihood for pre-release (and any injury that could occur) but increases the likelihood for non-release (and the resultant injury that will occur).

It's all about tradeoffs and there is no perfect answer. Turn up your bindings at your own risk. Or if prerelease is a problem, get a binding with better antishock capabilities.
post #19 of 23
Whatever a shop, or I, might crank my bindings to, I periodically test them while stationary, to see if I can twist/step of them. Either on my living room floor, or just arriving at the slopes. If I can't get out of them just stand there, I know I don't want to be tumbling out control with them like that.
post #20 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by couloir8 View Post
Interesting comment energyrail. I am skiing on Salomons and it was a heel release. I was skiing on top of frozen crud and didn't even feel a hard impact, I heard something, looked down and there was one ski below me and one 30' up the hill behind me and it was all downhill for me from there.

It looks like I'm going to be reading up on bindings, I've never really paid much attention to binding brands. Skis- I always have the latest and the greatest, bindings have always been an afterthought (or no thought at all)
As far as going above a level 3+.....I get a 11 din on level 3+, but my normal freeskiing din is 13. I go higher if I'm on a speed oriented ski. This is on race stock/metal bindings, which favor retention over release. If you fall rarely, and are comfortable with your bindings not coming off in most falls, then by all means crank them up.

The second factor is that not all bindings are created equal. The average 12 din consumer binding releases far too easily. If you want much better retention and elasticity, you need to go to something from a company's race stock lineup. Such as Salomon S916's or STH916, Look p18, px15, px18, Rossi FKS 155 or 185, etc. If you have a din below 10 but still ski agressively, the Rossi FKS 120 or Salomon STH12 are very good choices (however, if you are around a 10, the FKS155 is a great choice).

Indeed, bindings are the most underrated peice of ski gear....they do a very important job and the performance between different models is noticable.
post #21 of 23
I DIN at 10.5...I actually turn the Din down on several of my skis.

170cm Progressor = DIN of 8.5
179K2 PE = DIN of 9.0
189cm K2 Seth = DIN of 11
192cm Atomic Thug = DIN of 12.
post #22 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by couloir8 View Post
So how do you decide what DIN setting? It seems like it comes down to trial and error. (and error can be quite painful)

According to this website http://www.dinsetting.com/ as a level 3 skier I should be at a DIN setting of 8.5 and as a 3+ skier i should be at 10.

My DIN's are set at 10, last weekend I had a prerelease at relatively high speed and narrowly avoided disaster which made me think about my DIN settings.

How foolish is it for me to set the bindings above 10?
Using that as a type 3, I'm at DIN 7, but at 3+ I'm 8.5. Quite a jump.
I find for my typical skiing a DIN of 7.5 works.

The thing with the Tryolia bindings is that the heel sets down in a v groove, so if your heel is releasing upwards it is free to rotate, but if your stomping down it stays put, so you don't have to crank it up too much to stay in them when you're landing on edge.

Now if I were to go skiing 90 mph in a no-fall zone, I would crank them up to 11 (just like our amps ).
post #23 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinedad View Post
DIN is only part of the equation. A proper forward pressure setting is extremely important.
There is a lot of truth to this. Many ski shops have seasonal employees that are not very concientious or trained well. If you add in hang overs or working in the evenings and smoking some weed it is rather scary to see teenagers with power tools going to work on a $1,000 worth of skis and bindings. The bottom line is to use a shop you trust and specify who you want working on your bindings. The best is to read the manuals and double check settings, especially the forward pressure.

I weigh 215 lbs, have skied farily hard and fast in all conditions and terrain for the last 35 years and have never had my bindings set over 10 (including 4 years pro patrolling), currently ski at 8.5-9 and almost never pre-release. Unless you are launching cliffs or putting unusual stress on your equipment it should stay on your feet without going into the teens on DIN.

Good skiers tend to get hurt when their bindings come off when they shouldn't rather than the opposite. Have a knowledgeable professional check them out and don't sweat the cost, it's minor compared to an injury.
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