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Hot Scrape Before Storage

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
I'll be putting a coat of wax on all of my skis before putting them away for the season but I was wondering about whether or not I should do a hot scrape to clean the bases before putting the storage coat on? As the family's ski tech, I'm looking at having to prep 11 pairs of skis for summer stoarage.

So my question is do you do a hot scrape before putting the storage coat of wax on your skis?
post #2 of 22
It would be better to put them away clean. It also more than doubles your wax use and workload.
post #3 of 22
Can't hurt... plus there might be differing opinions about leaving wax on the edges until next season. In more humid storing situations wax might
trap moisture that "leaks" into edge... I sometimes put Zardoz or something that displaces water. If you live in an arid area, wax on edges.
post #4 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiNut View Post
So my question is do you do a hot scrape before putting the storage coat of wax on your skis?
I don't since I have had no issues using light base cleaners.

Putting the skis and snowboards away clean and coated is worth the extra effort and will make it easier to get rolling next season. Ideally, take care of base repairs and edges now as well.

FWIW, last year I loaded up saw horses with 12 pairs, and went into production mode, cleaned, spray waxed and stored them in under an hour. They stored great and were all up and running quick and easy this past fall.
post #5 of 22
Someone told me once that you shouldn't scrape off wax when you store your skis for next season. What's the best way to prepare your skis for storage?

Tom
post #6 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Orwell View Post
Someone told me once that you shouldn't scrape off wax when you store your skis for next season. What's the best way to prepare your skis for storage?

Tom
Clean, tune, and wax as usual, but leave the wax on as a protective shield; scrape it off just before you hit the slopes next season.
post #7 of 22
Hot scraping now is a great idea. Teach junior to scrape so you don't have to do all the work. Or invite a friend over with his/her skis and do it together over a bottle of wine.
post #8 of 22
I like to use a base cleaner at the end of the season because of all the spring gunk we get bubbling up in the snow.
post #9 of 22
I hotscraped my powderboards, still hoping to get a couple more days on my others before they get the same.
post #10 of 22
What are you guys using for base cleaners? Back in the day, we used lighter fluid.
post #11 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn J View Post
What are you guys using for base cleaners? Back in the day, we used lighter fluid.
We're not as it dries the bases out. That's why we're hot scrape cleaning. I only use base cleaner on a damaged area prior to a repair & to clean scrapers etc.
post #12 of 22
Hot scrape to clean the bases (may require a couple applications if you've got heavy gunk), then hot wax and leave the protective coat on or scrape lightly so as to leave a thin protective layer.
post #13 of 22
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the advice.

I knew that the "right" thing to do was to hot scrape before putting on the storage coat, but I was hoping to avoid having to do this for 11 pairs of skis.

I broke down, bought some beer and spent the afternoon waxing, scraping and waxing the skis.

Its time to get the mountain bike out and to put the skis away until August (when the ski guides come out, ski-fever hits and I start getting the skis ready for next season)
post #14 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by spyderjon View Post
We're not as it dries the bases out. That's why we're hot scrape cleaning. I only use base cleaner on a damaged area prior to a repair & to clean scrapers etc.
Got any proof?

Quote:
There is a school of thought that base cleaners/wax removers should never be used on the ski bases and hot scraping is the only method to employ for cleaning ski and snowboard bases. The thinking is cleaners will dry out the bases and destroy the wax saturation level and optimal glide achieved through repetitive wax cycles.

There seems to be some old wives tales at work when it comes to the debate over using cleaners vs. hot scraping. From a technical standpoint sintered bases are basically inert and do not bond well with anything. The surface of the base in contact with the snow is amorphous and random in nature. Structuring the base creates lines in the base material and establishes a pattern, but the underlying material is still amorphous and random.

Wax (or base cleaner for that matter) only penetrates a very small amount into the base, about 15 microns and only where random voids exist. 15 microns is a very small measurement (1% or so of base thickness~15 to 20 microns is about 0.0006 to 0.0008 inch). How can base cleaner possibly "dry out" the base if it only penetrates 15 microns? The answer quite simply is it doesn't. Base cleaner, or at least Maplus base cleaner is basically detergent dissolved in a solvent. The solvent almost entirely evaporates and the detergent works to properly clean the base. When you take your dirty car to a car wash do you wax it first or clean it with detergent and then wax it? I've tried both and the later definitely seems to work better.

A distinction should be made between paraffin and perfluorinated waxes. A specific base cleaner called Fluorclean should be used to remove perfluorinated waxes as it is designed to remove all traces of fluorine from the base. Hot scraping at best blends new wax with a combination of old wax and contaminants in the old wax. I admit you will notice some contaminants being drawn out of the base when hot scraping if the base is dirty, but the iron is not a magnet and does not magically remove all contaminants using wax as a conduit. Residual wax left on the base after hot scraping will still have undesirable stuff in it.

Additionally, duration and type of cleaners can be employed judiciously to expedite and provide clean bases, ready for the next coat of wax. The longer a wax remover or solvent sits on the base, the more it can cut into the wax and any contaminates. Also, a more aggressive cleaner can also be used to remove the surface contaminants in little time and use of materials while eliminating the hot scraping steps and mess. Diluted (1:5) household cleaners like Simple Green can provide adequate cleaning. Biodegradable citrus based cleaners can be great options for cleaning the base and removing wax when harsher solvent based cleaners are not needed or desired. For base repairs, base cleaners are necessary, coupled with some sanding and cutting of the base material.

So, back to the original question. The best way to clean the bases is the method that is best for you, your preferences, time available, costs or beliefs: either hot scraping, base cleaner or a combination. If you are concerned about base cleaner remnants on the base, you can also hot scrape afterwards or simply wipe off with water....oh no, should it be distilled water to not leave mineral residue?
post #15 of 22
Very interesting post Terry. Thanks for sharing the info.
post #16 of 22
Alpinord, no I don't have any scientific proof only my own experience using base cleaner v hot scrape cleaning. With base cleaner (SKS ref. 1048 citrus based cleaner) the bases were definately dry & fuzzy, like after a stone grind. Even after a couple of well cured applications of cleaner I still got dirt out of the base with a hot scrape clean (using Dominator Base Renew) even though the surface of the base was clean after using the cleaner.
post #17 of 22
Maybe MythBusters can find out where the truth lies.

I haven't experienced anything that would suggest the bases were 'dried out' (though hazed) and think the phrase is inaccurate and indicates an inaccurate connotation. Certainly nothing a subsequent waxing didn't cure.....and no affect on glide, I can tell.

Having spent some time with the Maplus Product Manager, I know how absolutely anal he and their deep-pocketed research and development department is, and how extensively they research everything to the nth degree, it makes zero sense for them to recommend base cleaners as the method to prep the ski or snowboard base for their wax products if they did not believe it was for optimal performance and in their best interest.

(One cynical view is the 'hot scraping to clean' was dreamed up by a certain wax company to sell more wax.)
post #18 of 22
I know I'm just your average guy, I don't race but I average 65+ day's skiing a season. I haven't hot scraped a pair of skis since my son was racing that was at least 6 years ago. I Just keep waxing. Normally use all-temp Dominator Hyperzoom.

Have use a graphite was once or twice.

I just coated 4 pairs with yellow for the summer and will do my AC4's after skiing April 19 and 20. They'll have over 130 day's on them. I have been using a small piece of yellow wax I found floating around in my tool box on them the past few weekends. I have no idea what the yellow is but they glide great.

As last year I'll tune them and coat them with basic yellow, turn the din's down and store them base up in a dry warm place.

Please don't make rocket science out of this.

I'll try and post a photo of all the nicks, gouges, and lack of structure next week before I coat them.
post #19 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Capacity View Post
Please don't make rocket science out of this.
None of it is, it's religion. From a previous Cleaning Bases thread:

Quote:
If you believe, then:

If you believe:
( any or all of the following, then HOT SCRAPE TO CLEAN your ski or snowboard bases)
-in all trades, including ski & board technicians & DIYers, tradition, common practice, experience, age, mixed with a little superstition, and considering new alternatives backed with scientific and perceived research, and randomly and subjectively believing and understanding certain selective facts and myths, is the only way to do things.
-washing your car makes it run better.
-when heated, dirt and contaminants know that they should and will leave the wax versus mix with the remainder.
-always putting your right (or left) boot on first makes you ski or board better.
-that ski bases are porous and absorb wax and cleaners.
-softer waxes bonding to bases with other softer waxes and contaminants with harder waxes above is the most durable than the reverse.
-the 1%/15 microns or so thickness of an inert sintered base covered by a cleaner that evaporates WILL dry out the other 99%.
-that if a pitcher steps on the base line between the mound and dugout, he'll pitch poorly. It's a fact!
-hot scraping is another way to get connected with your boards and is enjoyable. It's a form of seasoning or aging.
-if you have nothing better to do and like making messes.
-wish to spend less on cleaning supplies, by spending much more on waxing supplies.

(-Next time you wash your car, don't. Just wax it and see how clean it gets.
-Next time you wash your face, don't. Just apply lotion and see how it feels.)

If you believe:
( any or all of the following, then USE BASE CLEANER TO CLEAN your ski or snowboard bases)
-in all trades, including ski & board technicians & DIYers, tradition, common practice, experience, age, mixed with a little superstition, and considering new alternatives backed with scientific and perceived research, and randomly and subjectively believing and understanding certain selective facts and myths, is the only way to do things.
-washing your car makes it look better and protects the finish better.
-when heated, dirt and contaminants are also likely to mix with the wax remaining on the base and the base itself.
-always putting your right (or left) boot on first only makes you THINK you ski or board better.
-removing all foreign matter from the base with a detergent will provide a better bond between the wax and base material.
-harder wax bonding to bases with softer above is more durable than the reverse.
-the 1%/15 microns or so thickness of an inert sintered base covered by a cleaner that evaporates WILL NOT dry out the other 99%. (Flouros are another issue.)
-that if a pitcher steps on the base line between the mound and dugout, he'll pitch poorly. It's a fact!
-hot scraping after using a base cleaner is an optional additional step.
-if you are short on time or do not wish to spend the additional time or want more mess, and want to assure clean bases before waxing.
-wish to spend less on wax and cleaning supplies.

If you believe:
(any or all of the above, then USE BASE CLEANER TO CLEAN and/or HOT SCRAPE TO CLEAN your ski or snowboard bases). Whatever trips your trigger, we have the right stuff.

Disclaimer: For every 5 tuners, you'll get 6 opinions. All 8 of them are wrong.....or right.....or partially right.....or partially wrong, depending on your perspective.
post #20 of 22
I know what seems to work for me.
post #21 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Capacity View Post
I know what seems to work for me.
And that is what everyone needs to find over time.

AS stated previously:

Quote:
FWIW, last year I loaded up saw horses with 12 pairs, and went into production mode, cleaned, spray waxed and stored them in under an hour. They stored great and were all up and running quick and easy this past fall.
post #22 of 22
Thanks Terry, I hope people can learn what works and how easy it is to have well tuned skis.
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