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Bump discussion thread - Page 2

post #31 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars View Post
Let's address my first question,

Are today's big sidecut carving skis as good in bumps as yesterday's straight, narrow waisted long skis(190's)?

I say no. And they could actually be keeping you from being successful in your search for mogul prowress. Yesterday's skis required you to pressure your shins into the fronts of your boots to pressure your ski tips to decamber the ski actually making it arc a turn. Mogul skiing requires you to continuely pressure your tips down into the next bump and extend your legs as you pass over the bump. A natural tendency since you already are pressuring your tips. Of course, your feet were closer and your hands always in front for quick wrist flicks. Today's sidecut carving machines require you to have a wider stance and get different movements to get your skis on edge to turn(carve) with much different if at all pole use. For the average good skier who does well on groomers, has problems in moguls partly because they never skied moguls pre sidecut/carver skis.

Any backing to the bolded bit above? Seems like a gross generalisation.

I ski bumps just as well on "new skis" as I did on straight skis....better actually. Carivng skis were designed to help people carve GS size turns on groomed....bumps typically require a turning radius much less then that...hence old school steering skills are required....good fore/aft balance is required...solid pressure control is required....just like it always was....the issue today is a skier can now do things that were once hard, pretty easily...like leave pencil lines in the snow....thus they think they are now "good"...but as soon as they leave the groomed they fall apart...why? their "technique" is sorrowly lacking...it would have lacked before too...they just might not have known it.

New skis have really only blurred the line of what is good and what isnt good skiing for the general public....

This of course is a double edged sword. I truly believe shaped skis have made skiing easier...this is a good thing, as more people want to do it...but they also pushed the envelope of what is possible...hence the bar just go raised a whole bunch in the last decade....most people just haven't releasied it yet.
post #32 of 41
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post
Any backing to the bolded bit above? Seems like a gross generalisation.

I ski bumps just as well on "new skis" as I did on straight skis....better actually. Carivng skis were designed to help people carve GS size turns on groomed....bumps typically require a turning radius much less then that...hence old school steering skills are required....good fore/aft balance is required...solid pressure control is required....just like it always was....the issue today is a skier can now do things that were once hard, pretty easily...like leave pencil lines in the snow....thus they think they are now "good"...but as soon as they leave the groomed they fall apart...why? their "technique" is sorrowly lacking...it would have lacked before too...they just might not have known it.

New skis have really only blurred the line of what is good and what isnt good skiing for the general public....

This of course is a double edged sword. I truly believe shaped skis have made skiing easier...this is a good thing, as more people want to do it...but they also pushed the envelope of what is possible...hence the bar just go raised a whole bunch in the last decade....most people just haven't releasied it yet.
No backing other than personal experience. Theory really. I don't think I ski moguls much different than I did years ago. Even though I'm not skiing them on big sidecut skis today. Today i am using a wider waisted ski but basically the same sidecut as those I skied years ago. They're not as quick side to side but I'm not as quick either. I said this before, a good mogul skier will look good on just about anything he skis on.

getting back to you. You said you ski better with today's skis than before. Is it because your mogul technique has gotten better because of today's skis?

Here's a question for you. If today's big sidecut skis have made skiing moguls better, why then don't the olympic and WC skiers and pro's use them instead of the 60 something waisted skis they use?
post #33 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars View Post
No backing other than personal experience. Theory really. I don't think I ski moguls much different than I did years ago. Even though I'm not skiing them on big sidecut skis today. Today i am using a wider waisted ski but basically the same sidecut as those I skied years ago. They're not as quick side to side but I'm not as quick either. I said this before, a good mogul skier will look good on just about anything he skis on.

getting back to you. You said you ski better with today's skis than before. Is it because your mogul technique has gotten better because of today's skis? ?
Bit of both. I have definatley improved my skiing ability...no doubt. But I think the skis play a role too. I definatley carve in the bumps, and I think the carving skis aid in that. Plus, todays skis are much shorter...my slalom skis used to be 205cm....now my "all mountain" skis are 175-180cm. I think that helps alot in the bumps.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars View Post
Here's a question for you. If today's big sidecut skis have made skiing moguls better, why then don't the olympic and WC skiers and pro's use them instead of the 60 something waisted skis they use?
I agree with what you wrote.....not sure where you got that "big sidecut skis" make moguls better....I certainly have not alluded to that...or at least I havent meant to. I too use 60 somthing waisted skis....

They do that, and I...because they are quick edge to edge, and provide more solid edging ability...a good thing in icy bumps used on the WC. I dont think big side cut skis ie: turning radius <14m are for experts...too unstable at real speed on anything other then perfect groomers.

Big fat skis on the other hand tend to do ok in bumps becuase they are very very stable. This is a great thing in the bumps. I have seen lots of guys..usually young teenager types...who cant ski...press the knees together, drop the hips way back and down...and point em in the bumps....they do surprisingly well, provided the run is not too long, or they need to avoid trees or people...
post #34 of 41
I think for most, the shorter slightly wider skis are better in the bumps.
too much shape, not good, too stiff, not good, but shorter wider and with a little shape, good.
in the "old days" we skied them on stiff GS and slalom skis, which weren't mogul skis. not too playful.
mogul skiers ski short soft straighter skis today, and they work well, much better then the old gs or sl skis, or the newer skis if you have good skills for for the sideslip, edgeset turn that they use. the narrower skis are also quicker edge to edge, for their quick footed direction changes, but most of us also benefit from a little more width. in a slip, your outside edge is less likely to catch then on a narrower ski, so people slip more securely. that increases confidence in the drift, which is often lacking in people learning to ski bumps.
I think most people are skiing too stiff at ski, often too long and too narrow... soft moderate shaped midfats are great fun, a little slower edge to edge, but forgiving while being pretty accurate.

also,
i appreciate the wc mougle style. I watch the squaw team, which i think is still top shelf. for me and many, the required impacts (even taken w/ the knees, not back) are less then ideal, though.

cheers,
holiday
post #35 of 41
seems we were thinking some of the same thoughts at the same time, ey, skidude.
post #36 of 41
I had this thread closed...lets keep the actual mogul conversation to the thread where everything has been moved to.
post #37 of 41
I actually think you, me and Lars are all "more or less" on the same page here....
post #38 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post
I actually think you, me and Lars are all "more or less" on the same page here....
I agree, we just need to move the conversation to the other thread .
post #39 of 41
Thread Starter 
Good posts guys.

That said, I can't ski moguls all day anymore. So, I ski a nice forgiving midfat with a 21m sidecut that gives me the best of both worlds. Good float in whatever powder we get, pretty stable at speed on hardpack and of course, quick in moguls. 176 length

I stay off sidecuts that deliver turn radius' of 16 or 17 cause most days I don't want to work that hard. But, also cause I just don't like them in moguls and moguls are a big part of my ski day no matter where I am.
post #40 of 41
Thread Starter 
How many threads we got here?
post #41 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars View Post
How many threads we got here?
ALL further mogul discussion will take place HERE.
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