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Help me with my technique

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
I got back into skiing this year after several years of not skiing much. I use to ski 210 straights and could ski for days. Now I'm skiing a 164 Fury, I do real well the first half of the day then my thighs start to burn and go to jello. I'm skiing with guys that are just as out of shape as I am but they just get faster and faster through out the day. I think there is something in my stance that is causing me to work harder than I really need to. We're skiing mostly blues/black and just cruising and carving down the hill. Any tips out there on how my stance should be to get the most efficiency out my skis?
post #2 of 17
Not enough information. Where you ski, have you taken lessons, age and weight and all of those things.

Lessons and proper foot beds will probably come into play here. Once you are nicely balanced over the proper skis for the terrain/area you are in and you have adjusted to the new technique from the ol' 210's ...

Paint us a better picture of yourself. How many times do you get out?
post #3 of 17
If your thighs are burning, you're bending your outside knee more than necessary.
post #4 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneale Brownson View Post
If your thighs are burning, you're bending your outside knee more than necessary.
Bending your outside knee in and of itself will not cause burning thighs. What causes burning thighs is hips behind feet. I can bend my outside leg all day long if my hips are where they are supposed to be.

But, really there is not enough info to diagnose the problem really clearly. Although my educated guess is: back seat skiing! This puts undue stress on your quads. If you are stacked properly, you use your hamstrings when carving not your quads. I can ski groomers (and realtively steep groomers at that) all day long at mach speed and my quads don't ever get tired.
post #5 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by bndfishing View Post
I got back into skiing this year after several years of not skiing much. I use to ski 210 straights and could ski for days. Now I'm skiing a 164 Fury, I do real well the first half of the day then my thighs start to burn and go to jello. I'm skiing with guys that are just as out of shape as I am but they just get faster and faster through out the day. I think there is something in my stance that is causing me to work harder than I really need to. We're skiing mostly blues/black and just cruising and carving down the hill. Any tips out there on how my stance should be to get the most efficiency out my skis?
Ski more upright......less bend and pushing is easier.
Hamstrings/glutes don't really engage until a pretty deep squat.
Just ask any football player.
post #6 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooberhead View Post
Ski more upright......less bend and pushing is easier.
Hamstrings/glutes don't really engage until a pretty deep squat.
Just ask any football player.

In order to stay upright over your skis as you descend down a slope you must have a forward (hips forward of feet) stance in order stay centered over your skis. Your hamstrings are what balances you in a forward position. You needn't be doing a squat. completly differnt set of circumstance. Football players don't play on a slippery SLOPE!!!! They play on a flat surface with all kinds of traction. Their inclination both horizontally or vertically is minimal when compared to skiers'.

If you do not move forward and stay static (in the same position as on a flat) you will be in the backseat and put huge strain on your quads as you try to fight your way down the hill.

A more upright stance will most likely put this person even farther back. His boots probably have inappropriate forward lean and possibly ramp angle in combination with his binding ramp for his physiology. This must be addressed first with a knowledgeable bootfitter before changing anything he is doing techniqueswise. It may be that nothing he does at this point can overcome an inaapropriate boot/binding/ski interface.

I have said many times you want your skis chasing your body down the hill not your body trying to catch your skis!
post #7 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by bndfishing View Post
I got back into skiing this year after several years of not skiing much. I use to ski 210 straights and could ski for days. Now I'm skiing a 164 Fury
I suggest you try a longer XWing Fury, and make some longer turns. If your cranking out tiny turns at high speed all day long, it's no wonder that your getting tired.
post #8 of 17
Thread Starter 
Thanks guys so far there is some real good info here.

age 34
5' 10
190lbs
Ski the NW resorts from Whistler to Mt. Hood
Just got custom Strolz boots with foot beds (has made a big difference)
164 Solomon Fury skis (love them)
started skiing at 4 mom was an instructor last lesson was 26 years ago. Haven't skied much in the last 13 years but got back into it this year and skied 14 days.

Getting used to shape skis has been a real lesson. I have found myself too far back on the tails and feeling the tail turning out. I've been trying to shift forward to center or a little more. From what I been reading it seems like I need to stand up a bit straighter and work on centering my stance. I had my binding mounted a little forward of center about 3/4") to help me with my tail turning issue so maybe it's time to center the bindings.
post #9 of 17
The binding forward might be a good thing. Don't move it until you get your feet behind your hips...at least that's what it'll feel like when you're properly centered.

As you end one turn and begin the next, pull both feet back so they're out of your vision in your goggles. Your weight should be on the balls of your feet now.

Through the turn, continuously pull the inside foot back. The farthest forward you feet should ever get is where your weight is on the arch of your foot, never the heels. Tip lead is not a virtue. It is just an indicator of the inside leg bent to get clearance for edge/leg angles. Pull that inside foot back and try to keep your toes even at the same time you're lightening that inside foot. (And push the inside hip forward from the beginning to the end of the turn for counter.)

"I have said many times you want your skis chasing your body down the hill not your body trying to catch your skis!"
Great description. One ski coach and writer has written that the two halves of the ski have different purposes. The front half of the ski turns us or slows us when you put your weight there (plus the other movements we make). The back half of the ski has the job of taking us for a ride, fast & straight, when we put our weight there.
post #10 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
Bending your outside knee in and of itself will not cause burning thighs. What causes burning thighs is hips behind feet. I can bend my outside leg all day long if my hips are where they are supposed to be.

But, really there is not enough info to diagnose the problem really clearly. Although my educated guess is: back seat skiing! This puts undue stress on your quads. If you are stacked properly, you use your hamstrings when carving not your quads. I can ski groomers (and realtively steep groomers at that) all day long at mach speed and my quads don't ever get tired.
Bingo. I'll put it right out there - burning thighs spells back seat skiing.
post #11 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry_Morgan View Post
Bingo. I'll put it right out there - burning thighs spells back seat skiing.
post #12 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by bndfishing View Post
Thanks guys so far there is some real good info here.

age 34
5' 10
190lbs
Ski the NW resorts from Whistler to Mt. Hood
Just got custom Strolz boots with foot beds (has made a big difference)
164 Solomon Fury skis (love them)
started skiing at 4 mom was an instructor last lesson was 26 years ago. Haven't skied much in the last 13 years but got back into it this year and skied 14 days.

Getting used to shape skis has been a real lesson. I have found myself too far back on the tails and feeling the tail turning out. I've been trying to shift forward to center or a little more. From what I been reading it seems like I need to stand up a bit straighter and work on centering my stance. I had my binding mounted a little forward of center about 3/4") to help me with my tail turning issue so maybe it's time to center the bindings.
I have found moving my bindings forward to exacerbate back seat skiing not help it! At least for me, it seems to do just the opposite of what I expect. But i am a fairly forward skier.

More tail to deal with is usually not a good thing for most aspiring skiers.

I have many Atomic skis so I have easily been able to experiment with binding position.

My Stockli Laser WC Sl is the most forward mounted ski i have found and it turns out to be my least favorite ski I own. A freind of mine tried them and loved them but he has a very narrow upright rear bias stance and usues little or no inclination. (he is an amazingly good no excellent skier considering his stance. Although I think he would be toast in a race course)

I also moved my bindings to the forward position on my 162 B5 metron. I took one run on them like that and put them away (this was very early in the season) and did not ski on them again until a couple of days ago with the bindings moved back to the central position. Much better!!!!!
post #13 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
I have found moving my bindings forward to exacerbate back seat skiing not help it! At least for me, it seems to do just the opposite of what I expect. But i am a fairly forward skier.

My Stockli Laser WC Sl is the most forward mounted ski i have found and it turns out to be my least favorite ski I own.
I have had good luck moving the binding back 1cm on my SLs to facillitate getting forward. Read about it on Warner Nickerson's blog. Very effective remedy for this issue. Tail seems to hold much longer before the dreaded washout as well.

http://www.warnernickerson.com/news/...ws_archive.php - quote:

This is a week long slalom elements camp. And after 6 weeks off snow my slalom is right where it left off and I think I’m already making steps in my skiing. I’ve been playing with my mounting points on my skis (basically I’m moving my bindings a cm back on my skis to find a better balance point), which is making it easier to get over my skis and stay more balanced making more proficient slalom turns. A shout out is deserved to Jimmy Cochran who gave me the idea after watching me struggle getting over my skis on the second day.


- Fossil
post #14 of 17
FWIW, I agree with Atomicman, burning thighs are a sure sign of the muscles holding the body erect rather than the skeleton. The OP also has it nailed as a stance problem, i.e., the body is not stacked skeletally. It could be that moving the bindings forward would have a positive effect, but only trial and error would affirm that.
post #15 of 17
bndfiching,

Atomicman and nolo are correct in my opinion. Knee bend without ankle flex causes the hip to fall behind the middle of the foot. It is also the nature of shaped skis to move forward instead to skidding sideways like the old streight skis. The result is the skis are moving forward out from under the skier. To keep up with them, more ankle flex is needed (contact between the shin and boot tongue), and you must also move forward with the skis. This will allow you to have a centered stance, more stacked skellitly, and a lot less quad burn.

RW
post #16 of 17
Longer skis might be the simple fix. I have some 165 Sl skis I like to fool around with but they are EXHAUSTING and the big shovesl wander a bit at hight speed. You cannot lose concentration for one second as you turn turn turn turn.

All in, my GS skis (175s - still short) are more relaxed edge to edge. Less turning, more tipping. My all time fav cruisers were some 180cm Volant Supercarve legends. THOSE were fun groomers but HEAVY.

Finally, father time gets us all. If you were on 210s- you aint 20. A little neoprene on the back and knees will give you more snap for those pm runs.
post #17 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer256 View Post
Finally, father time gets us all. If you were on 210s- you aint 20. A little neoprene on the back and knees will give you more snap for those pm runs.
Boy ain't that the truth

Thanks for all the help
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