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Legend 8000 sidewall cutting and structure

post #1 of 5
Thread Starter 
I should have just skied on them!! I tend to be a perfectionist (some call it anal) and like to get everything set well.

First of all, FYI, when I went to buy some of my tuning tools, the shop guy checked my new Legend 8000 skis and said that the factory base angle appears to be between 0.5 and 1.0 degrees and the side angle 1.0 degrees. He did it roughly so I though that it is probably 1 and 2 as mentioned elsewhere. I asked what would be a good general sidewall cutting tool for occasional use and he recommended the Swix (TA101) sidewall cutter. It has a round carbide tip. He had many more expensive ones, but thought that for personal use this would be fine.

I called the Dynastar rep/distributor in Park City and spoke with the tech there. With no prompting from me at all, he said that the factory base is 0.5 to 1.0 degrees and the factory side angle is 1.0 degrees; which confirmed the shop guy's measurments. He recommended to set the base to 1.0 and side 2.0.

I came home this evening and proceeded to try to use the Swix sidewall cutter to backfile the sidewall cutting. THIS IS NOT A CASUAL AND EASY PROCEDURE! Part of the problem is that the tips and tails appear to have much less of a vertical sidewall than the middle part. In addition, the middle part of the ski appears to have an extra layer. In the middle part of the ski, there is the silver ski edge followed by a blackish grayish layer with a layer on top that is similar to the vertical sidewall and cover on the ski. There does not appear to be a silver "second edge". As the tips and tails are approached, the vertical sidewall material quickly tapers to nothing and all that remains is the silver metal edge, grayish-black thin layer, and the topsheet. This really complicates removing the sidewall material consistently.

There is a very thin lip of the cover/vertical sidewall material above the greyish black material. I was able to remove most of this with the sidewall cutter near the middle, but I could not consistently remove or taper the greyish black material. It almost sounds like metal (glass?) as it is being cut. (Should this be removed too?) The round bit tool is really hard to get close to the silver metal edge. Maybe I am trying to get too much of it. But if I don't get more of that small lip of greyish-black and plastic sidewall material off, I will probably get it in the file/diamond stone when I am setting the side edge to 2 degrees . Am I supposed to get it even closer to the metal silver edge?

For the middle part of the ski, what I have tried to do is get fairly close to the greyish black edge above the metal edge with the round bit of the sidewall cutter, smoothed it out with some drywall screen, and finished it off with some superfine sanding cloth used for wood. But I can't get it any closer easily and I know I will be cutting into that greyish black layer with my file when I try to set the edge to 2 deg. Is this what I should expect?

Do I just have the wrong cutter for such a "combination" sidewall ski"?

OTOH, the tips and tails are a completely different story. I really don't know what I can remove from there since the topsheet seems to blend completely into the greyish black layer and metal edge.

Any suggestions? Should I just go ahead and set the 2 deg edge and deal with the dirty file and diamond stones? Are all skis this 'strange' or is it just me?

Do I need to return the sidewall cutter with the round bit?

post #2 of 5
You are making my little brain hurt BigNick You are sweating the small stuff and over thinking everything....and you should have just skied them. I'd definitely leave the base bevel alone for now.........and why not ski them with the side bevel as they are?

A few quotes came to mind:

1) "If it ain't broke, don't fix it. "
2) "We ain't building no stinkin' pie-anos here!"
3) "Relax, have fun, pay attention & let it ride a little."

The short answer is you can always just freehand the areas you are having trouble with and move on like at the end of the SVST SideWall Planing video clip:

FTR, your tool:

is manufactured by SkiMan as an 'economy' version of the SkiMan ErgoRazor:

As an owner of the 8000's, over the last year I think I've back filed the sidewalls twice simply using a multi-angle tool, panzer or strawberry file, coarse file and a little sanding and 5 to 10 minutes. The intent being:

post #3 of 5
I'll be honest -- with the mixed bag of ski construction nowadays, including various ways they taper off the sidewall from center to tip/tail, I feel most comfortable using a panzar file in an edge guide. I run it lightly until it's riding on the metal edge, and then switch to a bastard file, then finally to my stones. The sidewall cutting tools can be a hassle to use and can get you into trouble. In fact, your post is a great example of the kinds of worries I envisioned using a sidewall cutter on some of my newer skis!
post #4 of 5
What year is your 8K? I also skived the sidewall on mine (06/07 with the loudish graphics). But, I didn't do it until my edges started to dull.

I also ran into some of the things you mentioned, but only at the tip and tail, and the top sheet giving a peeling back effect. I think the gray metal-like stuff you were hitting is just fiber glass. Since that was only at the two ends of the skis, I just left them alone as they are meant to be all mountain skis anyway. The "peeling back" of the top sheet really wasn't delamination I don't think. I think that is only the gummy texture of the coating resisting to rip when you skive. Running a file at an angle over it should shred that pretty cleanly.

Good luck.
post #5 of 5
I have found that for most skis I have cut back, a large panzer file works as well or better than the "skiver" tools. It may not do as asthetically pleasing a job, but I don't care about how the tops look - I ski the bottoms (well - most of the time!).

1. Clamp ski in vise so that one edge is facing you.
2. Use large panzer file (hand held) at an angle greater than the side edge angles (so that the file is not working the edge itself).
3. Take what you need off the top edge to enable unencumbered access to the correct regular file and/or stone edge angles as used in your guide.
4. Use progressively smaller bastard files to smooth the upper edge if you feel the need to make it prettier.
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