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New lange plug

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
Hi,

I am interested in a comparison between the Atomic RT Ti and the 2009 Lange plug. I have read the only thread about the new Langes on this forum and i must say that the boot looks promising. I do not like the current Lange WC 150 because it does not fit my foot well. One of the biggest problems with the current last is the instep height. It is too high for my low instep. The Atomic RT Ti has a low instep which would be great for me.
These are my questions:

How does the new Lange WC compare to the Atomic RT Ti in instep height and heel width? From what i have read the Lange is lower over the instep, but how close is it to the Atomic? I haven't seen a race boot with a lower instep than the Atomic, except the Tecnica XT17. The Dobie/Race R are not even close. They are very close to the Lange and that is a shame because most of the race/semi-race boots we can find today have an instep height that is above average. IMO.


How does the new Lange compare to the Atomic RT Ti in ramp angle and forward lean?

Thank you very much.
Race
post #2 of 21


Here's the Lange RL11 on left and the NEW RL12 (97mm) on the right. Note instep height difference (disregard the time stamp)



RL11 on left, RL12 (97mm) on right. Note toe box height difference (disregard the time stamp)



Lange RL12 (97mm)on left, RL11 on right. Note slight height difference and heel/achilles contour.



Lange RL12 (97mm) on left, RL11 on right. Note difference between shin contour (much more upright on RL12)

As far as ramp angles, I'll get back to you soon. I measured them @ the show and I have to check my notes.
post #3 of 21
by all acount the new RL12 is a much better shape then the RL11 however the racers are all using the 2006 as the RL12 in the 160 is a 92mm fit and the guys over here in europe are all finding it just too narrow without major amounts of work... i thin the 97 mm as opposed to the 98mm is a much better shape and fit...as for the 92mm time will tell, unlike the new atomic STI [92mm ] the lange looks to have a full thickness shell
post #4 of 21
The zeppa ramp is 3.5* on the Lange RL12.
Zeppa ramp is 3.5* on Atomic's CS series.
post #5 of 21
Thread Starter 
Thanks a lot for your replies (and pics), guys. I expected the instep height of the new plug to be lower but i still can't say how it would compare to an Atomic RT Ti. It appears to be a medium instep so it would be higher than the Atomic. That is only a speculation, though.

How does the new plug compare to the old one in forward lean? I looked at the lower of the boots and it seems that the lower of the new boot is a little more upright than the current model.

I saw that the new plug has very thin plastic in the toe box. Did you notice that? That is not so good for someone who needs to make the toe box longer. It does have thick plastic for someone who needs more room over the toes, though...
post #6 of 21
If you need to get more toe room, grind the heel. There is plenty of material to grind. (moves the liner back)
post #7 of 21
Thread Starter 
CEM,
How does the new RT STI compare to the current TI? Other than the narrower forefoot, are there other differences in fit? What about the forward lean?
I saw a few pics of the new boot and read the description from a japanese website (with babelfish ) and it seems that there are some differences, other than the forefoot width. The translation was not precise,though. It seems that the lower shell is cut higher above the ankles and in the back than the current boot, giving the new plug more power.
post #8 of 21
from what i know of it that description sounds about right, i was talking to the head of the race department of Atomic 2 weeks back in Austria and it was him who told me of the new thin wall on the shell, the UK guys were unaware, the idea is that the boot is easier to stretch accurately and they could keep the boot external narrower to prevent boot out in slalom, the TI as is still remains so no need to panic there.... TBH i ma not totally convinced with the need for these 92mm shells...someone obviously thinks differently and they know more than me...as for putting them on the open market, unless your foot is like a pencil you will need to be very good friends with your bootfitter and hope he has a good flexi grinder and lots of patience
post #9 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantman View Post
The zeppa ramp is 3.5* on the Lange RL12.
Zeppa ramp is 3.5* on Atomic's CS series.
I forgot to ask, what size were the RL 12 and CS boots you measured?
post #10 of 21
Atomic CS series - 26/26.5 304 mm
Lange RL 12 - 26/26.5 ???mm
post #11 of 21
308mm
post #12 of 21
Thread Starter 
Thank you.

Two more things. Do you know if the BSL is unchanged with the RL12 and the consumer plug? Is US7 a 300 mm and US6 a 292 mm, just like the current plug and semi-plug?

How does the new plug and semi-plug compare to the current plug and consumer plug in ramp angle and forward lean? I suspect that the new boots have less ramp and lean. In that case, is there a big difference between the boots?
post #13 of 21
The boot sole lengths that I saw this past season on the Rossi/Lange RL12's were in mondopoint not US sizing. 23=274mm, 24=284mm, 25=293mm, 26=303mm, and 27=313mm.

I have a pre-series Pro Comp 130, which is the 97mm 130 flex model in a 26 and 27, and the sole lengths are 303mm and 313mm. This means that so far, the pre-series 92mm race model, has the same sole lengths as the first pre-series 97mm consumer boots. I would imagine these are good numbers for the future.

The pre-series has about the same ramp angle, with slightly less forward lean from the shell. The on snow feel is that of a more relaxed upright stance.

There is no comparing the RL11 to the RL12. If you love and have loved Lange for your entire life, stay with the RL11 (Still available from both Lange and Rossi in a variety of flexes) If you like the geometry of the Nordica Doberman, or the Atomic Race Tec boots, this new Lange RL12 or consumer version is for you.

FYI - Some of the top level athletes that were skiing on Lange or Rossi this seson switched to the new RL12 and some stuck with the RL11. There were even a few that used both boots for different events. (Speed vs. techical) For WC athletes it comes down to skiing style, time testing in glide and turns, and personal preference.

jim
post #14 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by starthaus View Post
FYI - Some of the top level athletes that were skiing on Lange or Rossi this seson switched to the new RL12 and some stuck with the RL11. There were even a few that used both boots for different events. (Speed vs. techical) For WC athletes it comes down to skiing style, time testing in glide and turns, and personal preference.

jim
+1

I think the RL11 has much better snow feel and allows a more progressive roll onto the edge. The RL12 is much more aggressive at the top of the arc (just look at the more positive lower 'cuff' angle in the head-on views above). I don't think it's any coincidence that a lot of WC athletes stayed with the RL11 for speed events.

Matt
post #15 of 21
Thread Starter 
Thank you. That is great info!

I will try on the new boots. They should be closer to my needs than the current models. One thing i do not like about the current boots is that they are quite high over the instep. I prefer a boot like the Race Tech or XT in that respect. I hope that the new boots will be lower over the instep. The pics show that they are lower but you never know until you try them on. Regarding the geometry, i think that the similar or slightly flatter ramp and reduced FL will be better for me. I tried on the current plug and semi-plug and i felt that they had too much forward lean. It was better with the rear/lateral spoiler removed. They could have used less ramp too.

I found a Rossi product spec sheet for 2009 and yes, the new boot will have some positive lower shell cant and the cuffs will be pushed out more than the current models. The canting range will be good (5 degrees).
post #16 of 21
Thread Starter 
Guys, could you please tell me what the ramp angle is on the 25 Atomic RT (294 mm BSL) and Lange RL12 (293 mm BSL)? That is the correct size for both boots. If you don't have the numbers please give me the toe and heel height of the bootboards and their length (for 25) and i will calculate it myself.

Again, thank you for your help.
post #17 of 21
Lange 3.0 Degrees 23mm H/12.5mm T
Atomic 5.0 Degrees 29mm H/11mm T

Just because I am a curious kind of guy... ramp angle is completely negotiable on any boot, why stress about where a bootboard is out of the box? If you do not like the ramp angle, you can adapt it.

FYI- you can spend a lot of time trying to spec out a boot geometrically and still be surprised by the way that it feels and skis. There are intrinsic aspects of any race boot that will not become apparent from the outside looking in.

PS: I have a pair of the 25 Lange RL12 available for sale if you are interested PM me.
post #18 of 21
Quote:
ramp angle is completely negotiable on any boot, why stress about where a bootboard is out of the box? If you do not like the ramp angle, you can adapt it.
very valid and often forgotten point , with removal or addition of material a good fitter can create pretty much whatever angle you require [within reason]
post #19 of 21
Thread Starter 

ramp angle numbers

I am interested in the stock boot board angle because dropping the heel means that i will have more room over the instep and i don't want that because i have a low instep. That is why i am looking for a boot board angle which is closest to my needs out of the box. I usually play with the binding ramp before working on the boot ramp. If shimming the binding toe for zero ramp is not enough, the boot board will be lowered.

Starthaus, could you please give me the numbers for the boot board length of the 25 RL12 and Atomic RT? With all due respect, if my calculations are correct, the RL 12 has a boot board length of 200.7 mm and the RT is 206.4 mm. IMO those numbers are usually not found in a 25. The length should be somewhere around 240-260 mm (give or take a few mm's). IMO 200 mm is the length for a smaller size.
I also noticed that the RL12 has a heel height of 23 mm. That is the lowest stock heel i have seen. Most heels are somewhere around 30 mm. If that is correct, the boot should have a low ramp, especially in the bigger sizes.

I hope you can clarify the situation.

Thank you for you help!
post #20 of 21
lange=241mm
atomic=249mm

jim
post #21 of 21
Thread Starter 
Thank you Jim. That is what i needed to know.
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