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Repairing a liner

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 
The material in the back of my Surefoot liners has packed out to the point where I feel as if my achilles tendon and the back of my heel are resting up against the bare shell.
I took them back to Surefoot, and they offered to move the buckles so that I could make the shell tighter, but refused to acknowledge that anything had changed in the liner (just like the Monty Python routine with the dead parrot).

I want to insert some soft material in back of my foot to provide the cushioning I used to get from the liners. Anyone have any suggestions?
I have some ideas of my own but want to hear what others suggest.
post #2 of 16
My favorite material for padding is nylon 1 neoprene. It adheres well to all liner material. It is available in 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8mm thickness. It has memory and will not pack out. It is firm enough to fill, and soft enough to pad and protect. You can also stretch it around curves.

You may also need to have some shell grinding done to accommodate your heel bone and achilles, when you add padding.

jim
post #3 of 16
The liner stitching can be opened at the sole after peeling the waterproofing layer from it. A layer can be inserted and contoured to your specific physiology. The liner can be re-stitched and glued as per original manufacturer specs. I think that the shell may also have to be ground to accommodate your issue (distribute pressure differently).
post #4 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantman View Post
The liner stitching can be opened at the sole after peeling the waterproofing layer from it. A layer can be inserted and contoured to your specific physiology. The liner can be re-stitched and glued as per original manufacturer specs. I think that the shell may also have to be ground to accommodate your issue (distribute pressure differently).
I think the cost of having all that work done might come close the the price of a new liner from a company like Intuition.

I bought an 'air pillo' insole at CVS, cut a big piece off and taped it to the back of my foot, then put on my sock. It was pretty good.
Now I'm thinking of something like neoprene to just stick in the liner, perhaps with a bit of tape.
Thanks for the info.
post #5 of 16
Quote:
I bought an 'air pillo' insole at CVS, cut a big piece off and taped it to the back of my foot, then put on my sock. It was pretty good.
Now I'm thinking of something like neoprene to just stick in the liner, perhaps with a bit of tape.
Necessity is the mother of invention... Good Luck!
post #6 of 16
Thread Starter 
Thank you. I'm going to experiment with the soft foam stuff and see how thick the layer needs to be; then when I'm sure of that I'll get Neoprene in that thickness.
I'll ski, and if not satisfied I'll stop and add or remove a layer, until I get it right.
In the meantime I'm going back to Surefoot again to see if they'll stand behind their product and replace the liner. I'm not optimistic about that.
post #7 of 16
They do offer a guarantee, however foam liners break down just like stock liners, and nothing lasts forever.

How old are the boots and how many skiing days do you have on them?

jim
post #8 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by starthaus View Post
They do offer a guarantee, however foam liners break down just like stock liners, and nothing lasts forever.

How old are the boots and how many skiing days do you have on them?

jim
The Surefoot liners collapsed after 25 half-days of skiing.
I've skied 5 days since then, stuffing napkins, molefoam, gauze bandages, paper towels, 'air pillo' insole material, etc into the space behind my foot. Going again tomorrow with a bag full of soft stuff to pack in there. Still experimenting.

I never ski more than 4 hours because of leg problems (damaged meniscus, torn gastrocnemus, etc).

The price of the liners was $584 (including tax).
post #9 of 16
I think most fitters would agree that 25 half days is a little short for complete breakdown of a well made custom foam liner. Sounds to me like you have a strong case for a replacement or a free fix based on surefoots guarantee. Good luck with the process.

jim
post #10 of 16
You may have had an area around the heel contour that received very open cells of polyurethane and/or the gas wasn't expelled correctly. Possible foaming procedure issue. Did they "foam" the liners with the toes elevated?
Did they have problems getting a clear flow of foam? Did the foam exit out of all four tubes @ the boot toe?
post #11 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantman View Post
You may have had an area around the heel contour that received very open cells of polyurethane and/or the gas wasn't expelled correctly. Possible foaming procedure issue. Did they "foam" the liners with the toes elevated?
Did they have problems getting a clear flow of foam? Did the foam exit out of all four tubes @ the boot toe?
If I remember correctly, there wasn't any exit tube for the foam at the boot toe. The foam was injected into the fabric liner with the foot in the liner in the boot.
At one point some kind of leak happened on the cuff, and some of the chemicals leaked out and dried on the outside of the liner. The guy making the liner acted as if it was ok and wiped it off; but perhaps some vital material was lost.
post #12 of 16
25 days from a foam liner, that is way too little you should be getting 150 + out of a well injected foam liner....
straight from the surefoot website......

“Surefoot wants to provide you, our valued customers, with the best fitting, best performing ski boots possible. If for any reason or at any time you are dissatisfied with the fit of your Surefoot custom ski boots, please return them to a Surefoot location where we will repair or replace them at our discretion and at no expense to you. This guarantee does not cover the natural breakdown of materials over extended time and use."

25 days does not constitute extened time or use IMO
take them back and request [very politely first of all] a replacement, if that fails speak to the store manager if that fails then a swift e mail to Mr Shae should do the trick, he really doesn't like anyone slating his product, you should find an e mail address for him on their website, if thety refuse then feel free to slam them all you like, if they do the decent thing and replace the liner [like any shop should do] then congratulate them on their customer service
post #13 of 16
Thread Starter 
First I emailed Surefoot and asked what constitued 'extended use' or 'normal wear' and got no answer. No response at all.

Then I went back to the store and the kid working there refused to acknowledge that there was any problem with the liner.

I am going back again, and it will be their last chance to replace the liner before I get really pissed.

It is a common practice in business to tell an unsatisfied customer to go f*** himself; and if he does, you're ahead of the game.
Only take him seriously if he returns, more than once, and makes it clear that he can't be brushed off like that.
post #14 of 16
Quote:
It is a common practice in business to tell an unsatisfied customer to go f*** himself
i find that this attitude does not result in many satisfied customers and normally ends up posted all over web forums

prehaps point them at this thread, there are a few industry specialists who have commented on the life span of a liner
post #15 of 16
Thread Starter 
One should keep in mind that this is New York City; and the Surefoot shop is run by New Yorkers who have never skied, and have no doubt that they are fully qualified to make ski boot liners: simply because they want to believe it.
As for alienating customers; this city produces politicians who have massive future ambitions (such as the presidency) yet pathologically make enemies of everyone they disagree with.
This is the culture of New York City; make the sale no matter what; score the cheap hit; make everything personal; ruin people who dare to disagree with you; threaten to kill someone over a parking space; call unsatisfied customers 'crybabies' 'whiners' and 'a-holes' to get them out of your store so you can sell more stuff to new customers.
Three well known political figures (Giuliani, Spitzer and Clinton) epitomize this short-sighted and antagonistic approach to life.

For someone from the UK: We're like the most extreme examples of British tabloids and House of Commons shouting matches, combined.
post #16 of 16
hey ...i studied pedorthics in NYC i know exactly where you are coming from
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