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Raxski, 1. Review

post #1 of 56
Thread Starter 
Finally I managed to get together with Tom, the inventor of the so called Raxski, Skis with Fins attached behind the binding.

To get an impression about that ski, if you haven't yet seen the photos I put a photo of the ski I used at the end of the report.

Area: Hochkar in Lower Austria. Situated between 1380-1860m. One of the areas with best snow coverage every year of Austria, mostly intermediate to advanced runs, some nice offpiste runs with many about 35°-45° maximum. Many tree runs (trees are rather tight and not wide open), some nice chutes and some big mountain offpiste terrain. As the snow offpiste was really heavy, nearly all off it was untracked, skiers and snowboarders alike didn't venture much into it.


Weather: The night before it didn't freeze and 30cm of fresh slush snow from the past 2 days. Until 10:30 was the sight despite clouds still acceptable, then it became worse and worse. It started raining around 11:00 at the bottom (snowing on the top) and by around 12:30 snowing down to the bottom of the skifield. Visibility became worse as the snowfalls became stronger and stronger during the day, at the end you couldn't make out much anymore with maybe 20-30m

My skiing skills: Very good carving and mediocre racing technique (SL and GS, No SG or DH due to lack of technique). Primarily I snowboard (racing PSL and PGS and freeriding plus a bit of extremecarving and some freestyle (Halfpipe and Big-Air). On skis I can practically only carve or race (carvin with some drifting), but that on every slope and also to quite a good level in moguls - When there are bad conditions I'm mostly the last person in the skifield still carving. I completely suck off-piste though, basically I only get down, but with no style or controll in pow except if I use skis like Praxis which I can ride with carving technique.

The First Impressions: Until 10:30 while the weather was still acceptable i did some snowboard extremecarving with a friend of mine and then I dared myself to try the Raxski. As Tom had already posted on a lot of Forums but I hadn't seen a single testreport yet, I didn't really know what to expect. I had planned to start at a gentle slople but as there was a que it was straight up with the lift to the steepest groomed slope of Hochkar, which is around 20-25° steep on the first 200m vert, so actually quite steep. The model I was on first had 3 fins and was pretty extreme and more for really steep descents than slopes or "only" 25°, and belongs to the Generation 2007 - which foce you into the backseat, but I didn't want to change my snowboard hardboots to skiboots so I took the only Raxski with non releasable snowblade binders that fitted well my Raichles.

At first I noticed that the ski really went slow on the flats, firstly because Tom never bothered to wax them, secondly because the surface area is really small (full length of that model only around 1m). The first turns where surprisingly easy, the ski basically turned all by itself, either by simply turning the feet or by angulating. You can do pretty much everything and no matter how unbalanced you are the fins will allways turn you back into the fallline if you make a mistake. After a few turns onpiste (very soft) I went into the really wet and heavy 30cm new snow besides the slope. I was a bit afraid how such small skis would float at all but do to the far back binding mount position and the backseat I was constantly in on that model the Raxski allways stayed with the tips above the snow. For braking you simply lean even more back, or turn the skis 90° which is really easy and quick do to the short length. Even some sort of backseat snowplow is really easy to do even in new snow to slow down. However already after the first run my hipps were on fire (and that's definitely not caused by missing training). I did a few more runs in different terrain and tried to get used to skiing mostly only on the part of the ski which is behind the binding - the finns. I got down some offpiste on the Raxskis, which I wouldn't dare with normal skis though (no probs on snowboard off course). Even though I went down some gnarly and steep terrain, my speed was allways on the slow side. I then changed to skiboots and a more conservative Raxski design, the "Rax Austria 2008".

Raxing on Rax Austria 2008:
The Rax Austria 2008 was a lot easier to ski. Except on steep parts you didn't have to dig in the finns but could also drift or engage the single fin for turning only. Carving is off course not possible on these Raxskis, I tried it some times but you would allways have on ski going different direction from the other. If in Pow or on Piste you can however ski the Raxski with closed leg position or wide stance, both works equally good. Keeping the skis parallel is very easy as they are so short, if on fins and equal weight on both feet the Raxski will always turn downhill and straightline, until you either give a turning input by feet, legs or upperbody, or to not only quickly change direction and then continue in the fallline you simply have to put more weight on the ski on the side to which you want to turn and it turns. It's really easy to understand the principle. I allways felt under controll, however straightlining steep chutes or forest I got afraid that the ski dives below the surface so I didn't go very fast offpiste (max maybe 50km/h, average around 30-40km/h). Tom often straightlined even 40° chutes at high speed (I'ld say up to 8ßkm/h) and leave lines in the snow where people looking at them would have bet all their fortune on, that they must have been made by ascending skiers, as noone could possibly straightline such terrain. I think with a few days skiing on Raxskis security and knowledge how to best put fore/after ballance for going really fast will come. Even though the speed wasn't that fast (I'm used to be descending lightning fast on my 2m Lonboard (Rad-Air Tanker) skiing the Raxskis was really fun and easy. After a few hours really exact steering off piste can be achieved, so you don't even need to think about slowing down when you approach really tight places, steering is much more exact than on normal skis or on snowboard, as nothing could through you off your chosen path. For example on moguls you can simply straightline without being bounced around by mooving you weigth back so that the tipps are in the air and the finns cut through the moguls. If you lean back too far, the finns will just break even more and you directly get back into ballance. A few times I leaned back so far that I fell onto my back, however basically instantly the finns would engage in the snow to bring you back up. Even though the Raxski are very short, they ride very stable once you engage the finns.

On the steepest parts I however had some problems with the design. When hockeystopping 2-3 times I booted out and then it was difficult to get up again as the finns wouldn't slow you down and the short lengt and width of the Raxski (60-70mm as old straight skis are used to build them, simply cut off behind the binders) wouldn't suffice to slow down in such steep parts. The only way to get up is therfore to roll over from sliding on your side onto your back (this is easy as behind your binding there is only the fin, and no ski to stop you rolling over) and then dig in the finns to get up again and then breaking with the finns while still going straight down the fallline. I imagine that this would become very difficult on really icy hardpack, in case the finns, don't get through the crust.


Conclusion:
Overall I really like the concept behind the Raxski and applaude the stubbornness of Tom continuing and improving his Raxski even though nearly all people who see the Raxskis were thinking that he is only crazy and that this concept can't work at all. Also most people don't find it stylish at all. According to Tom all except one of the 6 people who tried the Raxski so far however really liked it, and on his trip to the States beginning of March he found one person so happy about it, that he will start building Raxskis in New Hampshire. So it soon should become possible to test the Raxski in the wider area from NY northwards Raxskis will be available. After riding the Raxski I personally would like to have the finns applied to some real Big Mountain / Freerideskis to see what will become possible of riding with such a ski then. At least however mount the finns on some wider skis with say 100-120mm Underfoot. I think with the concept of finns you don't need very long skis, but a bit wider would be better in all circumstances. So broken Freeerideskis could be turned into some really good equipment for those days when there is now dry powder but either no new snow.



At around 14:30 I got of the Raxskis and put on my softboots to enoy my tanker. My friend who had been trying the tanker while I had been on the Raxski now decided to give the a try even though he had ony skied only once or twice during his life (he's not that young anyore but only started snowboarding after moving from England to Austria and had not been skiing beforehand as you would otherwise expect from every Austria as skiing is THE mainstream sport here). After explaining him how to get into the skibinders Tom, me and him directly took the chair up to the top and I thought already about wether it would be quicker for me to get back to the carpark to get him his softboots and a snowboard or wheter he would walk down quicker...... Getting off the lift he nearly fell down as he didn't think about not crossing over his skis and keeping them parallel. So Tom told him to just go straight and move the weight backwards to brake. Well surprisingly to both of us he directly began skiing without any apparent difficulties. We went down an interediate run which had huge moguls in the steeper sections due to the warm weather and strong snowfall, nevertheless he instantly found out how to turn and break. 10 minutes later and we were down to the base station. Both Tom and me were really stoked about him getting down the mountain without any serious technical flaws or mistakes, so alreay on the second run we went offpiste. The top part was angled at around 10-20° and didn't pose any difficulties so we decided to go down some difficult and steep terrain angled around 30°-40°. Some runs before my friend did have huge problems going down here on my tanker as he was too afraid to turn due to the steepness and the long unaccustoed length of the tanker. With the raxskis however he directly understood how to turn them and get down. Off course his speed was really slow but he kept going at a steady pace. Then he fell however and due to the steepness he could only get to a stop about 10m later narrowly missing some rocks. Now a bit afraid it was more one turn at a time in the really steep parts, once it got flatter however he regained confidence.


I now left my friend alone with Tom and got in some high speed runs on my tanker knowing that no ski ever comes close to the feeling of running a longboard down the mountain in fresh snow, feeling absolute sure about that as long I don't fall down a cliff that I wouldn't see with the now very strong snowfall nothing could possibly through me off. 2m length on a snowboard simply means huge stability and speed once you point it downhill on steep parts. About 45 minutes later it was 4PM so the lifsts closed down and I met Tom and my friend at the carpark. Tom was so overwhelmed by the perfomance of my friend on his first day on skis that he thought about mainly getting snowboarders to try out the Raxski. I'm pretty sure however that every sporty person can go down easily even double diamond runs on Raxskis on the first day, even if it is the first day skiing in his life. Skiing on Raxskis is simply much more natural for body movements compared to classic skiing even though at first sight it doesn't look so. Snowboarding off piste and carving on piste will however for the moment still stay in my main focus. Maybe with wider and slightly longer Raxskis this will change, but for the moment I can't imagine though. A few days per year of "raxing" would be great fun however. Nevertheless I do think that especially for the leisure skier Raxskis would be much easier and more fun than classic straight skis or carving skis.

I can't imagine Raxskis becoming a second discovery like snowboards, but think that i can be highly possible that skis with Finns like the Raxski will find their followers.


P.S.
Tom will bring his Raxskis to the Derby de la Meije in La Grave this year and to the Austrian Firngleitereisterschaften (Firngleiter or Figln are to say the parents of the Raxski) so interested skiers or boarders can give them a try.

I have first used a model siilar to this one but with 3 "teeth" and not 2 like shown here:


Then after the first few runs I have been on this model:
post #2 of 56
Tell us about flex and the swallowtail in back?

Is there going to be a toepiece wedge?
post #3 of 56
Thread Starter 
The Swallowtail in the back, fullfills the task of sinking in furter into the snow when going straight, but allowing for a little bi longer length when braking with a hokeystop or standin still or even turning. Off course the longer the section behind the fins, the less the fins will cut into the snow and the faster the ski will actually go, so it's a trade of from speed to controll. From the above skis, ski one is made for really steep terrain (above 40°) while I would say with ski two you can ski safely any steepness as long as the snow is on the soft side, but on icecrust or really strong windcrust ski two (Rax 2008 Austria) will become a little unsafe for above 45° descents.

Well as for flex, there is pretty much none, when it comes to the skis, at least it wouldn't matter at all with such short skis I believe. This will become important when designing longer skis. I think the main reason why so few (exactly one, which is in New Hampshire - you could send Tom a mail to info a,t. Raxski.com to ask how you can test that one in the states) longer or wider skis exist is because Tom can't get hold really cheaply or for free of such skis (there should be plenty from all freeskiers who break the ski behind the bindings) and that the swing weight would increase. So maybe much longer wouldn't be that good, I'm sure that much wider would still increase the fun. As you can ski the old skis where mostly cut of around the middle section and the cut off attached to the back, so flex distribution will be different from normal skis. In order to have the screws holding in the ski it clearly has to be cut around the thickes section.

I'm going to meet up Tom toorrow again, as we happen to both be at the same skifield.

I don't understand what you mean with toepiece wedge? With such short skis there is actually no need for releasable binders, any binders on the highest setting will do fine.
post #4 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremecarver View Post
I don't understand what you mean with toepiece wedge? With such short skis there is actually no need for releasable binders, any binders on the highest setting will do fine.
A wedge under the toepiece would allow the boot to sit flat within the toepiece instead of levered against the top and bottom.

Has he mounted any of them with tele bindings?
post #5 of 56
Thread Starter 
Oh I see, Well I couldn't see any, however the height difference wouldn't matter I believe, and on most skis, the binders are still mounted flat or on some he had installed bindings with a lever such as snowblade binders, and for that kind of binder it wouldn't matter at all. Except for the possibility of a fall, there is not much pressure on the binding anyhow (short length, short lever)
post #6 of 56
Thanks for the review.
post #7 of 56
Thread Starter 
On very short notive and pretty unexpected I met Tom today for a second time, so heres my take after two halve days on Raxskis.

Day2:


Yesterday evening I decided to stop learning for exams for a day and rather enjoy the new snow that had supposedly fallen (around 30-40cm according to the avalanche bulletin from today 08:00). Tom called me a bit later and asked if I would be going to ski today and I told him I'ld be at the Stuhleck.

Stuhleck - The area:
Compared to Hochkar above which has some really nice spots this is really a beginners skiarea, compared to most resorts around here I'ld say it's average. It was really bad until 3-4 years ago when they build a new chairlift getting into some more advanced terrain. There is only one steeper slope (around 15°), the rest of the area is rather doomed by blue and red runs, some of which I often frequent for race training in gates. For freerdingin its treeriding. On top there are some spots without trees, but the lower you go the denser the forest becomes, and there are basically no runs were you don't have to search your way through the trees, duck below branches...... If there is no snow on Rax this is the closest area to Wien where you can catch some turns offpiste. The next better areas around here being Gemeindealpe, Oetscher and Hochkar, and off course a bit longer the Krippenstein Freeride Area.

The Weather:
Overnight 10-15cm of dry and light powder had fallen, however near the Almlift in the forest due to snow movement by wind it were around 30-40cm. Enough to not touch the old snow below on flatter section, but going through to the ground on the steeper parts. Temperature around -3° at the Almlift.


Today I first rode my tanker. While of course on flatter parts or on piste I would go much faster than Tom on Raxskis, even though most of my freeriding is inside trees and I simply love boarding the forest, there was no way for me to keep up with Tom on Raxskis once inside the forest (and I fly past nearly all boarders once inside the trees even though a longboard isn't optimal for trees - only riders like Ralph Castelberg can beat me in that domain). Tom would really speed through trees at an amazing pace where I had trouble only turning my board as the trees were so close. Also on the run down of a small streambed, with someties banked corners I had trouble following him, simply because on sharp turns, I couldn't keep up. Once in a while going down the red (intermediate) slope instead of the forest, Tom would straightline the moguls on the sides while I tried to carve on the soft snow onpiste, we both getting down the mountain with about the same speed (me off course getting much more distance).

Back on Raxskis
After midday I switched again to some Raxskis, this time a longer model. Already onpiste I knew that this skis wasn't made at all for me. Tom called it a Half-Rax. Meaning a ski you can ski like normal, but with fins to the back once you need them. I could ski it down the forest, but it meant that my thighs were burning from not sitting down on backseat. We assumed that this is because the fins are quite far to the back from the binders. It's especially bad for someone like me whos main skiing skills are carving and who has never been on straight skis. Raxski modells with the fins further back mean that you have to stop by turning sideways, something fealing a bit awkward to me if I don't want to come to a full stop. It's better for people who can still master the now basically extinct technique of "wedeln". I however tried to controll speed with the Raxski only by leaning back, while trying to rest in the fallline, which was impossible with this model. After two runs I switched Raxskis with Tom who was on a bit shorter modell.
What a relief, with this model I could get down much easier. Turning them was a lot easier too. After a few runs I was able to keep up with Tom on gnarly sections or even go faster, I'ld say compared to my snowboard my speed had doubled in technical spots. As the few people who decided to freeride in the forest nearly all took the same way out of it, this way out was really tracked out, with many stones and earth coming trough. With the Raxski this didn't really matter, I had two big scratches in the base of my tanker, but the Raxskis stayed pretty untouched from the stones. This was not because they are harder or anything, but because you can react really fast and therfore avoid stones or trees a lot easier (even while going faster). My tighs still had to do a lot of work, but freskiing 400m vert through the forest without pausing was no problem.

After Two Days:

Pro's
====
Something different
Excel on steeper slopes where the snow is less than perfect
Very good on Moguls - you can simply go straight - virtually noone will be able to keep up with you on moguls
Quick turning
Superbe in the Forest


Con's
====
Doesn't glide like a normal ski/flat piste performance (Tom really should hotwax them instead of having bases turn white and burn, even if he thinks it doesn't matter cause it prefers so steep slopes where it really doesn't)
Skis are short = less surface area = less float on flat sections in the pow (they will never get below the snow however with the nose)
Not stable on very high speed (above 60-70km/h) due to short lenght (Practice might solve this)


Notices:
=====
No model is the same, while one Raxski might work for you, another won't. Development is still needed here, however in year 2 of employing that principle progress is very Far.

After thinking about how to make the Raxski more efficient to ski, I also got the idea to use boots with more forward lean (Dalbelloy Kryptons, or Raichles would be great with Raxski I belive). The first model I tested on day one was with my Raichle Snowboardhardboots with loads of forward lean, I think they made the skiing much easier than it would have been otherwise. By using boots with more forward lean, you could keep the upper body upright, even while being on the fins.

Rater use shoes with a lot of space before your toes, having shoes in sizes as used for racing would give you black toenails quickly, as leaning back pushes your foot forward inside the skiboots.



What would I like to See:
=====
Wider Models (in the pipeline according to Tom)

A two section fin, meaning light breaking and steering on leaning back a little, and a second fin which only gets into the snow on leaning far back. However the first fin should be usable without leaning back, but just moving your weight back a little bit, in order not to get down exhausted. The second fin would have to be at a higher angle to the ski than the first (currently I think 4-8° depending on the model).
post #8 of 56

RAXSKI in France / La Grave / Les 2 Alpes

Tom is racing Derby de la Meije April 4.
From Mar 30 on we are in Les 2 Alpes and La Grave,
staying in residence Village near the base station
of Valentine chair lift in Les 2 Alpes.
You can test Rax skis !!
My mobile is * 43 650 5252550
post #9 of 56
Will they be in the states again?
post #10 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremecarver View Post

Pro's
====
Something different
Excel on steeper slopes where the snow is less than perfect
Very good on Moguls - you can simply go straight - virtually noone will be able to keep up with you on moguls
Quick turning
Superbe in the Forest
post #11 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by samurai View Post
We are going to assemble 100 or so Rax skis
in NH/USA October 2008 and start public testing
and selling in November
post #12 of 56
This is sacriligeous. Rossignol 7Gs should be revered and given a decent burial. Your afterlives will not be the same...
post #13 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Murdoch View Post
This is sacriligeous. Rossignol 7Gs should be revered and given a decent burial. Your afterlives will not be the same...

Sigh.. blame all the greens. It's the ski version of
http://www.resomation.com/
post #14 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by RRider View Post
We are going to assemble 100 or so Rax skis
in NH/USA October 2008 and start public testing
and selling in November
:::

post #15 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by RRider View Post
We are going to assemble 100 or so Rax skis
in NH/USA October 2008 and start public testing
and selling in November
Good, I look forward to trying a pair.
post #16 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by tief schnee View Post
Good, I look forward to trying a pair.
Errr, in NH in Nov.? Hoping for Styroice?
post #17 of 56
Hi, how was the summer ?

We've convinced 3 snowboard manufacturer
to start making Rax skis.

Like this one


or this one


or this

post #18 of 56
Nice to see this corpse has resurfaced and just in time for Halloween.
post #19 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treewell View Post
Nice to see this corpse has resurfaced and just in time for Halloween.
BRRRAAAAAAAAAAAIIIINNNSSS?!??
post #20 of 56
I guess this is the real franken ski.
post #21 of 56
rrider. Send a set to California. We'll let you know how it works out. We'll give it a fair test. If nothing else, It would be great to see Tyrone test it out on Big Jim's.
post #22 of 56
He totally needs to send a set to Timberline Lodge.

Love the mismatched Gezes, BTW.
post #23 of 56
I'm mostly a fan of the plywood behind the heal-piece.
post #24 of 56
With these looks like you could hit everything switch and ride it into the road.
post #25 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirquerider View Post
rrider. Send a set to California. We'll let you know how it works out. We'll give it a fair test. If nothing else, It would be great to see Tyrone test it out on Big Jim's.
Hi, Cirquerider

Why not come to California
and let a container full of Rax skis follow,
provided that you Americans want change ?

We'll see on Nov 4.
Which ski resort is your home, Cirquerider ?
Am now very busy organizing the production
but would rather ski with you guys
than mount bindings and metal fins.
post #26 of 56

Rax skis 2009:  new videos

 



from Hochkar, Austria, April 19 2009
 




from Hintertux, Austria, June to Nov 2008

 

Rax skis used:

 

 

 

 

 

post #27 of 56

Every time I see a picture about the Raxski I continue to think that this is the worst idea out there.

 

I have yet to change my mind.

post #28 of 56

We have been already selling Rax skis !
But this is not so important fact
as we are still developing Rax technology
and changing model policy.

More important are our campaigns worldwide.
With Obama the US and the world got less
conservative and can accept the change,
even in alpine skiing.

But we don`t position Rax ski as
"either Rax or conventional skis".
rather as a new snow-going gear
that can be used after you got tired with
your normal long skis.
You immediately feel like a new born
on these easy turning short skis.

You (and nobody else) will decide
whether Rax is better for you
in specific conditions.

post #29 of 56

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom from Austria View Post

Rax skis 2009:  new videos

 



from Hochkar, Austria, April 19 2009
 


 

 


 

 


 

 


 

post #30 of 56

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

What a waste of a perfectly good slope!  Looks like you got some snowboarders to model them for you; I've seen that technique used by snowboarder's side-scraping down the hill.  Now they can do it bi-pedally.

 

"Easy turning skis" .  I've already got easy turning skis; so long as you know enough to tip them, they all turn easily at the speeds they were designed for.  Those are snow-skates with brakes attached to the back.  Now you can straightline moderately steep slopes without skiing faster than a golf cart.  Hey, if you don't want to ski fast, stay off the steeper slopes.

 

 

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