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Beware of Bachelor - Page 3

post #61 of 88
Never heard that one. They must have messed up pretty good. "again"
post #62 of 88

Powdr

Don't let Powdr on your rock because that's all you will have left when their done with it.
post #63 of 88
I've been going to Bachelor each year since 1982 until this season. Until Powdr Corp. took over, Bachelor used to be open until July 4th. I know there was a big fight among the major shareholders when Powdr acquired the resort. Maybe Newfydog or someone else here can shed more historical light on that. At all events, Bachelor has remained a fun place to ski though now it doesn't even stay open to Memorial Day.

My major complaint has been the growing quirkiness of the lifts there in recent seasons with all of the attendant delays and possible safety issues. It's just not worth the price.

The great thing about Bachelor is that it is not cluttered by real estate on the mountain or at the base. In other words, it looks like a ski area. I hope they get things straightened out.
post #64 of 88
Not to detract from the Bachelor Lift issues, but do you think this is the same kind of thing that will eek its way into Killington?

From my perspective, it already has begun to eek its way in, but then I don't live in the area and am not likely to see it first hand.
post #65 of 88
From what I've seen @ Bachy, Powdr Corp. buys a place, strips it down to bare bones with no intent of any maintenance much less improvements. So yes..........
post #66 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by slider View Post
From what I've seen @ Bachy, Powdr Corp. buys a place, strips it down to bare bones with no intent of any maintenance much less improvements. So yes..........
Don't really see that happening at Killington. They are installing a new detachable quad over the summer from what I've heard. That's a big investment.

On the other hand, they closed the main lodge during the week to save money and they closed early after opening late.

They suck, pure and simple.

bz
post #67 of 88

Yes, very possible

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekchick View Post
Not to detract from the Bachelor Lift issues, but do you think this is the same kind of thing that will eek its way into Killington?

From my perspective, it already has begun to eek its way in, but then I don't live in the area and am not likely to see it first hand.
If you havn't been to ktvz.com, you need to for maybe the answer. The local bend folks seem to have it nailed down as to how Powdr operates.

Here are the links to the recent two articles.

http://www.ktvz.com/Global/story.asp...&nav=menu578_2

http://www.ktvz.com/global/story.asp?s=8356311

The comment section is semi new so you may have to refresh the page to get the little blue text at the bottom that says "See all comments"

One long comment on the (first page I believe) explains it pretty well I think. "First link" ::
post #68 of 88

EEK it's way into other resorts

Well, one mans greed basically was proven when Daddies lawyers forced Pape
out with legal action. He is a grown man with a nice family and seems to
have about everything, yet still relies on Daddy to get him what he wants. I
do feel sorry for John and have respect for him, reason being he has a very
challenging issue in life and it must have been very tough for him yet he
has done some remarkable things and still is. The stuff he is pulling now
just shows the level of greed involved I guess. How much is enough and what
are the ramifications? Pwdr �took over� and it was not a �sell out!!� I
believe it�s called a leveraged buyout which is Dads specialty I think. It
appears greed is more important than customer service, satisfaction, safety,
people�s careers, maintenance and overall infrastructure repair and growth.
Things appeared better when Pape ran the joint. Either the Cummings boys
were buffaloed by the Mt.B staff or it was the other way around. Those four
where dead weight and had to go. Bottom line, things suck compared to the
past no matter what anyone says Pwdr hasn�t done their jobs!!!!! Their
business plan appears to be: Start emptying the barrel of experienced,
intelligent and valuable employees (without replacement). What is left at
the bottom of the barrel is what you can imagine and costs them less than a
� of what they were paying in salaries. Next step with the chosen few
�compliant� is to throw huge bonuses at them if they can make money �don�t
spend�. The few left end up working an unbelievable amount of hours just
trying to keep the mountain open. Sound like the way the place has been
running? The only improvement to the mountain I see is the new Pine martin
and that was necessary (Oh, and the cheap tube things that I heard paid for
themselves the first year). That cost peanuts compared to the ticket revenue
and many positions cut, not to mention the assets sold �parking lot and a
bunch more� and lack of spending. Before pwdr, when the board of ten or so
took their dividends and the rest went back into the mountain, heck they
built the carrousel, sunshine and sunrise in one year. Then came the nw and
then the summit four seater if I got that straight. Not to mention the ski
shop and other vast upgrades. PWDR hasn�t even built the main lodge that is
so necessary.





Sorry for the text layout but had to copy and paste from the ktvz web site.
lot's of good reading there.
post #69 of 88
BEND, Ore. (AP) - The owner of the Mt. Bachelor ski area has fired General Manager Matt Janney and three other officials, saying it hopes to mend what Janney acknowledged was a disconnect with customers.

Janney had been on the job for less than a year. Also dismissed were Carly Carmichael, the director of marketing; Mark Perry, the food and beverage director; and Ernie Pool, director of operations. The latter three had a total of six decades at the ski area among them

Justin Yax, a spokesman for Mt. Bachelor's parent company, Utah-based Powdr Corp., said the shake-up is intended to implement changes identified by Janney.

"Powdr Corp. feels that Matt Janney did a great job from an operations perspective identifying what was broken and prioritizing what needed to be fixed," Yax said. "But it will take a different skill set to implement those fixes. Powdr will be looking for a different skill set in its next GM."

Janney took over at Mt. Bachelor in July. Powdr Corp. bought Mt. Bachelor in 2001.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/19236114.html
post #70 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryel View Post
BEND, Ore. (AP) - The owner of the Mt. Bachelor ski area has fired General Manager Matt Janney and three other officials, saying it hopes to mend what Janney acknowledged was a disconnect with customers.

Janney had been on the job for less than a year. Also dismissed were Carly Carmichael, the director of marketing; Mark Perry, the food and beverage director; and Ernie Pool, director of operations. The latter three had a total of six decades at the ski area among them

Justin Yax, a spokesman for Mt. Bachelor's parent company, Utah-based Powdr Corp., said the shake-up is intended to implement changes identified by Janney.

"Powdr Corp. feels that Matt Janney did a great job from an operations perspective identifying what was broken and prioritizing what needed to be fixed," Yax said. "But it will take a different skill set to implement those fixes. Powdr will be looking for a different skill set in its next GM."

Janney took over at Mt. Bachelor in July. Powdr Corp. bought Mt. Bachelor in 2001.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/19236114.html
Blah,blah,blah. What a load of crap. All it takes is $ to maintan/repair the equipment, period.
post #71 of 88

You got it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slider View Post
Blah,blah,blah. What a load of crap. All it takes is $ to maintan/repair the equipment, period.
But powdr doesn't seem to consider that as a priority. They want that money. Don't forget it takes skilled employees to identify what money is needed and perform the work necessary. From what I have read, I dont think that's been happening.

I guess that's what you are saying.
post #72 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by BachBum View Post
But powdr doesn't seem to consider that as a priority. They want that money. Don't forget it takes skilled employees to identify what money is needed and perform the work necessary. From what I have read, I dont think that's been happening.

I guess that's what you are saying.
Yes it is. Member a couple of years ago when some employees were injured and 1 almost killed while working on a lift during the summer because they were not educated to recognize an unsafe enviorment. There are plenty of well trained mechanics and equipment operaters in this area. If the wages were liveable the resort would run like a Swiss watch. What happens at the hill stays at the hill, unless you know some insiders.
post #73 of 88
If I remember correctly didn't Powdr Corp sell the bus parking lot downtown recently for around $18 million? Now they have all these headlines about how they're investing $3.4 million in Mt Bachelor (incl a new bus parking lot) . . did everybody see that they are also investing $10 million in Park City now. Wonder where most of that $18 million went? So much for for supporting our ski area/community!
post #74 of 88

I remember.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slider View Post
Yes it is. Member a couple of years ago when some employees were injured and 1 almost killed while working on a lift during the summer because they were not educated to recognize an unsafe enviorment. There are plenty of well trained mechanics and equipment operaters in this area. If the wages were liveable the resort would run like a Swiss watch. What happens at the hill stays at the hill, unless you know some insiders.
The OSHA report is online. They all got lucky from what I understand “workers”. The paper said the mountain appealed charges and fines but that amount is peanuts paid to the state, not the people injured.
What about them?
How did that really happen?
post #75 of 88

Not all there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BachBum View Post
If you havn't been to ktvz.com, you need to for maybe the answer. The local bend folks seem to have it nailed down as to how Powdr operates.

Here are the links to the recent two articles.

http://www.ktvz.com/Global/story.asp...&nav=menu578_2

http://www.ktvz.com/global/story.asp?s=8356311

The comment section is semi new so you may have to refresh the page to get the little blue text at the bottom that says "See all comments"

One long comment on the (first page I believe) explains it pretty well I think. "First link" ::
Sorry, some comments were pulled from ktvz.com for fear of personal safety.
post #76 of 88

Sound Familiar . . From Killington Blog

The problem is Powdr and their approach to doing business here PLUS what we've learned about Mt. Bachelor that fits right into the Killington pattern. Trust has been broken and the impression now is it's them against us and visa versa. How the relationship between the resort and the town gets repaired is anybody's guess, but I think it would behoove John Cummng to get involved here directly, for Cumming and Chris Nyberg to publicly acknowledge that they've made mistakes (and identify those mistakes, not just say "mistakes were made") and start talking about how they're going to repair all the damage they've caused in less than one year of ownership. You cannot have trust without open and honest communication and, from the resort, that communication has been lacking since day 1. They've given the impression that they're more than willing to sacrifice the good of the town for the good of their resort and, until they change that impression, SP Land won't be doing much of anything.

No doubt. These folks are either quite stubborn or naive. It seems apparent that they will operate later this season, but why tip their hat?

John Cumming strikes me as coming from the Carl Icahn school, not the Warren Buffet school, of doing business. Icahn comes across as hardnosed, by the numbers, my way or the highway and "I'm rich so I can get my way and the rest of you don't matter". That's the way Cumming and Powdr appear here in Killington. They have so mismanaged their relationship with the community (local community and the broader skier community) that it's actually mindbogglinig to consider.

There are, based on comments made at Town Meeting, those who blame the Selectboard and others in the community for not giving Powdr a chance. The broader majority, however, want a change in attitude and approach to come from the mountain and not the other way around at this point. I firmly believe the initial steps need to come from the resort and have to include some serious outreach and mea culpas from Nyberg and Cumming. Unfortunately, that doesn't appear to be their style and I'm not sure either (I don't know Cumming so this is pure conjecture) is personally capable of making public acknowledgment of errors they've made.
post #77 of 88
Thanks bob5 for your honest interpretation. (start Jaws music)Bachelor locals are not going to take this sitting down. We are organizing to deal with this injustice. We demand respect towards our mountain and the community. (end Jaws music)
post #78 of 88
From what I've read the management situation at Bachelor is much more serious than at Killington.

1) Powdr has been in charge at Bachelor for 5+ seasons, with ongoing deterioration is services during that time. Issues like lift maintenance potentially impact anyone who skis there.

2) Powdr has been at Killington for only one year. According to some locals like Geoff the product for the typical weekend skier actually improved. Some people have been shafted (passholders, midweek and late season skiers, parents using the kids' program) but they are minorities.

3) Many Killington's issues so far can be classified as poor communications. As far as
Quote:
publicly acknowledging that they've made mistakes (and identify those mistakes, not just say "mistakes were made") and start talking about how they're going to repair all the damage
, that seems like a prerequisite for any turnaround at Bachelor.

Killington patrons should be worried though, because their product is much more dependent upon management commitment. It's much more difficult to f*** up a ski area that's getting 566 inches of snow.
post #79 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Crocker View Post
Killington patrons should be worried though, because their product is much more dependent upon management commitment. It's much more difficult to f*** up a ski area that's getting 566 inches of snow.
You are correct TC ... it takes real talent to screw up a mountain like Bachelor. I went to Bach 3-4 years ago and will never go back. It simply boiled down to poor value, everything was way overpriced and the customer service even worse. Customer service was pathetic, the attitude coming from employees basically communicated: Give me your money, dont' expect anything, shut up and go away ...
post #80 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Crocker View Post
...2) Powdr has been at Killington for only one year. According to some locals like Geoff the product for the typical weekend skier actually improved...

Killington patrons should be worried though, because their product is much more dependent upon management commitment. It's much more difficult to f*** up a ski area that's getting 566 inches of snow.
Killington had a great season, because of the great winter. I did hear that the snowmaking was good this year, but it's easier to tweak a good base than it is to create winter. They got lucky.

Killington will need to do a better job next season or there could be trouble. Gas and oil prices will affect their day-ticket business. I still can't believe they cut off the clubs.
post #81 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Jones View Post
I still can't believe they cut off the clubs.
Can you elaborate on this?
post #82 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
Can you elaborate on this?
Killington stopped participating in the Ski Club discount ticket programs this year, even though higher end resprts like Stratton, Okemo and Stowe remained in the program.

Also, for what it's worth, I'd hardly say Killington had a great or good year in 07/08. they have yet to announce their skier visits and it will be shocking if they surpassed 700,000 this year. In all likelihood, they will have experienced yet another double digit decline in a year when skier visits in VT and the rest of the NE were up 5-10%
post #83 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin Woodsman View Post
Killington stopped participating in the Ski Club discount ticket programs this year, even though higher end resprts like Stratton, Okemo and Stowe remained in the program.

Also, for what it's worth, I'd hardly say Killington had a great or good year in 07/08. they have yet to announce their skier visits and it will be shocking if they surpassed 700,000 this year. In all likelihood, they will have experienced yet another double digit decline in a year when skier visits in VT and the rest of the NE were up 5-10%
re: great or good year. What I should have said is that the skiing was very good at Killington this season. This is based on the reports from friends and fellow skiers. It was a great season for the skier. Many reported improved snow making and reduced crowds. I don't know how well Powdr did. I can say that they have made and continue to make enemies.
post #84 of 88
This morning I read that we got a new GM at Mt Bach . . the old marketing manager from Killington!!! Can we dip into the bottom of the Powdr barrel any deeper? We already know how Powdr Corp pissed off everybody at Killington last year . . so now we get one of the main culprits from there. Cosmic justice? Just what we needed . . a marketer to tell us "all is well" instead of a competent person that knows how to operate a ski resort. Reminds me of Fed Reserve Chairman Bernanke telling us all is well, and look where that has gotten us!!!

Janney was from Alpine Meadows, now another Powdr castoff from Killington . . is there a pattern developing here? Does Powdr Corp ever hire from outside? Or do they like to encourage incompetence from within?

Oh well, I guess we should give the new GM a chance to prove himself . . can it get any worse? But just in case, I think Mt Bach should provide a tube of KY with every season pass next year . .
post #85 of 88
I've been skepical about the house cleaning. Earlier this year they replaced a great patrol director, who's only fault was that he cared too much about the job and spoke his mind. They replaced him with a miserable brown nosed yes-man.
post #86 of 88
Killington had a great season? I think this means it was a lot better to ski at Killington this year. Doubtful they had a great season.
Comparisons in the ski industry are often ridiculous anyway. It's always compared to the previous year. Well 06/07 was a disaster of a season. No snow and warm temps till mid January. So if this year is the same as last year- that's a bad year since this year was somewhat epic in terms of snow. Dec. 07 - record snowfall. Snow continued for whole season even though there were rain days.

Talked to a different ski shop owner up near Killington. (not on access road)
He was very pissed off at them. Killington cut off the passes for his shop but, and this is what pissed him off, gave out passes to shops in Connecticut.
post #87 of 88
For more Bachelor chatter check out the posts starting on June 16th over here.
post #88 of 88
Sorry to resurrect this rather gloomy thread, but can anyone comment on the situation at Bachelor now that a couple of years have passed? Has anything improved?

I ask because I'm about to agree to take a gig in Bend that will have me and my family there for about 9 months starting fairly soon (in time for this year's ski season). I was born and raised at Tahoe and have been an avid skier for going on 35 years, so one of the conditions for my taking the gig is that I get season passes for the entire family. But I would strongly reconsider the entire thing if there is still a safety situation as overt as what I'm reading here.
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