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Do you "scoop" your turns?

post #1 of 3
Thread Starter 
When I learned to do fast short turns this year, I found myself moving in a new way which I can best describe as "scooping" my turns. I haven't encountered descriptions of this process/feeling, so I'm wondering if I'm doing something odd or wrong, or if I just missed this type of turn in all the discussions going on in this forum about different turn processes.

So here's the description of the turn:
--very short quick turns, narrow line
--feet pretty close together
--torso follows a straight line down the hill, facing forward
--torso "rocks" fore-aft with each turn
--feet describe a sideways, rhythmic, "figure eight" beneath the quiet torso
--to begin the new turn - either both feet tilt together, or the new inside leg collapses at the knee as that foot tilts the boot/ski into the new turn (both seem to work depending on the snow quality)
--there is a pronounced feeling that the body is pulling the skis forward from behind the body during each turn, which feels like "scooping" the skis forward. It is this "scooping" sensation that most defines the turn for me.

Is this orthodox skiing? I've never read anyone talk about feeling like you're pulling the skis forward, or scooping the skis, although I'm wondering if it could be very common and people just don't focus on that.
post #2 of 3
Liquidfeet, it is orthodox skiing. Basically what is happening is that your center of mass (body) is taking a much shorter line down the hill than your skis. Your body moves at a steady pace down the falline while your skis speed up and slow down throughout the turn. In the top half of the turn, the skis are moving away from the body, traveling slower and get behind you. In the bottom half of the turn, the skis are moving much faster, are traveling back towards your body and need to catch and pass you This very well could be perceived as a scooping action or feeling if done correctly.

The greater the difference in path between the body and the skis the more pronounced this effect will be. What you have described is the essence of a cross under turn done with more offensive movement patterns rather than defensive movement patterns.

Bob Barnes gives a more thorough explanation of the mechanics involved in this recent post in another thread.
post #3 of 3
Thread Starter 
So to follow up, I worried that this "pulling/scooping" feeling was indicative of something problematic. Seems like pulling the skis is not a good idea since I've never read about it, and I thought it was probably an illusion of some sort. Your description explains well why it just feels like pulling, but really isn't.

I've only felt this with very short quick turns. Is it a feeling I should pursue for medium radius turns? Is it something I'll probably feel when I get better at that size turn? I understand the mechanics of the fore-aft movements BobBarnes is discussing, and wonder if I get that going more dramatically in medium turns if the feeling of pulling/scooping will follow.

I can't imagine that feeling being possible with wide turns, but does it happen there too?
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