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Flexon/Krypton/Full tilt skiing style question

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
Just about everything I've read about the Flexon/Krypton/Full Tilt style boots says that you ski differently with these boots. You use your knees more. I've experienced it myself as I just recently tried some Full Tilts so I know what everybody is saying. What I want to know is why? Is it because of the progressive forward flex? Forward lean? Something else entirely?

Based on my 4 hours with the Full Tilts, I felt like I used entirely different muscles to ski. I was so sore the next day. And it's not like I haven't skied recently. It was day 63 for me this year. I really liked the flex of the boots but I'm not sure if I like the skiing style. Does anybody have experience of switching to this type of boot and how long did it take you to adapt.
post #2 of 20
If I had to guess why you had that experience I'd say that you haven't been on the boots long enough to trust them. Because of the flex you can hang on the front of the boots with your weight in a way that would almost be dangerous in conventional boots. We've all had that uncomfortable feeling of getting too far forward and "getting ahead of our boots," which is very hard to do on those. My experience is that the Flexons/Kryptons/ Full Tilt can (and have to) be skied with your weight farther forward than conventional boots. Until you get used to hanging out there you will be doing a lot of unnecesary back and forth, hence the tired muscles. I actually find my Kryps way more relaxing to ski than my X-waves in every kind of condition. Being forward is where you should be, and the boots will be working for you more of the time. Once you get the hang of it you will find that it is much harder to end up in the "back seat."

You are used to going from a netral postion to pressuing the boot and turning. If you start from your old neutral, because of the progressive flex you have a long way to go before the boot turns your ski and then a long way back to your old neutral. But you can pressure the Full Tilts a little without turing your skis, which means your weight is already forward and you are getting some shock absorption, then go back and forth from there as your neutral postion. The boots definitely have a learning curve, but if you concentrate on the feel of the flex it'll come pretty quick. Eventually you should have a much better feel of your boots, skis and the snow than with your old boots.

Regular boots have an on/off feel, the Tilts have a progressive pressure that lets you fine tune what you are doing to you ski. Its a lot more information than you are used to receiving from your boots.
post #3 of 20
I definitely notice a different skiing technique, but I can't put my finger on what exactly it is. So far while I love the flex and lack of shin bang (main reason I got the boots) I still am not entirely comfortable on them, them being a Pro with stiff tongue. We'll see
post #4 of 20
I got some Kryp Pros this year. Here's a couple subtle differences I've noticed:
1. I ski a little more upright.
2. Forward lean - you can adjust for more, but they don't seem to have as much as my old Atomic M10's. That's okay though.
3. While I don't feel my "style" has changed that much, when I get home, I notice more muscle tenderness than in the past. Something has changed, but it hasn't affected my skiing.
4. There's a lot of height to this boot. Be ready for that. Especially if you get them with the ID liners. It's at least an inch or two taller than my M10's were.
5. Like Mudfoot mentioned, you have to be more aware of pressuring the tongue to initiate your turn.
6. They seem to take more work to get adjusted to fit well. Once you get them there however, they're nicer than average. They are very touchy in their fit as well - if I have the micro-adjust on the buckle a turn or two too tight, I KNOW IT.
post #5 of 20
Skiing style?

I found with Flexons/Kryptons (some experience in Kryptons, none in the "new Flexons," lots in the old Flexons) that I was flexing, actually bending the knee, a lot more to get the same desired outcome as with conventional overlap boots. This changes the physics of turn initiation and shaping considerably: affecting whole-body flexion/extension, preventing you from keeping your "long leg" long when you need to, not allowing you to stay "stacked" over your edges in the most efficient way, bringing the hips out of alignment when angulating, etc. As terrain changes (e.g. bumps, steeps) these issues will be magnified.

Any strong skier will be able to get these boots to work for her/him, and rather well, but given modern ski technique and design, I don't think they're the best choice for most skiers looking to break through the intermediate plateau.

But, the lateral response is incredible, just amazing. The rear spoiler design delivers a lot of power.

I have my old Flexons from college racing days and used to get them out and ski in them regularly because I was never satisfied with my new boots for that year, whatever they were.

Until I got my Falcon 10s, that is....
post #6 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by faber View Post
Skiing style?

I found with Flexons/Kryptons (some experience in Kryptons, none in the "new Flexons," lots in the old Flexons) that I was flexing, actually bending the knee, a lot more to get the same desired outcome as with conventional overlap boots. This changes the physics of turn initiation and shaping considerably: affecting whole-body flexion/extension, preventing you from keeping your "long leg" long when you need to, not allowing you to stay "stacked" over your edges in the most efficient way, bringing the hips out of alignment when angulating, etc.

As terrain changes (e.g. bumps, steeps) these issues will be magnified.
I don't know what "stacked over the edges" means, but the progressive flex and lateral stiffness of the Kryps allows me to carve in any snow condition like no other boot. It's easy to get a ski on edge, but try riding that carve smoothly and continuously through bumps or radically broken heavy crud. With a stiff flex boot you are in an almost constant fight to keep just the right amount of pressure (but not too much) on the front of your boot and your ski(s). The Kryps allow me to essentially relax into the flex of the boot and let it do alot of the work for me. It is exactly like the difference between skiing bumps on a ski that is too stiff and one that has a nice mellow flex that works with the bumps instead of fighting them.

I know I am starting to sound like a self-appointed Krypton expert and salesman in my posts about this boot, and I am certainly not either. Obviously, it is not an easy boot to jump into and immediately ski well if you are coming from a conventional high end or race type boot, but for me and some others it is a huge step in refining the connection with your skis and the snow. There is a lot more going on with the flex of these boots, which makes them much harder to "figure out," but for some of us it was worth the effort.

My wife is 5'5" and less than 120 lbs. When she switched from Technicas to Flexons she was almost in tears and literally could not ski for 3 days, but I encouraged her to stick with it. Now (10 years later), I would bet that most of your would have a very hard time keeping up with her in bumps, powder or crud while she skis on Rossi B2s, Chubbs, or Volant Super Carves, all in a 170, which by most standards should be too long for her. Our personal experience is that these boots work very will for driving all but the stiffest skis, but as evidenced by many of the posts here they are not for everyone.

Be warned, Kryptons, Full Tilts and Flexons will screw up your skiing and require a change of style! Depending on the individual this may be a very good or very bad thing.
post #7 of 20
When I switched away from my kryptons I was in tears. Tears of happiness. Even though my new boots still needed work and hurt in a few places, they were just millions times more responsive. For the first time all it took was a little flex, closing of the ankle, and zoom my skis hooked up and I was flying through my turn. It was like I had blinders on with the krypton and now i've seen the light.

Never going back.
post #8 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilT View Post
When I switched away from my kryptons I was in tears. Tears of happiness. Even though my new boots still needed work and hurt in a few places, they were just millions times more responsive. For the first time all it took was a little flex, closing of the ankle, and zoom my skis hooked up and I was flying through my turn. It was like I had blinders on with the krypton and now i've seen the light.

Never going back.
My reaction was the same going the other way. When I went back to Flexon/Kryptons I was also in tears, it was like I was free again. My X-waves responded and skied beautifully, but it was like I had novicane in my feet, I couldn't feel my skis and the snow and it made skiing feel mechanical. I didn't realize how much of the joy it took out of my skiing. It was like trying to make love with mittens on. The first run on the Kryps was like falling in love again, I had reconnected to the snow, and I'll never let that connection go.

Quicker response vs. more feel about sums it up. Different strokes for different skiers.
post #9 of 20
It's good there is more than one ski boot available for sale.

For me, the Flexon/Kryptons were never stiff enough and were not instruments of subtlety, especially at speed, lateral movements excepted (although is there any high-end boot out there that lacks efficient lateral response?). When tele skiers started buying up old Flexons for their tongues a few years back, I could understand why.

I think they're solid intermediate boots and non-technical freeride boots. For mastering on-piste technique, including steeps and bumps, and more technical off-piste there are better tools.

(As for "carving through bumps"....see if your local ski school has any bump clinics or group lessons for bumps. There are several progressions to help gain confidence in the bumps and break the desire to carve through them.)
post #10 of 20

Forget carving, go for the skid!

Quote:
Originally Posted by faber View Post
(As for "carving through bumps"....see if your local ski school has any bump clinics or group lessons for bumps. There are several progressions to help gain confidence in the bumps and break the desire to carve through them.)
Yeah, I definitely need more work on my skidding. I admit, those stiff boots work really well when you have to jam on your edges after a good skid in the bumps.
post #11 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by faber View Post
I think they're solid intermediate boots and non-technical freeride boots. For mastering on-piste technique, including steeps and bumps, and more technical off-piste there are better tools.
Not trying to be antagonistic... but if you mean bumps as in mogul skiing, check out the following skiers; the flexon comp (or pros ?)

http://www.askmen.com/women/gallerie...picture-2.html


and the full tilt

http://www.freestyleski.ca/eng/photo...an22/Heil2.jpg

http://www.canada.com/reginaleaderpo...c1738d&k=16820


A former Olympian that I got some coaching from loves the Kryptons.
post #12 of 20
And I raced the crap out of them, too, back in the day, and was their biggest fan. (And there is a big difference between how pro mogul skiers take the bumps and John Q. Public, the terminal Level 6. Is the average skier using the same skis as pro mogul skiers?)

We could go back and forth about this...

The OP asked about how Flexons/Kryptons could influence skiing style. I'll restate what I said above: a strong, already accomplished skier can make them work rather well; for skiers looking to progress to higher levels, there are better options.
post #13 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by faber View Post
And I raced the crap out of them, too, back in the day, and was their biggest fan. (And there is a big difference between how pro mogul skiers take the bumps and John Q. Public, the terminal Level 6. Is the average skier using the same skis as pro mogul skiers?)

We could go back and forth about this...
No need to.... my bad, it was just the way i read your remarks that put it out of the context (in my mind), as stated not trying to ruffle any feathers.
post #14 of 20
None ruffled.

Cheers, Jack.
post #15 of 20

full tilts reportedly have the lowest ramp angle of any boot

that may have some effect on skiing technique and sore muscles mentioned above.

i already have the kryptons and love them. im going to get last years ft just for the price of the liner.
post #16 of 20
sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I just bought Krypton Pros. Evogear lists the flex as 100-140 so I assume the stiff tongue is close to the high end. I know this metric isn't 100% comparable across manufacturers, but can it really be that off? I have been skiing Nordica Grand Prixs Racing (i think 130 or so) and more recently Diablos. Is the Krypton really going to fold while railing on groomers?

185 lbs.
5'11''
very aggressive, ex-racer
post #17 of 20
with the stiff tongue, and the rear flex adjustment in the stuffer mode, it should be fine.
keep in mind that the start of the flex will be soft, but the boot will be hard to bottom out. the flex curve is not straight line
post #18 of 20
I hear you cannot carve in them.

I liken them to the "mac" of ski boots, they do 90% the same as a traditional boot (See: PC) but it is the other 10% that make the difference.
post #19 of 20
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s....php?p=2168120


some good info on the krypton vs the full tilt
post #20 of 20
vail2008, I may not be the best judge because my background is strictly recreational skier and I've never skied in race boots. In fact, prior to getting the Krypton Storm a couple years ago, I was in a boot that was 2 sizes too big for me and, well.......you can imagine the huge jump in performance just by reducing my size by 2.
This season I decided to get a Krypton Kryzma and do some comparison of the stiffer, higher performance boot in the Women's Krypton line.

The flex rating on the Storm = 75-105
The flex rating on the Kryzma = 80-120

I realize that you can customize the Krypton as well change the flex with the tools that come with the boots, but I found the Kryzma's stiffer flex and higher cuff height did two things.......
  • emphasized my Q angle
  • kicked my carving skills up a notch



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