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Today in the "Great Northeast" (long)

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
I just can't resist commenting:

I'm looking out my window to another in what seems to be an endless stream of rain storms. I've lived just north of Albany all my life, so the Adirondaks and the Greens are in my backyard. I've skied for nearly 50 years, so you might say I've seen alot.

Is the weather like the "old days"? No way. We used to get the "January Thaw" each year that would disrupt the season for a week or two, until the next storm would put things right again. Now, if you don't get out and get it soon after it falls, you're probably gonna lose!

This past season, I've read a few posts by people looking for advise as to Eastern destinations. They had to fly to get here :! This entails airfare, rental car, lodging, lift tickets and food. IMHO, (and I know there are those who'll think I'm a pessimist), if you have to fly to go skiing, don't come here!!! Go West. Your chances of better snow are infinitely higher than here. Our resorts are just as good at over-charging as those in the West!

I've been taking a week in the West for the last 20 years and have only lost maybe once. It is much more likely to snow for your vacation week in the West than it is here in the East...just the way it is and always has been. Our storms are much more infrequent than the West.

A common myth is that if it's raining, say in Albany, it'll be snow "up North". Maybe, maybe not. We don't have Colorado's elevation working for us! The base elevation of my "home" area, (Gore), is 1,500'.

We had a great week last week; ~12" in VT during the week and another 15" by Saturday. I went to Stratton on Sunday and by noon, there were icy patches showing up on steeps, (combo of wind and traffic)! There is an underlying base of ice here in the NE, (rain and our wonderful snowmaking), and really, not much sticks to it!
We do get some really good spring days however .

Yep...I'm buying into global warming, greenhouse or whatever you want to call it. The NE has suffered a lot of rain/ice/snow winters in the near past years and I may be being pesimistic, but I don't hold out much hope for better. Sure, we'll get the occasional 'good' winter, but it's probably not going to be the rule.

Remember, an optimist is someone without experience!
post #2 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by C.B. View Post
Our storms are much more infrequent than the West.

Being a meteorology major, I must call BS on that statement. We all get the same weather patterns. It's just a matter if it dumps everything before it gets to you.

I love how everyone wants to scream "global warming" when they have no education on the matter other than "I've skied for the last 20 years and it's been getting worse every year!". Give me a break.










Let the fireworks begin.:
post #3 of 25
Well, whether you believe GW or not, this year's weather has been driven by La Nina, which is a seasonal (short term) sort of cycle, not a long term thing that GW would hypothetically be. There may be a link between GW and instances of La Nina that I don't know about, but regardless, La Nina is the primary driver here.

It sucks that we got 16" of great snow in WV last week, and yesterday it rained cats and dogs. Roads flooded it was so bad. This is up high at 4800 ft elevation which normally compensates for the lower latitude. It's the way the whole season has gone. I don't think we got more than 2 days of cold weather following any snow dump, and most of the snow dumps have started as rain or been followed by rain. We just have not gotten a break this season.
post #4 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGnar View Post
Being a meteorology major, I must call BS on that statement. We all get the same weather patterns. It's just a matter if it dumps everything before it gets to you.

I love how everyone wants to scream "global warming" when they have no education on the matter other than "I've skied for the last 20 years and it's been getting worse every year!". Give me a break.










Let the fireworks begin.:
No give me a break. You apparently don't know S*** about the Northeast. There are many well qualified weather specialists who know all about New England weather and they point directly to climate chang and Global Warming.

Would you admit at least - climate change?
post #5 of 25
Northern Vermont has gotten tons of snow this year. I think it's been a great season and I credit (in this case) global warming. It will be interesting to hear how warm this season has been vs other winters. I believe that it has been a warm one with lots of moisture.
post #6 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGnar View Post
Being a meteorology major, I must call BS on that statement. We all get the same weather patterns. It's just a matter if it dumps everything before it gets to you.

I love how everyone wants to scream "global warming" when they have no education on the matter other than "I've skied for the last 20 years and it's been getting worse every year!". Give me a break.










Let the fireworks begin.:

So, weather guesser from Fla, tell me why it's raining every so many days here? Have you lived here for 61 years? No you haven't; I have. There's no doubt, it's changing.

We clearly get more rain/ice storms now than we did say 30 years ago. The ski seasons were much more consistent. The Weather channel interviewed the Jiminy Peak people, ('cause they went green and installed a wind turbine), and even they say the winters aren't what they used to be.

BTW, how's it looking for the beach this weekend?:

Peace!!
post #7 of 25
Jiminy Peak has a wind turbine but the month of January was not quite cold enough to make alot of snow. It's been a good season for them due to natural snow, which is unusual. A normal season would have low snow fall but cold temps.
post #8 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGnar View Post
Being a meteorology major, I must call BS on that statement. We all get the same weather patterns. It's just a matter if it dumps everything before it gets to you.

Being a meteorology major you haven't gotten your BS down yet have you?

"We all get the same weather patterns?" Oh, of course...that's why the Oregon Coast looks so much like the Sahara.

Really, I can't imagine anyone studying meteorology making such an asinine statement.
post #9 of 25
I agree with C.B. that anyone that needs to get on a plane and rent a car has to be crazy to come to New England. If it's the difference between loading up the car versus flying however, you have a different situation. As a "senior" skier now in his 40th season, I can't say I agree that the eastern winters have changed all that much. I remember bad seasons with lots of rain and lousy snow in the 1970s and 1980s, just like we sometimes get now. That's the northeast and our low elevations. LIve with it and think glass half full, not half empty.
post #10 of 25
Thread Starter 
Hi everybody, might I offer an Olive Branch? Sure didn't want to start a flame war. I'm really bummed about this weather, (I may not have that many seasons left, especially at my age )

Assuming the meterology student is about to get his/her degree, I'd like to also offer some advice, (remember it's free.....).

Actually, I'm not uneducated, as Ive worked as a research scientist in the chemical industry for 40 years, (and still going,thank you). The education process is certainly necessary, especially in the science field. All you learn from the texts and lectures will go a long ways to prepare you for your "real" education: On-The-Job. You will learn much more here than all the years in undergrad.

Try to keep an open mind and learn to think for yourself. Use your schooling as a tool to take in data, analyze it, and then decide for yourself if it's BS or not. You'd be surprised at how much your fellow workers can teach you.

Sounds like you're going to Denver....best of luck!! I can think of no better place for a skier than there.

Enjoy!!!!

C.B.
post #11 of 25
CB -

Don't worry about TheGnar. There are plenty of corporate funded scientific research firms looking for people like him. He'll be making more money than all of us soon.
post #12 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rio View Post
CB -

Don't worry about TheGnar. There are plenty of corporate funded scientific research firms looking for people like him. He'll be making more money than all of us soon.
Yep...you're probably right. Wouldn't take much to make more than me; us lab rats aren't paid well at all. (Maybe I really am uneducated :!!)

As for my pessimistic outlook, (really drives my wife nuts), I feel that any surprises will be good ones .

Best regards to all....ski safe and often.
post #13 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by C.B. View Post
A common myth is that if it's raining, say in Albany, it'll be snow "up North". Maybe, maybe not. We don't have Colorado's elevation working for us! The base elevation of my "home" area, (Gore), is 1,500'.
My parents are in Queensbury/Lake George, and my dad said they got something like 28 inches in the last week. Just a few miles south in GF the accumulations were smaller. Where you are, the ridges you are in the shadow of, etc. make a lot of difference.

But yeah, the rain sucks. I was thinking about it the other day and I don't believe I've been rained on this season.
post #14 of 25
No doubt the elevations for ski hills are much higher out west than here in New England but you can definately have diferent weather from Albany to the mountains or from Burlington.

Today in the MRV it was raining lightly when I started up the Sugarbush Access Rd, about halfway up it was sleeting and when I got near the base area it was mix and on the upper mountain it was all snow.

The snow surface conditons were very diferent on the lower mtn vs the upper mountain. Weather CAN vary quite abit from valley floor to base to the summit, even here in New England.
post #15 of 25
I left Gore this morning. Rain was falling by the bucket load. This and the warming trend does not bode well for the next few weeks unless the warming trend breaks
post #16 of 25
Let me get this straight... someone thinks that a winter with a lot of snow means that global warming isn't happening? Is he brain damaged?

One of the effects of global warming is MORE moisture carried by the atmosphere. The moisture carrying air hits a cold place, like the high altitudes of CA, the Rockies or New England, and dumps the moisture as snow. This happens even if temps are 10 degrees above 'normal'.

So you get 25 degree snow instead of the 15 degree snow of the last century. And then you get rain. And then severe meltoffs and flooding.

Winters with record breaking snow are further evidence of global warming; just like more severe hurricanes in the tropics; and more frequent and severe tornadoes in the midwest. All of these events are evidence of more energy in the atmosphere, which is what GW is - more energy.

If it stayed cold and the snow built up, then there'd be a question about global warming.
post #17 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimH View Post
As a "senior" skier now in his 40th season, I can't say I agree that the eastern winters have changed all that much. I remember bad seasons with lots of rain and lousy snow in the 1970s and 1980s, just like we sometimes get now.
I sure hope you're right.

I've only lived in the northeast for 15 years. I seem to remember it was much drier and colder when I first got here. I just don't remember all this freezing rain stuff! Never mind pure, watery rain.

I also remember a lot more bitterly (almost dangerrously) cold days, which the past few seasons I pretty much didn't experienced any (though perhaps our clothing has improved I don't feel quite so cold... ).

Maybe it's just a big cycle and we will get out of it. Let hope. In the mean time, unfortunately, more and more of us are flying out west with our skis and leaving our local resorts high and dry (or low and wet? ). So when it does snow, there're only half as many places to go to and three times as long lift lines...
post #18 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by C.B. View Post
I just can't resist commenting:

This past season, I've read a few posts by people looking for advise as to Eastern destinations. They had to fly to get here :! if you have to fly to go skiing, don't come here!!! Go West. Your chances of better snow are infinitely higher than here. Our resorts are just as good at over-charging as those in the West!

We had a great week last week; ~12" in VT during the week and another 15" by Saturday. I went to Stratton on Sunday and by noon, there were icy patches showing up on steeps.. there is an underlying base of ice here in the NE, and really, not much sticks to it!
Truly, how anyone can recommend that someone fly to an East resort is a mystery. I've seen the posts too, and how someone could possibly suggest it's worth the time and effort is hallucinating. For essentially the same money you can get the real thing versus a poor imitation.

I had the same experience last weekend with all that snow getting brushed off the hill (thanks boarders!) leaving that glistening ice crust all over the place. Thankfully I'm in Utah now, where a little squall this afternoon left about 4-5 of fresh outside waiting for tomorrow's first chair.

BTW, putting steeps and Stratton in the same sentence takes a lot of guts.
post #19 of 25
Check this out

http://www.uvm.edu/skivt-l/?Page=mansel.php3

It doesn't seem like things have changed all that much.
post #20 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post
Check this out

http://www.uvm.edu/skivt-l/?Page=mansel.php3

It doesn't seem like things have changed all that much.

Data can be manipulated to say anything. In this case, what the charts do not show is how the weather lately has affected the "quality" of the snow that has fallen.

I know I sound like an old far*, but we did not have nearly the number and frequency of surface-destroying rain that we do now. Sorry, but IMHO, I believe it to be true.

Charts will not replace the human observer....both are needed to come to an informed decision.

We agree to disagree .
post #21 of 25
The weather may have been colder with less rain 30 years and more ago but also there were slow lifts with LOOONG lift lines, absolutely crappy snowmaking, relatively poor grooming and of course the old gear. To me it was just as much fun then as now.....but the skiing today is simply better overall than "the good ole days"

Lets hope the rain/snow line says as far south as possible this weekend. I'm hearing different reports of rain vs snow in the mountains...possibly 1-2" of rain..possibly snow??
post #22 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treewell View Post
The weather may have been colder with less rain 30 years and more ago but also there were slow lifts with LOOONG lift lines, absolutely crappy snowmaking, relatively poor grooming and of course the old gear. To me it was just as much fun then as now.....but the skiing today is simply better overall than "the good ole days"

Lets hope the rain/snow line says as far south as possible this weekend. I'm hearing different reports of rain vs snow in the mountains...possibly 1-2" of rain..possibly snow??
True enough...lines of ½ hour were common on the weekends. I remember once, on a beautiful day it the '70s, at Magic, mgt put an employee with a bullhorn, on a stepladder next to the lift line. This guy was shouting out trivia questions and the correct answers were given candies. I guess that was their way of taking our minds off the line!

On the other hand, (remember, I'm a self-proclaimed pessimist), the new lifts have more people on the trails, (that had to be widened to accomodate 'em), making you feel like an ant-on-a-sugar-cube. I have developed the habit of looking over my shoulder before I make a turn. Yep, the snowmaking is much better, however the amount of people on the hill eats up that AM corduroy in a hurry, leaving us to go on the snow-hunt by late morning.

Hmmm, I guess my wife is right, I really do look at things with a critical eye!! Oh well .

Remember, about the only thing Mr. Orwell got wrong was the date!
post #23 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by C.B. View Post
True enough...lines of ½ hour were common on the weekends. I remember once, on a beautiful day it the '70s, at Magic, mgt put an employee with a bullhorn, on a stepladder next to the lift line. This guy was shouting out trivia questions and the correct answers were given candies. I guess that was their way of taking our minds off the line!
I remember that!! Wow, you must be as old as me!
post #24 of 25
The snow pack up North is on the huge side this season. Because of the amount of rain that has fallen and soaked into the snow, the amount of water frozen in the snow pack is extreamly high. This means that run off will likely cause flooding and the dense snow pack could provide great spring skiing. Too bad none of the mountains plan to stay open.

Tuckerman's could have a good spring.
post #25 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Jones View Post
Too bad none of the mountains plan to stay open.
Let's just wait and see about that.
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