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Review: 2009 Hart F17 Mogul Ski

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
Hart F17 Mogul Ski
(103.8-66.6-89.2)

23m radius @ 173cm
23m radius @ 180cm
27m radius @ 185cm
27m radius @ 188cm

2008-2009


[click here for larger picture]


Manufacturer Info:
Hart Ski Corporation
641 E. Lake Street, Suite 225
Wayzata, MN 55391
Tel.
(952) 476-7849
Fax (952) 476-7845
http://www.hartskis.com


Suggested Retail Price (MSRP):
$1,049

Usage Class:

Moguls

Your Rating (with comments):
(1="get me off these things"->10="I have to own a pair")

9 (not just for bumps...excellent frontside hardpack ski)Summary:

One of the rare "real" mogul skis designed to compete in the modern bump contests. Already winning competitions in 2008. Serious pivoting agility with as much pop off bumps and stability when slammed back down as you might want. Excellent grip underfoot and confident dampening control. Balanced swing weight and looks like a very durable construction. Excellent hard-snow performer outside the bumps with quick turns on-demand and lots of spunk without any "race ski" feel. Got bumps? Get the F17.


Technical Ski Data:

Dual layer wood core, titanal & fiberglass sandwich construction. Melamine sidewalls, PTEX4000 bases, aluminum tip and tail components. Hand made in small batches.

Pre-Skiing Impression:

Very nice quality, excellent finish. "No-scuff" textured topsheet layer. Snappy hand flex with a strong tail and compliant shovel with good torsional strength. Narrow compared to today's typical recreational skis. Specialized for its job.

Test Conditions:

Cold, dry packed powder conditions, perfect combination of packed groomers and some cut-up fresh stuff (only a few inches) on the side of some trails. Some broken-up crust plate garbage and granular junk and hardpack on some trails.

Test Results:

The F17 is a quick, narrow cutting tool with tons of spunk and response to commands, yet has very good dampening qualities to eliminate any trace of squirrely feel. This ski can take a load and deliver it where you want it along its length. Excellent agility and ability to change direction in pivot or quick-chop turns. Lots of pop if you want to load its flex and launch off anything. Always lands back down with a confident whump and grip, never rebounds off the surface unless you want it to. I am not a hard-core bump addict, so I will let the bump experts show you how good this ski is by posting results on the podiums. As I understand it, the ski used by the sponsored competitors is the same as you can buy...Hart does not make any special "race room" bump skis. The F17 is the real deal you can buy from their dealers. The F17 makes a great frontside groomed surface weapon as well. Great grip and zip out of nearly any turns you can make. Easy to ski slowly, and only a trace of "narrow waisted" instability at warp 9 GS speeds and pressures. Not so hot in the soft snow...but then again, it's a narrow, quick-pivoting model. Impressive ski model not attempted by the majority of other manufacturers.

Analogies: (this ski is like...)

One of those specialized Top-Chef ginsu knive tools for slaying specific jobs quickly and effectively.

After Skiing These, I Want To...

Watch some pros really use it to its potential. I also want to try the longest 188cm model on some hardpack at speed...I bet the ride is fast and exciting.

Self-Description of Skiing Style, Ability, Experience, Preferences:

Expert groomed-surface carver, "old-style" race inspired, "foot steerer" with fairly sensitive edging feel. Loves to hold long arcs with lots of pressure on the downhill ski (you know the type), but also loves the feel of both skis on-edge leaving tiny railroad track edge tracks. Not an instructor, but 10 year coach for youth race team in New England (bulletproof is the norm).


More reviews will be posted at:
http://www.exoticskis.com/forum/defa...x?g=posts&t=47
post #2 of 20
Great review I'd have loved a video of the bump performance..
post #3 of 20
Thanks for the review! I can't wait to demo this ski.

Who are their sponsored bump skiers anyway?
post #4 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by bumpfreaq View Post
Thanks for the review! I can't wait to demo this ski.

Who are their sponsored bump skiers anyway?
Patrick Deneen on the U.S. Ski Team.
post #5 of 20
Nice. A couple of 3rds on World Cup and a couple of wins in Nor-Ams and FIS. How long has be been on F-17s?
post #6 of 20
I am 5'11"...205lb...level 8 more or less. Where I ski, barely a day goes by when I am not skiing bumps. I am not great at it but getting better and want to get better even still.

I currently own the Dynastar Contact Limited which are fun in the bumps no question. I am planning on enrolling in a mogul camp. I have been considering adding a Dynastar Course (or other) as a cheater GS type ski but have also been toying with the idea of adding a ski that is truly exceptional in bumps, Dynastar Trouble Makers came to mind, for use at the mogul camp and to specifically practice bump skills.

Along comes Exotic Skis' review of the Hart F17 and I am now thinking I could kill two birds with one stone. A long radius cheater GS on the ice and hard-pack combined with a killer bump ski...or is that wishful thinking? If I were to go with Hart...what length would offer the best combination of stability on the groomed and agility in bumps? I don't want to buy a super narrow very straight bump specific ski...but any other ideas?
post #7 of 20
Thread Starter 
Hi Allen,

Don't get the impression the F-17 is a GS Cheater ski... (the Phoenix does that!)...it does have a bit of nervousness at speed (see review). The F17 is indeed a mogul ski...not a GS ski...but can be a good hardpack fun toy...not radically nervous at speed...but no GS ski by any means....Demo them first to see what they are like...I would hate to give you the wrong impression!..

I liked the F17....just make sure it does what you need before paying the $$$ for a pair...demo, demo, demo !
post #8 of 20
Thanks for the response. I don't want to give you the wrong impression of what i would want from the F17 either. The ski will never be used in gates...more like higher speed, long radius, sweeping turns on hard to icy groomed runs, often steep...maximum speed if I had to put a number to it...maybe 35 to 40 mph. If they are stable at those speeds and have the grip for what are standard eastern hardpack and ice then they might be the perfect solution. Living in Quebec the chances of a demo is nil.
post #9 of 20
Thread Starter 
Hmmmm...I would probably pick a different ski if you wanted 35-40 mph speeds on hardpack. The F17 is just a tad to twitchy at those speeds for my taste...not a hazard...just more hyper than you might want. No lack of grip, being only 66.6mm underfoot, and definitely strong enough...it just isn't dampened for high-speed adventure control like some other models.....there are other skis for that...The only way I would ski the F17 at GS-like speeds would be in a length of 185cm or even the 188cm...but that might cramp your style in the bumps.

Maybe Philpug can point you toward some F17 demos in the East...I know there might be some floating around Vermont recently...

Anyway..my 2 cents....It would be a good narrow-waisted Eastern ski...just not a GS ski...she's a thoroughbred mogul board...but fun.
post #10 of 20
I will be the first to say that big GS turns aren't really in the DNA of a mogul ski. I will say that the dims of the F17 will allow you to take it in more places on the mountain than most straight on mogul skis, but there is also a speed limit with the ski. If you want a ski that is >70% mogul ski but something that you can still carve an arc with, the F17 is worth a try but if you are in the bumps <50% of the time, look else where.
post #11 of 20


Here is the F17 in its own preferred terrain...moguls. Moguls on Sel's Choice at Okemo.
post #12 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

If I get the F17, will I be able to do moguls better?
Phil did bring them to Stowe. I would say that the F17 'could' make it possible to ski moguls better. It's quite a ski.

I skied them first on groomers. With the big radius, the ski felt real solid, much to my surprise. I was expecting a squirl. I was skiing fast, carved (I think) turns having been on my Top Fuels the run prior.This ski could easily keep up.

In the bumps they were softer than what I am used to. Softer in the tip yet solid under foot. My line tightend and I skied much closer to the zipper line while still doing turns and keeping the tips on the snow. It's the first time that I ever skied a true bump ski and it definitely made a difference.

From there, we ducked into the woods. The snow was maybe 2 or 3" of melted powder on a nice, deep, firm base. These skied floated and turned in this almost sloppy snow and they performed. It was my first run on them and the ski could arc or turn short as needed in steep untracked woods. I didn't pay attention to anything other that how they skied, once I was on them. But I did have expectations: would it be a noodle or offer only one good turn. This is a narrow ski and it's range of performance is broad. This surpised me as did it power. It would have been nice to take a run down Goat on them, the lines were perfect today.

Thanks Phil, but I will need to try them again, hopefully on Goat.
post #13 of 20
Curious as to what lengths you guys skied and your corresponding weight. I am 5'10" about 200 Lb. thinking about buying these skis for east coast use when I am skiing runs that are a mix of smooth hard snow (30-40%) and tight bumps (60-70%) depending on pitch and how long ago since the groomer passed. What length would you suggest?
post #14 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by allan o'neil View Post
Curious as to what lengths you guys skied and your corresponding weight. I am 5'10" about 200 Lb. thinking about buying these skis for east coast use when I am skiing runs that are a mix of smooth hard snow (30-40%) and tight bumps (60-70%) depending on pitch and how long ago since the groomer passed. What length would you suggest?
You and I are about the same size. I have been skiing the 180 (and thats what Paul skied), I would say a 175 would be ideal for your (and my) size.
post #15 of 20
I''m not qualified to say but it skied nicely at 180 for me and my size. It could easily become to short as a bump ski.
post #16 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExoticSkis View Post
Hart F17 Mogul Ski
One of the rare "real" mogul skis designed to compete in the modern bump contests. Already winning competitions in 2008. Serious pivoting agility with as much pop off bumps and stability when slammed back down as you might want. Excellent grip underfoot and confident dampening control. Balanced swing weight and looks like a very durable construction. . .

Technical Ski Data
:

Dual layer wood core, titanal & fiberglass sandwich construction.
All the reviews on race/cross carver skis with metal always have a warning like "there's metal in them so careful in the bump", yet these have metal, and I am sure they are fine.

Has the notion of fearing taking skis with titanal into bumps been overplayed over the years?

Just curious.

Thanks,
Gord
post #17 of 20
Gord,

Hart has had ZERO skis being bent during the testing of these. This included skis skied by U.S. Ski Teamers Patrick Deneen, Michael Morse and Michele Roark.
post #18 of 20
Phil,

Sorry if I came across as casting any doubt on Hart, not my intent. I had no doubt that they are fine, especially with the testing you just mentioned. I was really posing a more general ski construction type question suggesting that the traditional fear of bending skis with metal is too general.

For example, I have a pair of M666's that I skied in bumps for about 7 days in Utah (spring 2007 : unnaturally low snow of Utah, warm whether, therefore hard bumps). As everyone here probably knows, they are not a bump ski and they are fine inspite of the bump skiing, but they are a but they are a wood/dual titanal sandwich ski. I also would not be able to stress them like a competition mogul (or stronger/bigger) skier, and I don't recall ever jamming them into the side of a mogul.

And here is a ski from Hart designated for moguls with metal in them, but in a well constructed ski. So it doesn't seem like metal is necessarily the culprit in a skis vulnerability to getting bent.

I am wondering if wood/titanal/fiberglass sandwich type construction is not vulnerable inspite of the metal as oppose to previous generations of foam/metal/cap type skis or skis with bars or other gizmos?

If my suggestion is true, then does that mean the occasionally recurring ski review line "don't prang them cause there's metal in them" is often not accurate (at least not for a wood/titanal/fiberglass sandwich ski)?

Thoughts?

Gord
post #19 of 20
Gord,

No worries. I really can't speak for other metal laminate skis, all I know is these are bomb proof. The construction is more on like with a race ski than most other manufactures bump skis. The pricing is along that line too though. They are expensive, but well worth it.
post #20 of 20
Any chance the Hart Demo's in the Catskills this winter?
(preferably not Hunter,Windham,or Plattekill)
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