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More than 3* bevel on SL skis?

post #1 of 7
Thread Starter 
For dedicated SL and Ice skis. Any one try 4* or more side edge bevel? How do they ski? (165 Salomon 3V LAB)
post #2 of 7
Max edge bevel used by FIS racers is normally 3 degrees, and 1 degree on the base. If more was better, they would do it.

Keep in mind, the more you bevel, the faster the edge wears, and the faster the sharpness is lost.

Probably better to put in mileage running gates and improving your technique.

Check your boots and your stance with a boot fitter - improvements here can make a big difference. I have my boot soles bevelled to correct my bowlegged condition. A custom footbed also really helped me.
post #3 of 7
I have been tuning at 3/.5 but Ive seen guys running up to 4/flat its all about what feels the best for you.
post #4 of 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by empressdiver View Post
Max edge bevel used by FIS racers is normally 3 degrees, and 1 degree on the base. If more was better, they would do it.

Keep in mind, the more you bevel, the faster the edge wears, and the faster the sharpness is lost.

Probably better to put in mileage running gates and improving your technique.

Check your boots and your stance with a boot fitter - improvements here can make a big difference. I have my boot soles bevelled to correct my bowlegged condition. A custom footbed also really helped me.
Wow, here we go again! empressdiver you & I are like oil & water

Where did you get the info that max side edge angle used is 3 degrees for a FIS racer???

I have been to Regional Junior FIS races where racers were using 4, 5 & 6 degree side angles for slalom. (And please! base bevel is always quoted first) And WC slalom racers use as high as a 6 & 7 degree.

The more you side edge bevel the faster the edge wears (I assume you really mean the quicker the edge dulls) is just not true. Folklore! just not the case!

I have tuned our Race Stock Atomic SL11 to a 1/4 and my Stockli Laser WC slaloms to a 1/4. thye skied absolutly fine. Although it is a little abrupt on softer snow, fabulous edge grip on hard snow!
post #5 of 7
Atomicman, methinks you doth protest too much.

I am giving the OP what are generally accepted limits on base and edge bevel, and the reasons for such limits. Obviously, there are going to be some sponsored racers out there that will experiment with all parts of their equipment, but they are not necessarily suitable guides to be followed when you have to pay for your own equipment.

Clearly, there is a risk with this experimentation. Once you file a ski edge to 4, 5, 6 or 7 degree bevel you mention, there is no going back if you don't like it, and you may have just ruined an expensive pair of skis. My advice to the OP is that, as a developing racer, if you can't get the performance you want from a 3 degree bevel, its probably time to take a good hard look at your racing technique and work on that to get improved performance, rather than focusing on extreme, risky modifications to his skis.

I also have to say that if you increase the base and edge bevel, you are removing more metal and leaving less metal on the steel edge to do its job, and therefore the sharpness will be lost faster, and the edge will be worn faster. This may not matter to a sponsored racer who may use his SL race skis for only about 10 races for the season before he gets two new pair, but for a recreational racer, this will probably result in an unacceptably high rate of wear, since he is using one pair of skis for training, racing, and recreational use. Since you don't accept this basic technical premise, I would suggest you discuss it with a FIS level ski team tech.
post #6 of 7
I don't have time to respond right now except to say that every point you have made in this new post is is incorrect.
post #7 of 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by empressdiver View Post
Atomicman, methinks you doth protest too much.

I am giving the OP what are generally accepted limits on base and edge bevel, and the reasons for such limits. Obviously, there are going to be some sponsored racers out there that will experiment with all parts of their equipment, but they are not necessarily suitable guides to be followed when you have to pay for your own equipment.

Clearly, there is a risk with this experimentation. Once you file a ski edge to 4, 5, 6 or 7 degree bevel you mention, there is no going back if you don't like it, and you may have just ruined an expensive pair of skis. My advice to the OP is that, as a developing racer, if you can't get the performance you want from a 3 degree bevel, its probably time to take a good hard look at your racing technique and work on that to get improved performance, rather than focusing on extreme, risky modifications to his skis.

I also have to say that if you increase the base and edge bevel, you are removing more metal and leaving less metal on the steel edge to do its job, and therefore the sharpness will be lost faster, and the edge will be worn faster. This may not matter to a sponsored racer who may use his SL race skis for only about 10 races for the season before he gets two new pair, but for a recreational racer, this will probably result in an unacceptably high rate of wear, since he is using one pair of skis for training, racing, and recreational use. Since you don't accept this basic technical premise, I would suggest you discuss it with a FIS level ski team tech.
OK,

I don't protesteth too much, unfortunately you keep posting inaccurate information.


Obviously, there are going to be some sponsored racers out there that will experiment with all parts of their equipment, but they are not necessarily suitable guides to be followed when you have to pay for your own equipment.

Very few racers get all there gear completly paid for. But that does not matter because due to a number of issues, the majority of junior racers get new skis every year sponsored or not because:

1. New and Improved models
2. New rules
3. they have grown
4. they have beat the hell out of their gear since they ski the equilavent of 8- 10 seasons of a rec skier in 1 year. they Are constantly tuning and if they have racers and matching training skis in SL & Gs, their trainers take even more of a beating (particularly in Slalom) which is what we were talking about. And even if their race skis are in OK shape if you are going to play the racer/trainer game the skis need to be identical. So if there trainers are toast their will be a new ski in the quiver somehow.

Now all the above is if I agreed with you that going to a 4 or 5 degree side edge was nearly as damaging and radical as you claim it is, which it just is not. And by the way I said WORLD CUP racer use as high as a 6 or 7. I didn't suggest that the OP use a 6 or 7.

You are also incorrect that you cannot go from a 7 degree to a one degree! You absolutly can. In fact my 1st step on my side edge after my skis have been ground is to use a 7 degree side edge guide with a short panser file. My finished edge angle is a 2 degree on my Monster 88 and a 3 on all other skis. So, once more, you can change your side edge angle up or down at will with no damage whatsoever to the ski. It is your base edge that you can only increase. To decrease your base edge angle you must have your skis stoneground .

And going from a 3 to a 5 degree side edge and then back to a three, just does not take off that much metal. But as I stated above few Junior Racers use a ski more then 1 season anyone except for SG & Dh's and there just are not as many speed events in the Junior ranks as SL & GS.

This notion that you are going to ruin your skis and that a a 4 or 5 degree is some incredibly extreme damaging edge angle is just not true!

And once again I have found and so have many extremely knowledgeable credible tuners, and posters here that agree there is absolutly no difference in how long an edge stays sharp between a 1 & 3 degree or a 3 and a 5 degree. Also, racers tend to sharpen their skis for every training day and obviosly for race day, so wehwhat difference does that make anyway even if what you say is true, whcih it is not.

No racers I know use their race skis(trainers or racers to freeski) they all have fat skis, unless they take a couple of runs outside the course just to work on technique.

So in conclusion, once again, we just are going to have to agree to disagree, since we never agree on anything.

I will say though an Epic member did voluntarily PM me wondering where the heck you come up with this info in your posts!

This post is meant with all due respect, but i just can't let a bunch of inaccuracies stand as fact!
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