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Another video offering for MA

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 
Intermediate terrain, hard packed decently fast conditions. Hope the video isn't too bad for analysis. I put a slow-mo replay after each clip. A few things I can think of to work on:
1. less A-framing
2. shoulders/body face more towards fall-line and less square
3. more use of pole plants
4. possibly more countering
5. I never thought of myself as having much too much tip lead, but in the videos, I can see at a few points that my inside boot definitely has a lot less forward pressure than the outside boot. But I also see the same thing in pics of WC skiers on Ron Lemaster's site...though maybe to a lesser extent, so I don't know if I need to work on pulling that inside ski back more or not.

In the first clip, I made a couple awkward short turns traversing the hill in an attempt to get closer to the camera, so please don't pay too much attention to those. Let the ego deflation begin! :

post #2 of 18
About 2:15 it looks like your weight is behind your feet. I'm not sure if it's camera angle or for real. 2:37---it's real. Try the various methods to get your weight over the arches of your feet, and on your toes for sharper turns. Pulling the inside foot back, way back, continuous pull-back, is a big help.

Some folks promote the hunched back position, but I don't know why. More angle in the hips and a straight back is more comfortable for me and gets me better angles of the skis on the snowas well.

I'd ski with a narrower stance. Clinic leaders tell me to widen my stance for more stability, although I'm not unstable, and then they ski with just an inch or two showing between their legs. Also try making the inside foot lighter on the snow. To reduce the A-frame, make little or no effort to edge the outside ski. Get the edging from the angulation of the lower body.

Which way to face...or more accurately, which way to turn the hips. Try turning the hips to somewhat parallel with the skis...inside hip pulled forward very early in the turn, even before the fall line. You can face about the same direction. Inside foot pulled back and inside hip pushed forward...sounds contradictory but works very well. The tighter the turns the more downhill you want to face, but get the hips twisted toward the outside of the turn very early.
post #3 of 18
Thread Starter 
I think the hunched position you see might be a deception due to the camelbak I have on. I feel like I generally ski with a fairly straight back, but the camelbak makes it look curved and hunched over in the videos.

I'm a bit surprised you think my weight is too far back at 2:37. I'm seeing that my chin is in-line with my inside knee and in front of outside knee. My bellybutton is over the toes of my outside foot. Perhaps this is still not enough forward?

I actually used to ski with a narrower stance, but I started doing some nastar this year and was given the advice to ride a wider, shoulder width stance for better stability and potential for more angulation and higher edge angles.

Interesting idea on the A-framing. I've always tried to conciously push my inside knee towards the inside of the turn, but I'll give your tip a shot.
post #4 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortato View Post

I'm a bit surprised you think my weight is too far back at 2:37. I'm seeing that my chin is in-line with my inside knee and in front of outside knee. My bellybutton is over the toes of my outside foot.
If your chin is inline with your inside knee, Odds are everything between your chin and knee (butt, pelvis, torso, shoulders etc), is behind that point. Then consider that as it is the end of your turn, you are probably fairly flexed at the knee since you have not yet "exteneded" all your joints. This puts most of your weight behind your feet.

Looking at the video, It appears you have not flexed the boots much so your shins are fairly upright this does put the bulk of your weight behind your feet.

DC
post #5 of 18
if you were standing up more (fully extended) at that point in time with your bellybutton over your toes, it would be different but in that very "compressed" position, your hips are way behind your feet.

DC
post #6 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dchan View Post
If your chin is inline with your inside knee, Odds are everything between your chin and knee (butt, pelvis, torso, shoulders etc), is behind that point. Then consider that as it is the end of your turn, you are probably fairly flexed at the knee since you have not yet "exteneded" all your joints. This puts most of your weight behind your feet.

DC
I see what you're saying, but we should take a closer look at my outside knee, since my outside leg is where the majority of the weight is. If my chin and shoulders are in front of my outside knee, that puts my arms, head, shoulders and knees in front of my toes, my torso and thighs above the ball of my feet, and my butt and lower back above the heel. Not sure exactly how all that adds up, but seems fairly equal.

I'd like to use this image: http://www.ronlemaster.com/images/20...2006-sl-1.html
we can see his chin is actually behind his inside knee, but ahead of his outside knee. Obviously he's got a little more boot flex than me too, so perhaps that's the problem.

2:37 is also a long second...at the beginning, I'm more at the fall line and towards the end of that second, I'm finishing the turn. I am moving my weight back as I finish the turn. I read somewhere on these forums that what really should be happening is forward pressure to initiate the turn, balanced at fall line (or apex of turn), and pressure on the tails at the end of the turn. This makes sense and can be seen in the pictures on ron's website. Perhaps I could still have my weight forward, but pressure my tails, rather than using weight in the back to do it?

Perhaps we should look at 3:13-3:14...where it seems a bit more clear what I'm doing. At my transition, I'm definitely back, then intiating the turn, I attempt to drive my weight forward. At 3:14 - apex of turn, I see that my belly button is right in-line with the ball of my outside foot. My chin is again in-line with inside knee and in front of outside knee. This seems like at least a fairly neutral position to me.

I'm not trying to blow off what you're telling me...just trying to understand. My perceptions may all be off. Thanks!
post #7 of 18
On the image you chose as the skier passes the gate, his weight is squarely over the tail of the ski. That's clear from what the ski is doing.

At 2:37 you are already back. At 2:38 you are waaaaay too far back, regardless of the intent. I'd forget about working the ski in this manner, it will only confuse the issue. Which is all about getting centered.

There are a couple ways to go about it, the industrial strength way is to ski in a wedge the whole day. Your hips will probably be screaming, and the response to taht will be to move the weight forwards and balance over your feet, with the shins on the tongues. You'll have a fair bit of pressure on the boot tongue as you do this.

Once you are centered, return to skiing parallel, but keep the forward stance. Feedback is shin on tongue and "open hips".

To remain centered as you extend into each turn, extend in the direction your boot cuffs are pointing. You should find that the hip joint gets opened (right now, the hip is closed and static). This will let your body keep up to the skis. You should only feel a bit of tongue pressure at initiation.

Mantra: "Open the hip".

I'll be a new sensation.

Hope this helps.
post #8 of 18
One problem with using the LeMaster images is most of these guys want to ski on their tails at the end of each turn. That's where they get some of their acceleration. Most of them also have thighs the size of tree trunks and can press several hundred pounds of weight with their legs. Something most of us mortals can not do. The other thing is to see just how fast they get their body and COM across the skis and back in front to engage the tips. If you move just milliseconds forward in time with them, you will see them really bending their boots and the hands are driving way in front of their bodies moving their COM way more forward than most of us.

What you consider equal really is not. Try standing in your boots on a hard flat surface at about the same position crouched as you are in that image. Knees just barely forward of your toes and your butt out about where the lever of the binding (to release). You will most likely be struggling to stay upright or feel almost like you are about to fall over backwards.
post #9 of 18
here's another way to take a look at how much of your body is in front or in back. At any given time, stop the video. Draw a line at a right angle to the skis from just under the ball of the foot (say 2/3rds towards the front of the boot) towards the top of the head.

Then tell us where you think your weight is.
post #10 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE View Post
Once you are centered, return to skiing parallel, but keep the forward stance. Feedback is shin on tongue and "open hips".

To remain centered as you extend into each turn, extend in the direction your boot cuffs are pointing. You should find that the hip joint gets opened (right now, the hip is closed and static). This will let your body keep up to the skis. You should only feel a bit of tongue pressure at initiation.

Mantra: "Open the hip".
When you say open the hip, do you mean move the inside of my hips forwards and towards the outside of the turn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dchan View Post
here's another way to take a look at how much of your body is in front or in back. At any given time, stop the video. Draw a line at a right angle to the skis from just under the ball of the foot (say 2/3rds towards the front of the boot) towards the top of the head.

Then tell us where you think your weight is.
Please look at attached pictures.

First picture is a shot from 2:37. You guys are correct ofcourse, looks like I am backseating it here.
Second picture is a shot from 3:14. I seem to be much better here?
525x525px-LL-vbattach2838.jpg
post #11 of 18
Put that line at the ball of the foot on 3:14 and while it is better, you are still way back.

Given your stance there, I would still defy you to stand in your boots on a flat surface with that much crouch and very little flex in the boot and not end up on your butt.

Open the hip and the knees to get your COM forward more.

DC
post #12 of 18
You close the hip when you sit. You open the hip completely when you stand at attention. It is impossible to open the hip and remain in the backseat.

I certainly do not mean move the hips to the outside of the turn. The same mantra applies if you were to make wedge turns.

What I'm, doing is trying to give you the minimal amount of information.

If I were to say more about how I would prefer to see you ski, it would become far too confusing. I would stick to one thing at a time. There is a lot to explore in the directive to "open the hip" -- timing, duration, intensity, rate of opening.......these are things that cannot be discussed effectively in a forum. On hill, with examples, yes, but not here....

You have a lot of good things going on, I'd just like to see them happen from a balanced and centered stance.


I urge you to explore the suggestion of "opening the hip".
post #13 of 18
Thread Starter 
Here's another still of the 3:14 shot with more lines...sorry for such small images, but my limit is pretty small. I should find a place to host images. I tried my best to pinpoint where everything was when the image was still big and mark those spots with the bright lines.

The green lines show where my boot toe and heel are on the outside foot. I drew the vertical red-line roughly 2/3-3/4 of the way from the heel. The light blue line shows the flex of my outside boot and purple line is the flex of my inside boot.

Looking at this, though I'm sure there's many things I can do better, I still maintain that my weight is fairly neutral...maybe slightly back, but not as bad as you say.

I'm still having trouble understanding the "open hips" statement. If it's closed when I sit and open when I stand, doesn't that just mean how much my waist is bending? If I'm standing straight up in my skis with open hips, couldn't I just lean back slighlty and end up with my weight on my heels? Sorry for my ignorance, I'm just having a hard time picturing what you're trying to tell me.

Thanks!
525x525px-LL-vbattach2841.jpg
post #14 of 18
No, your waist is above the hips. You can hold a ski pole in closed hips. You can bow (women curtsy, that sort of bow...) without closing the hips.

As you thrust the pelvis forwards, you open the hips.

3:14 is the only time in the turn you are like that. The rest of the time, you are behind. It is not representative of your balance at all times.
post #15 of 18
Thread Starter 
Ok I think I know what you're getting at now.

As for the weight issue, please don't take my stubborness personally. I trust you guys, but for me to fix it, I need to be convinced and see it from your point of view.

I'll focus on the hips thing next time I'm out and hopefully that will help get me more forward. You mention thrusting your pelvis forward to open up the hips. I'm thinking this sort of motion will cause me to pull back my feet, open up the knees, and straighten my back. All which should add up to building a better stance. Correct?

Thanks for all the help so far!
post #16 of 18
Yes!

Good luck.
post #17 of 18
Thread Starter 
I just went out last weekend and focused on keep my hips open/forward and I must say, "wow!" I don't know how I got along without doing this before...I guess that's the problem with being self taught.

Anyways, I'm making quick fast turns much tighter and cleaner than before, my GS turns are better, and I even got a lot better at absorbing bumps when doing moguls. I'm able to get my SL turns to pop at the end of every turn whereas before, I only did it once in awhile and I couldn't figure out how to reproduce it.

Thanks a bunch!
post #18 of 18
Thanks for reporting back.

I'm very happy to hear about your results!
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