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Hardpack ski

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
5'9 160lbs level 6-7..Decent skier, not real fast
I have my Mythics in 172 for powder to hardpack, and enjoy them, But as always I am looking for something new. I am thinking about getting a hardpack,mogul, groomer ski..to replace my 164 metron 10's. Something in the mid 170 range..
We will be going to Telluride next month, and I am going to demo some skis.

My question to everyone, is have you ever been looking for what I am looking for, and you found the ONE..The ski that is right up your alley. If so, which was it, and what do you recommend..Some of the ones I will be looking at..Votes for, or any other recommends, appreciated..

Rossi B78
Head Im 78..IM 82
Dynastar 8000
Dynastar contact?
Apache recon
Watea 78-84


Thanks

Lee
post #2 of 20
Volkl Tigershark 10 Foot in 168 or 175. Go to Taos Ski & Boot and demo it. Also, the K2 Apache Crossfire. Some of the skis you mention are not for HARDPACK conditions.
post #3 of 20
Haha, Lee you are gonna end up with a 10-ski quiver! Did you demo the Stocklis?

Drive up to Pajarito (Los Alamos) this Sunday, it's a demo day and Dynastar, K2, Volkl, and Salomon will be out there. I will be demoing some hardpack skis too, will let you know how it went.

From previous experience, the Volk AC30 and AC40 are in theory 50/50 skis but work very well on groomers. I think the AC40 is in the 84mm underfoot range and the AC30 in the high 70s. I want to try the tigershark and the Dynastar Contact and Legend 8000.
post #4 of 20
Something for hardpack AND bumps? hmm.. Go thin?
post #5 of 20
Thread Starter 
More than likely, I'll have more skis than tires You never know when you might have a blowout on the hill...I can never leave well enough alone.. I will try the stocklis if I get the chance, but from what I have heard, they are not very forgiving..Everyone that owns them loves em though.. I would love to go up to a demo day, but it never seems to fall on a day when I can go..Definitely let me know what you like, when you go..In reality, I am trying to find a ski, that will help me keep up with you in the bumps .. I came close to buying those recons on SAC a minute a go, and don't know what I am going to do when the 8000's come up..

I will not rest...I will not rest....I will not rest

Lee
post #6 of 20
Add to this confusion the definition of "hardpack" you are using: are you talking western style or eastern style?

If you're talking eastern, pretty much all K2s are a tough sell to track well on boilerplate ice (though the Crossfire is their best offering right now in that area). You'd get fine performance on both coasts with Völkl Tigersharks or AC30/AC40, Head Supershape (either the standard or the Magnum), Fischer Progressor or SC, or various models from Stöckli, Hart, Dynastar (the Contact Limited is not that great in moguls unless you go short), Atomic, etc. Lots of choices.

The Head i.M 78 is an interesting one. It's quite good in moguls, and does quite well on the hard stuff (though not as well as the Supershapes, given the wider waist - though you can compensate for this with some lifts under the bindings). I'd look closely at this one, and at the Elan Magfires, which have similarly universal behavior characteristics.
post #7 of 20
Thread Starter 
Western..Most def..

Thanks
post #8 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by songfta View Post
Add to this confusion the definition of "hardpack" you are using: are you talking western style or eastern style?

If you're talking eastern, pretty much all K2s are a tough sell to track well on boilerplate ice (though the Crossfire is their best offering right now in that area). You'd get fine performance on both coasts with Völkl Tigersharks or AC30/AC40, Head Supershape (either the standard or the Magnum), Fischer Progressor or SC, or various models from Stöckli, Hart, Dynastar (the Contact Limited is not that great in moguls unless you go short), Atomic, etc. Lots of choices.

The Head i.M 78 is an interesting one. It's quite good in moguls, and does quite well on the hard stuff (though not as well as the Supershapes, given the wider waist - though you can compensate for this with some lifts under the bindings). I'd look closely at this one, and at the Elan Magfires, which have similarly universal behavior characteristics.
Head Supershape Speed in a 177cm. Retune it to 1/3. Superb ski for hardpack and with a 16.6M radius and fairly soft longitudinal flex does fine in the bumps. In fact I find it a very good all around ski 113-67-99 profile. With Liquidmetal and Inntelligence Technology. It really is fantastic. Retuning it properly transforms this ski into a great performer. Factory tune has too much base bevel and not enough side bevel.

I would think the Tigersharks are way too stiff for the bumps. You're gonna bend 'em. (Volkl's are notorius for bending, I skied on them for 25 years)
post #9 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
Head Supershape Speed in a 177cm. Retune it to 1/3. Superb ski for hardpack and with a 16.6M radius and fairly soft longitudinal flex does fine in the bumps.
I'd opt for the SS Magnum or plain 'ol SS over the speed, given the intended use. The SS Speed (a.k.a. the i.GS in a past life) is a bit too much of a long-turn bomber to be really confidence inspiring in the bumps. With a level 8 or 9 pilot, no sweat - but with a level 6 or 7, I'd go with the regular SS (with the proper tune, naturally). It's a little softer, a little quicker with the turns - more upside, I think. Look for a 170 or 175 in this ski.

If doing fewer moguls, the SS Magnum would be the bee's knees, as it requires a bit more pilot skill in the bumps (longer sidecut, etc.).

Again, the i.M78 would be an excellent choice, and would have the benefit of being able to go off-piste without much of a compromise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman
I would think the Tigersharks are way too stiff for the bumps. You're gonna bend 'em. (Volkl's are notorius for bending, I skied on them for 25 years)
Indeed - and that's a problem I had with Atomics for years (used to be sponsored by them, and one year went through 4 pair of race stock GS skis - yikes!). Lots of metal - which the Tigersharks have - can make 'em bend-prone if you're not careful (especially if you work the tip of the ski a lot).
post #10 of 20
I hear ya, except that 16.6 meter radius in a 177 is hardly a long turn bomber! When the iGs was developed Race GS ski were minimum 21M and are now 24M

I think it is a great combo SL/GS turner. almost like a GS ski that turns like a SL ski. But again the tune is crucial.
post #11 of 20
Wateas are wonderful skis for soft snow, but they are *NOT* hardpack skis, not even close. Look at the RX Heat and Fire models for more of a hardpack bias in Fischer's line.
post #12 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeX View Post
5'9 160lbs level 6-7..Decent skier, not real fast
I have my Mythics in 172 for powder to hardpack, and enjoy them, But as always I am looking for something new. I am thinking about getting a hardpack,mogul, groomer ski..to replace my 164 metron 10's. Something in the mid 170 range..
We will be going to Telluride next month, and I am going to demo some skis.

My question to everyone, is have you ever been looking for what I am looking for, and you found the ONE..The ski that is right up your alley. If so, which was it
, and what do you recommend..Some of the ones I will be looking at..Votes for, or any other recommends, appreciated..

Rossi B78
Head Im 78..IM 82
Dynastar 8000
Dynastar contact?
Apache recon
Watea 78-84


Thanks

Lee
Has a light just gone off inside your head when skiing the_______ski
post #13 of 20
Going by experience, for hardpack with a good pilot or with me as a pilot I would be happy with Fischer WC SC or RC, Atomic SX11 or 12, Head SS speed, maybe RX8 if slower speeds are also called for. For lesser skilled pilots or more time in bumps at slower speeds RX8 or regular Super shape. Edit to add Rossi VS oversize and Salomon Equipe to RX8 and Supershape.

For "western Hardpack", I'm afraid I haven't any recent experience, but I've heard good things about the Sharks and some Nordicas.
post #14 of 20
For all-around versatility in what you want to do:

"not real fast... a hardpack,mogul, groomer ski... to replace my 164 metron 10's"

these are the ones where lights went off in the 'ol cranium:

- Head Supershape
- Fischer RX Fire 8
- Head i.M78

The regular Supershape and the Fischer RX8 are really the cream of the crop for what you seek: they have tons of versatility and upside, and work well at almost any speed.
post #15 of 20
you can't go wrong with these Volkl 5 Stars 168 cm with bindings all for less than $500
post #16 of 20
NO NORDICAS SUGGESTED YET?!

I used to swear by Volkl's hardpack performance. Then I got on a nordy.

Since you're demoing, check them out.

Stay away from any ski with metal construction though if you want to use it in the bumps. You'll permanently bend them beyond warranty. Metal provides the dampness and chatterless arcing that you want in your hardpack ski, but your mogul requests are really going to diminish hardpack performance.

Check out Nordica's non-metal versions, they replace the metal in many of their skis with carbon. For starters, see- Hot Rod Nitrous- http://www.nordica.com/dynamic/ski.p...dL=1&restart=1& (there are many other nordies that have replaced the metal with carbon outside of just the Hot Rod line, btw.)
post #17 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by songfta View Post
If you're talking eastern, pretty much all K2s are a tough sell to track well on boilerplate ice (though the Crossfire is their best offering right now in that area).
They work fine. I like the Crossfire and always have, like the Recon and always have. Anything K2 builds and calls metal laminate or TNC is good. I skied a very hard evening on the updated Crossfire early this season in the East...plenty of grip for southwestern hard.

I'll just throw something out there that hasn't been mentioned:

http://www.blizzard-ski.com/goto/en/...tain/cmx-11-iq

or with metal:

http://www.blizzard-ski.com/goto/en/...ain/cmx-pro-iq

These have some more shape than other stuff Lee mentioned. I'd even say ski these in the 166 length. Keep the Metrons around. Really get comfortable owning and laying over a ski like this, and then bring that back to the slightly wider stuff with either more or less shape...Metrons on one end, other skis you are looking at on the other end
post #18 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeX View Post
Has a light just gone off inside your head when skiing the_______ski
Dynastar Contact Limiteds. Stable at high speed, but still responsive at low speed, and even I can carve them. I have a pair of these en route from Dawg.

Head Supershape Magnums were fun at high speed on the hard stuff, but I wasn't impressed with their low-speed performance or in softer snow. If you want something just for hard conditions/firm groomers, try these (or other Supershapes).

I liked the Head im78 Monsters in softer conditions (especially at speed), but they were overly skittish for me on hardpack/ice. YMMV; I read several reviews that said they were great on ice, so maybe it's just me. If you rarely have to deal with really icy conditions, and get powder at times, these would be great all-around skis.

This is Eastern conditions, and I'm probably a level 6 or so. I wanted to demo the K2 Crossfires but had a lot of trouble finding them.
post #19 of 20
Thread Starter 
After seeing you rock on Blizzards Garrett, I might take you up on those.
I think I'm getting a subliminal message on the Metrons Garrett..Have you seen me ski or something ..

The Fischer RX 8, and supershape keep comimg up..added to the list.

I too have heard great things about the recon, and contacts..added

I did see a lot of Nordicas at Taos..added to the list

Thanks, and keep em coming..I'll have a whole week to try these out..

Lee
post #20 of 20
Lee, clean you PM box, can't send PMs to you now.
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