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Significant Discomfort Throughout 20 yrs of Skiing

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
51y.0. male, 5'7" 170#'s, advanced skiier (avg 30d/yr). Fair amount of ankle pronation (L), more pronounced degree of ankle pronation (R). Ski w/ well made custom orthotics.

Boots have always been "blown -out" to accomadate bilateral pronation.
First boot -Rossi Course (cut to soften) 26.0
2nd boot- Salomon X-Wave 8 (25.5)
Current - Salomon X-Wave 9(25.5)

Always plaqued by medial ankle pain (and surrounding tissue areas), as long as I can remember constant trips to bootfitter, continually trying to pad areas with "doughnuts" myself.

Constant struggle to adjust instep buckle either too tight or too loose to obtain desired very firm ankle area feel... a bit too tight and damage already done ie brused ankles will remain for sometime.

Currently the bruising seems to be over the talus region,just fore of medial mallelous, but also occurs regionally i.e. surrounding medial ankles.

As I begin to fashion and form various density foam materials to obtain relief- I remembered yeas ago up at Whistler purchasing "Intuition" heat moldable foam liners (dont recall if they helped at all)..would it be worth a shot to try these in my current Salomon X-Wave 9's? They are from many years ago..do they retain there inital moding shape? Do they need to be remodeled to fit the different shell?

Any or all input would be greatly appreciated as with aging hips,knees, and spine- painful boots are about the last thing I want to be focusing on.
post #2 of 11
Welcome to Epic Ski Bootfitters Forum!

As a "seasoned" or should I say "tenderized" skier, your experience here should be a fulfilling one. Ask lots of questions, make friends, and enjoy the ride!

Obviously, you need to see a recommended bootfitter to assess and solve your fit issues. That said, I assume that you have a flexible ankle (STJ & MTJ) which puts you into an overly pronatory aspect. Did you feel the prior punching @ the sore spot sacrificed boot feel for comfort?

Quote:
Currently the bruising seems to be over the talus region,just fore of medial mallelous, but also occurs regionally i.e. surrounding medial ankles.
Is the area that is sore over the anterior tibialis tendon? This can be identified by flexing your ankle. (dorsilflexion of foot) The tendon will be prominent. If this area is sore, there are a number of solutions. These include:

1) lowering heel
2) re contouring tongue
3) re contouring shell @ tongue
4) lowering footbed/orthotic
5) grind heel of shell to move foot/liner back

I feel that stretching the ankle can often lead to too much pronatory room and lead to a loss of power. I'd rather work the liner and grind the shell to accommodate pronatory issues. Last, the footbed may need more balancing /posting to control excess motion.

Quote:
As I begin to fashion and form various density foam materials to obtain relief- I remembered yeas ago up at Whistler purchasing "Intuition" heat moldable foam liners (dont recall if they helped at all)..would it be worth a shot to try these in my current Salomon X-Wave 9's? They are from many years ago..do they retain there inital moding shape? Do they need to be remodeled to fit the different shell?
The "Intuition" liners can be remolded. If they are very old, the nylon may become separated from the internal EVA foam and droop when they are heated and cooled. If the liners were in a different boot, they should be molded for the most recent boot.
post #3 of 11
Skiume, welcome to the nuthouse

i think Billy sums that up pretty well, one additional thought.... is there a lot of excess volume in the boot? are you overtightening to try and take this up which could be exserting pressure on the area where you are suffering......

i think it is time to find a recomended fitter and have a fresh set of eyes look at this one

good luck
post #4 of 11
Thread Starter 
Thanks to Cantman and CEM for welcome and speedy responses.

Did you feel the prior punching @ the sore spot sacrificed boot feel for comfort?
Yes- at times it feels as if the left boot may be "overly punched"

Is the area that is sore over the anterior tibialis tendon?

No- not over the tendon- more just lateral and posterior to it and slightly lower towards the plantar surface(extending an index finger between front of medial mallelous and the path of ant tib tendon - tip of finger goes right to spot).

New beds were just made by a highly touted (on this board- prefer not to mention names) which he claimed was the cause ( an improperly made inital one- cost me another 200 and solved nothing).

Slight heel lifts (ramps) added to inner board both sides.

To CEM's point - No- no extra volume, a very good "shell sizing", only possible bit of extra vol possibly at point of (R) punch; if in fact it is too severe.

Can I expect to acheive any better results w/ the remolded "Intuition" liners than w/ my current stock Salomon liners which were "heat molded" at the beginning??? ie am I better off trying to acheive satisfaction w/ which liner?

Last attempt by my fitter was to apply "C" pads both medially and laterally to R&L boot- to attempt to give greater ankle hold- I did not like the feel of the lat'l ones at all and removed them; next he thought about having me foamed in ($500)- I am not going that way - cost prohibative.

Lastly he had thoughts of carving up the outermost layer of my liners to give me greater ankle hold (the medial seam of the R liner has already been cut-away- the thinking being to allow the liner to relax some and fill in areas)......Im reluctant to start really cutting up the liners even more- for if thats not on track there is no recourse.

Looking to the future (new boots) he said the Falcon ran more narrow (Im fairly narrow "C") biut this will probabbly present even greater problems accomadating my pronation.
post #5 of 11
skiume,

Have you thought about controlling the pronation a bit better and improving your foot's ability to balance by experimenting with internal canting. Stand barefooted and balance on one foot, notice how much effort it takes you to balance. Notice the activity in the muscles of your foot/ankle. The SBS system could be your answer? Through experimenting with various angled strips under you foot (thick side on medial side) to discover which angle allows you to balance easiest and all the twitching to subside, you can find the optimal angle for you. This is then deducted from whatever angle is present in the bootboard in the boot and placed between your liner and shell. This will support your pronation and pull the medial bones off the inside of the boot and cause less fatigue in your feet from constantly trying to find balance.

Just a thought!
post #6 of 11
Thread Starter 
Bud,
Thanks very much for your consideration to my situation. What does SBS stand for? In years past I used to go with cants placed under the bindings: 2 degrees high side out on L ski to be specific; then one day at the shop...the head fitter and the shop owner had me stand on this high tech color gizmo and conncurred with each other that they saw no cants needed in this situation and subsequently I had them removed from all my sets of skis. I do my best to listen to the pros advice but now its feeling like its gone full circle back to where I used to be.. I will bring up your recommendation to my fitter in Vt (I assume he knows about SBS) or at least will surely know about "internal canting"- i will print up your post just to be sure! Once again- thank you for your consideration.
post #7 of 11
Unfortunately, knowledgeable, skilled, and properly tooled boot fitters are the exception rather than the norm.

There are three basic parameters in the lateral alignment picture that all have independent purposes and all work together to create the desired result.

1) boot shaft alignment, used to create equadistance on either side of the lower leg and the shell.
2) internal canting or boot board angle which affects balance and the relationship of the bottom of the foot to the lower leg. This can be affected also by the footbed or any shimming applied between the foot and the boot board. This is where SBS (Stance Balance System by Eric Ward) places different angled shims inside the boot to optimize one footed balance.
3) external canting which is done either under the boot sole by planing or by placing cant strips under the bindings. This parameter affects where the knee is at edge engagement.

Note it is very possible that a skier may need to be internally canted to one direction while simultaneously needing to be externally canted the opposite direction. As I said they are different but related and both need to be considered in the whole system.

you can learn more about SBS by checking out "thefootfoundation.com"

Be warned this sight emphasizes the SBS method and does not discuss the importance of considering external canting or shaft alignment which are important pieces to the whole solution. Don't be cornered into believing that system negates the need for external canting because it does NOT!

bud
post #8 of 11
Thread Starter 
This is a great avenue for me to explore- thank you Bud.
Can you make any specific recommendations in the Notheast of a fitter or hopefully more than one- who would be knowledgable with the SBS approach?
post #9 of 11
No but check with "Mosh" by PM and he can refer you to any of his dealers.
post #10 of 11
Thread Starter 
Could I expect any significant improvement in "ankle hold" by switching the 3D BUCKLE on a Salomon X-Wave from the center to the rear position or is this variable only geared towards optimal instep comfort?
post #11 of 11
I don't know that the buckle position will make a noticable difference for your needs but it is a simple test.
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