Originally Posted by borntoski683
SkiDude, I don't want to sound like I'm being a PMTS supporter or anything here, but just to clarify; The turns you are probably referring to from Max are based on the BPST technique, which does result in the ski tail smearing on the snow. Call it a pivot or smear or smudge or scarve or whatever you want, but that is what happens. PMTS skiers do not realize they are using anticipation in this move, but they are in fact using a little bit of anticipation, though the mental model taught by the PMTS system is a different mental model that is specifically design to avoid the overuse of too much rotary/pivoting movements.
This is a tired old argument from both sides about what the meaning of the word "pivot" means, or "rotation"...or "active" vs "passive". Clearly there is arc to arc skiing and non arc-to-arc. Clearly the PMTS guys ski plenty of turns that are not arc-to-arc. The mental model they use to achieve it is different and may or may not result in more or less effectiveness than other methods, depending on the situation the skier is in. There are really very few skiers out that that have studied and practiced both PMTS and other methods to enough of a level of competence to be able to comment with any accuracy about the those strengths and weaknesses.
Aren't you guys tired of arguing, arguing, arguing, name calling, pointing fingers, using lawyer tricks to catch people in the words they use, etc, etc, etc... Its so counterproductive. All for the sake of getting the last word.
Great post....couldn't agree more.
To Rob, Nolo, Volklskier, etc.....
Are you serious?
Max501 has established himself on this board as a royal pain in the ass....the only thing he does is...well all the things mentioned above by BtS....thread, after thread, after thread is hijacked and dragged into a debate on what is carving, what is pivoting....etc....it is B%LLSH#T! I understand it Max who was a key driver in creating the "Ask a Pro" forum...ie place on Epic where Max could not derail ski technique threads.
So I have been giving Max a taste of his own medicine....and as predicted he cant cope with it....he constantly asks for others to explain/justify their position....and then pounces on every little mistep in wording...or...understanding...often these misteps are based more on the medium (ie not everyone is the best writter)or a lack of understanding on the part of the poster (lets face it, everyone is knowledgable...but some more then others
)...Max and the PMTS crowd then use that as evidence of the failure of PSIA specifically, and all ski teaching systems beside PMTS generally....talk about a flawed process. Yet when the tables are turned, and Max is asked to explain his position...well all he can do is skirt the issue with "forum debating" tactics....
I like Volkl's suggestion....about a debate between the TOP convential pros...and HH. It would be a blood bath....based on what I read here in regards to PMTS , HH would go down in a ball of flames.
The 3 points I believe HH simply could not answer...would be:
HH asserts that his system is superior becuase it is based on his WC experience. Yet, convential systems, like the CSIA are also derived from the latest in WC learnings...coming directley from top WC coaches and athletes....who unlike HH, were not mediocre competitors some 30 years ago...but they are top contenders TODAY.....
HH asserts that ACTIVE pivoting/rotary (or what ever you want to call it) is not necessary, as it can be done passively. So if this is true, how does one control it with no muscle involvement....it was suggested by other PMTS experts here, that it is managed through fore/aft adjustments...fine...but that forces a direct conection between rotary/pivoting and fore/aft..how then does one overcome the inherrant loss of versatility this creates in variable conditions such as moguls or crud? Convential systems allow for total control of pivoting independent of fore/aft.
PMTS claims to be better more effective way of skiing....yet his best student Max501, who has bought, read, and studied all the books, vidoes, attended enough camps with HH himself, to call HH "his" coach....and trains and practices PMTS principles constantly, with excessive video analysis...for YEARS....yet he still cant carve a turn down a black run.....seems like a weak system to me.
Overall for you PMTS supporters you need to understand these basic facts:
HH is a great skier - but make no mistake, he does not practice what he preaches
HH is very knowledgable about skiing, and ski technique - but knowingly misguides you.
These facts obvisiouly beg the question...why?
Simply put...money. HH is an entrepeneur, and a good one at that. His marketing strategy is to show that his product is different, and thus better then the competition....he has to, it is the only way he can survive.
Convential systems dont need to worry about such things...they have the ability to simply do what is right...the best way for them to compete is to offer the best and latest in technique and instructional theory...from my time as a pro, working with others pros from around the world, I have learned that all systems are very very similiar...the biggest differences relate to the individuals rather then their system...this is not surprising when one understands that all these systems are being driven from the same source...the WC.
So you can believe, as was actually suggested by one poster here, who shall remain nameless...that there is a global conspiracy going on, and that all these convential systems are really a grand lie to spread pivoting world wide...in order to accomplish????....well that last part was never answered.
Or you could believe 1 entrepeneurial ski guy set out to create a ski teaching business, and to achieve that he embarked on a well known, studied, understood marketing strategy known as Differentiation.
That is it kids...if you believe differentiation, congrats on seeing through the marketing BS and exercising some critical thought...if you believe the global conspiracy idea...well, put a fresh peice of tinfoil in your hat, crack another cold one, and enjoy watching your cousin on Jerry Springer.