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bump skiing MA please - Page 2

post #31 of 50
Good stuff on that mogul link above.
Interesting stuff about using the eyes.
I remember reading an interview with Donna Weinbrecht several years ago. She was talking about recovering from an injury and she'd been off snow for quite awhile. The surprising thing was that what she found the hardest in getting back into competive moguls was her eyes/vision. She'd lost (obviously this is very high level ability) the sense of being able to see her line way ahead and maintain that focus and it was taking a lot of work to get it back.
post #32 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushMogulMaster View Post
1) Stance. .....Also, you might consider tightening up your stance a little. It will help you as you start to increase your speed in the bumps.
....
3) Turns. .....You need to aim for the uphill corner of each bump with your tips, and as your tips contact the bump, absorb it. .....
BMM, good stuff. Mind if you clarify exactly what you mean by "tightening up" the stance, and what you mean by "uphill corner"?
post #33 of 50
This Is Awesome.......bump Skiers Are Coming Out Of Hiding......

I'm So Stoked
post #34 of 50
Gooberhead you'd be surprised. So many of us lust after mogul skiing and would gladly ski down one such field.
I like to go fast, watch WC DH GS SG SL skiing, freeride skiing (big mountain)...For the record I don't watch mogul competitions much, but me and my friend have grown up with a mantra...If one can't ski moguls (bumps) at least passably he/she is either
-Not fit enough (if claiming to be a good skier)
-Not a good skier
According to the above I'm both (not fit enough, not a good skier) but if I see a bump run (a very rare event here) I will not resist and try to ski it.
MAJTATO...you need to work on absorption, which is, by definition performed by the body lower half (but this doesn't means that the upper half, esp the abd aren't contributing), in short, as MFO says, work on leg absorption and learn how to "feel" the snow with your feet....
post #35 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by josseph View Post
BMM, good stuff. Mind if you clarify exactly what you mean by "tightening up" the stance, and what you mean by "uphill corner"?
Wow... I apologize for not answering this a couple weeks ago. Not sure how I missed it!

By "tightening up," I simply mean keeping the skis a little closer together. They don't have to be locked together (although that's how I prefer to ski), but probably not more than 3-4" apart at the boot.

Let me quote myself from http://www.mogulskiing.net/technique_guide_8.html

"As World-Cup-style bumpers, we aim for a specific point on the bump. That point is not the top of the mogul, not the middle of the side of the mogul, but just several inches up the front corner/side of the mogul. Since the concept of "corner" is technically non-existent when discussing a round object, perhaps a drawing will help (my technical editor pointed out to me that aiming for the corner of a round mogul is like telling someone to sit in the corner of a round room!)."

Let me throw together a picture. Give me a minute.
post #36 of 50
Okay, here you go.

You're faced with the following (gorgeous) bump field:


You would aim at about these points:




And your line would look something like this (only the first couple turns, cause I'm a rather poor graphic editor):




Make sense?
post #37 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushMogulMaster View Post
Okay, here you go.

You're faced with the following (gorgeous) bump field:
You would aim at about these points:



Make sense?
A jpg is worth a thousand words. Makes perfect sense now, BMM. Thanks!!!

Gorgeous bump field indeed! I also noticed that no one else seemed to have taken that line, as the visible ski marks indicate that most skiers skid and slam into each trough. Another few ski the opposite side of the direct line by rounding each mogul about 1/2 way up. If I stop thinking about it, my habit would be with the latter bunch, taking the opposite side of each bump away from the zipper line and rounding each mogul. This habit is really hard to break.

I would be interested to see how Pierre, Holiday, and others might indicate their preferred lines using this same gorgeous mogul field jpeg.
post #38 of 50
BMM,

that picture is worth a thousand words!!!

if you dont mind, can add your pole plant targets to that jpg!


that would really help me! i think i am pole planting to early...
post #39 of 50
Most people use poles as a crutch while skiing moguls. By jamming the poles into the top of the bump. Not only is this hard on the wrists but it helps to put you into the backseat.

The pole plant should just be a flick of the wrist and a tap below the crest on the downhill side of the bump as you ski by them.
post #40 of 50
Lars,

I agree with that for the line that BMM has demonstrated, but otherwise I respectfully disagree. The type of pole plant you should use in the bumps should depend on your tactics. For example, a blocking pole plant can be very useful in the bumps when you are getting your skis well across the fall line and checking a lot of speed. There are many different ways to ski a bump run. Try doing a slow dog noodle with a flick of the wrist sometime.
post #41 of 50
Right on BMM! That line is also my preference.
post #42 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty View Post
Lars,

I agree with that for the line that BMM has demonstrated, but otherwise I respectfully disagree. The type of pole plant you should use in the bumps should depend on your tactics. For example, a blocking pole plant can be very useful in the bumps when you are getting your skis well across the fall line and checking a lot of speed. There are many different ways to ski a bump run. Try doing a slow dog noodle with a flick of the wrist sometime.
That's ok rustybut for the type of mogul skiing we've been discussing the past few days, a blocking pole plant might be seen as a defensive move.

Had a friend who used to ski bumps with us all the time, he used a blocking pole plant on a steep run. The pole penetrated the snow so far it got stuck and jerked his arm back behind him. The strap kept his hand from coming out and it tore his bicep muscle from the bone. Missed 3 months of work including the rest of the ski season.

Two things learned. He never skied with his straps around his wrist anymore, and his pole plants were very light when he skied moguls.

Herb, what a guy. Died of cancer two years ago. A fellow patroller and a great guy, fair bumper.
post #43 of 50
Rusty,

Just to clarify… I was interested in pole plant location for BMM specific line.

I know from experience that incorrect pole plants can really screw u up in the bumps…

Although I am curious about what your saying about the blocking pole plant… I don’t want to confuse the topic, I’ll ask u about it in another thread or PM. i also don’t want to spark a which way is better mogul discussion.

When you say “slow dog noodle with a flick of the wrist” what is exactly is that… I really need a picture or video to demonstrate….

Moguls skiing usually involves a lot of things… hands, eyes, turn technique… all of which are equally important. pictures are really helpful on breakdown the stuff you guys are talking about.

Also you get about 1000 opinions on how to ski them… I guess the topic is never boring
post #44 of 50
Pole plants are KEY to mogul skiing. They set the tempo for your speed and turns.
post #45 of 50
Nice pic with the line selection in that beautiful field of bumps!

I think the pole plant issue is worthy of discussion. I agree with both Lars and Rusty. A blocking pole plant has its usefulness, but also I feel that for a lot of skiers, their blocking pole plant gets in their way more often than not. Sometimes this is because their pole is too long and sometimes it pure technique.

I feel that my best bump skiing involves a light pole plant, not a blocking one. When I'm doing everything else right, I don't need a blocking pole plant. I do not feel the plant should be taught as a massive blocking pole plant on the top of the bump, which is what I commonly see taught.

Instead of thinking about jamming the tip of the pole into the top of the bump, I like to think about reaching for a spot more on the backside of the bump and not a big forceful jab. Also, make a concerted effort to push the hand forward as you ski past that spot. So you have your hand in a little closer to your body when you plant and as you ski past, move your hand forward. This essentially ELIMINATES or greatly reduces the "blocking" action. It also helps to establish a strong inside arm (see the mogul logic video I posted earlier on this topic).

More often then not, what I see with skiers using blocking pole plants in the bumps is that it holds their upper body back right as they are cresting the bump. Tends to push them into the backseat. Its very hard on the wrists, and basically its only necessary when other skills are not together. I like to use my pole plants more as a timing cue and also a cue to help me keep track of where I'm going with my upper body. It helps me reach in the right directions.

Every great once in a while, a blocking pole plant is used on purpose when I have to make a drastic change like change lines or massively check my speed or something like that. But it should be the exception, not the turn-by-turn rule.

When I'm skiing the bumps at my best, my wrists barely feel anything, because I'm not using blocking pole plants. A few years back I had tendinitis and I was forced to re-think about how I approached skiing the bumps. This led me to a higher level of bump skiing and the realization that blocking pole plants were not the way.
post #46 of 50
Sorry guys,

Lars made a comment that I took out of context. I tried to qualify my remark saying that I agreed with it as long as it was in context while still leaving open the option of discussing different mogul techniques.

Slow dog noodle is described in this post.

I've seen authoratative instruction to pole touch light and pole touch hard; and to touch the pole on the front of the bump, the top of the bump and the back of the bump. It can be quite confusing for the novice reader at home to make sense of all this advice without the explicit qualification that ties the advice to the desired tactical approach to bump skiing.

There are many different ways to ski a bump run.
post #47 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by sk55 View Post
BMM,

that picture is worth a thousand words!!!

if you dont mind, can add your pole plant targets to that jpg!


that would really help me! i think i am pole planting to early...

Cool, glad it helped!

If we're talking WC tech, you're pole plant should be on the downhill side of the mogul. So... I can't really illustrate it from that photo. However, for the sake of this discussion, let's assume you're skiing this line (I didn't illustrate the turns, just the line):




In this line, you're pole plants would be in the following approximate spots (marked by red dots), depending on your turns, and how you hold your poles:




Make sense? It really takes patience to hold back from planting on the uphill side, but it is crucial in zipperline skiing. Pole planting on the front only causes problems. It pulls your arms back behind you, keeps you from pushing them forward, ends up pushing you into the back seat, and can lead to some serious pain if you take a bump wrong (i.e. pole-to-stomach, or simply strain on the wrist).
post #48 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushMogulMaster View Post
It really takes patience to hold back from planting on the uphill side, but it is crucial in zipperline skiing. Pole planting on the front only causes problems. It pulls your arms back behind you, keeps you from pushing them forward, ends up pushing you into the back seat, and can lead to some serious pain if you take a bump wrong (i.e. pole-to-stomach, or simply strain on the wrist).
post #49 of 50
Nice thread guys!! I have been totally skiing the wrong line.


These diagrams should be stickies!!!
post #50 of 50
Thanks BMM. In so many years it never occured to me that when zipperlining the pole plant should occur on the downhill side of the bump.
Proof that I never zipper lined (no need for it by me, after all)...or, sooner or later I'd have realized that.
That's added value to my skiing, if I ever "bump" in a bump field in the right physical conds I'll at least attempt it.
One never cease to learn. And the source for info can arrive at a totally unexpected time.
Thanks again.
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