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Citizen's Arrest - Page 3

post #61 of 84
nolo - I think it is terrible you feel in danger from other skiers on your mountain, especially since you are an instructor. But the issues there seem to be overcrowding and patrollers not able to educate about the safety code. The obvoius answers then seems to be restricting the number of lift tickets sold on any day and employing more patrollers. But this means less money for the ski area, so as long as they can avoid getting sued for not doing all they can for safety, the $US is going to take priority over your safety.

I am not interested in laying blame but rather finding practical solutions. My experience with courtesy patrol was to pass on my experience with staff who lost respect because they were only concerned with speed and not the safety code. And the increased legislation or treating the skiing in the same way as driving will do nothing for safety.

oz - truman ski team?
post #62 of 84

As in the movie The Truman Show i.e. living a perfect world and the inherent dangers of doing so.

post #63 of 84
didn't feel like getting into it, frank. your arguments were beside the point in the first place.

arrogant jackass? i'll be the first to agree....
post #64 of 84
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally quoted by 7 Mary 3:
By the way, thanks to kiwiski and Mike B for actually reading my post unlike nolo who seems to just "hear what he wants to hear" and not actually read what is written.

Which is also much like Auxcrinier who read what I wrote, realized he is an arrogant jackass, and then convincingly put me in my place with a poetic *yawn*.

Keep those steller counter-points coming Johnnie Cochran.
post #65 of 84
Thread Starter 
It's amazing how this thread has inspired the recollection of the most arcane exceptions to the commonly accepted norms of sport etiquette. The red herring is alive and well on epicski. Long live the inane argument: may all the damn families and their stupid children leave the sport to you Clockwork Orange people: horrorshow and dos vidanya.
post #66 of 84

Perhaps you could restate exactly what kind of input you are looking for in a new thread. The initial topic and implication of volunteers apprehending and detaining people certainly raised the hair on my neck.

The usefulness of this specific thread died many posts ago. I’m not sure what your friend is suggesting. A fresh start may get us further.
post #67 of 84
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by man from oz:
There is no escaping the code in Vail. Yellow Jackets, Red Jackets & even the Sheriff can be found at major trail converges and high traffic areas. They do a great job and I am grateful that the company & town care enough to invest in Ski code education. The big emphasis is on separation of people and not speed per se.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Not to disillusion you about your employer in the States - but Vail ownes Keystone, right? Last year at Keystone early season, I got whacked in the back by an admittedly out of control boarder. (yep, I was downhill from him so had right of way) He was real apologetic, said he'd just started boarding, had not taken a lesson, was real *nice* about hitting me. Then kept tumbling down the slope.

I got up, skied past him and past a yellow jacket to a red jacket. Told the patroller what had happened, pointed out the boarder who was now uphill from us (since I had skied past him) and who was falling again. I told the patroller that I did NOT want him to pull the guy's ticket. But I did think that he should talk to him and invite him to take a lesson, so that he wouldn't keep hurting people on the slopes.

The ski equivalent of the highway cop saying "I'll let you get away with a warning this time" - but at least pulling him over.

No such luck. The patroller didn't even seem interested. So I finished my way down and nursed my rotator cuff injury I got from falling forward onto my left arm at a bad angle that crapped up my shoulder. Still hurts 13 months later.

I truly hope Vail Corporation has changed and now has the attitude you say they have about enforcing basic ski and boarding safety - without taking away the right of the good fast skier to ski fast under control in appropriate terrain. But my experience is that they were no better than any other resort. Nobody "policing" the slopes at all, but lots of people appearing to do so. But don't you dare offend the paying customers by pulling a ticket or even giving a warning.

BTW, just to reflect on your many "gun-crazed american" posts about your fears of being in America - I'm an NRA member, and no, I didn't shoot the boarder [img]smile.gif[/img]
I don't even carry. And certainly wouldn't on the slopes even if I did elsewhere!

As a law-abiding citizen, you don't have to worry about people like me, nor all the many law-abiding people in Colorado with guns. Problem is, in skiing, on the highway, and with guns - you have to worry about the NON-law-abiding people.
post #68 of 84
Thread Starter 

Why bother?

(Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result. Attributed to Einstein, but I am told by a reliable source that Einstein never said it at all. Bohr, on the other hand, said the opposite of a profound truth is another profound truth. Puzzle that instead of posses. It'll be more enlightening.)

post #69 of 84
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nolobolono:
It's amazing how this thread has inspired the recollection of the most arcane exceptions to the commonly accepted norms of sport etiquette. The red herring is alive and well on epicski. Long live the inane argument: may all the damn families and their stupid children leave the sport to you Clockwork Orange people: horrorshow and dos vidanya.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A bit harsh here perhaps, Nolo? Families and children do stupid things sometimes. Not everybody, not all the time, but 7Mary3's example is quite valid.

I'm only an intermediate-to-low advanced skier, but I've seen this on greens and blues, and even on blacks. The families who drag everybody out onto whatever the pre-teens believe they can ski, even though they really can't. Or who camp out across the top of a rise, blocking every line down it. Or who traverse and then stop out of sight under the drop.

Nobody is saying "may all the damn families and their stupid children leave the sport..." except you as a straw man. They are just saying that parents and learning skiers need to also take some responsibility, need to know the rules of the game they are playing.

Remember being taught "look both ways before crossing", "don't chase your ball out into the street between cars"? Hell, I've taught my greyhound to look both ways before crossing the street. How hard is it to teach kids not to ski into the terrain park and stop? Or (as I saw today) not to start stabbing each other with ski poles while loading?

In a post above I complained about patrollers and mountains not doing enough of the enforcement that you wanted - I'm not really against your point. But I also believe there needs to be moderation in the enforcement. Fast skiers have the right to still ski fast. Terrain park riders have the right to assume that the Ski-wee crowd isn't having a picnic in the pipe.

Maybe you should lower your rhetoric level. You basically "Godwin"-ed this thread when you called someone a Nazi for disagreeing. Now you're setting up a strawman that nobody who says "wait-I have the right to ski fast in control" is actually proposing.

Not a good way to make your point...

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ December 23, 2001 09:33 PM: Message edited 2 times, by MarkXS ]</font>
post #70 of 84
MarkXS, OH MY!, I can't believe how incredibly accurate that "Godwin" link of yours was. Where on Earth did you ever come across that?!? That was hilarious! Just as hilarious as me snowboarding today for the first time! (i suprisingly did pretty good, i really don't know what all the fuss is about with beginner snowboarders. i also realized even though snowboarding is much easier than skiing, i will never give up the sticks for a board)
post #71 of 84

Can't we just relax, and let natural selection take over? Quit blaming the fast skier, resort, patrol, lack of rules, poor grooming, and whatever else?
post #72 of 84
Thread Starter 
The actual flow of events on this thread:

Kiwiski brought Nazis up, calling the volunteer patrollers "nazi-police."

My student, whose suggestion it was to use volunteer patrol assistants, remarked upon visiting this thread, "I've never been called a Nazi before."

I, being shocked at Mary calling families and noncompetents downslope "debris," suggested she might be the Nazi on this thread.

A Clockwork Orange describes a society dominated by punks.

High rhetoric or accurate description depends on your point of view, doesn't it? In other words, do you come to this thread thinking, "I might be regarded as violating the Code, because someone might call what I do being out of control," or do you come to the thread thinking, "I wish someone would do something about those maniacs out there strafing me and my loved ones."

Your responses have much to do with:

1) Self assessment
2) Experiences
3) Your particular mountain demographics

Yesterday in the snow sports school locker room the instructors were saying, "I hate skiing this time of year because everyone is so crazy out there..." and then proceeded to exchange examples. One guy said, "I was skiing down XXX at a fair clip and this guy passed me in a straight run, with his tips kind of floating up and down: man, that was a scary sight!"

So, I'm nuts, over-reacting, etc.? No, I am someone who knows that families and children are the future of this sport, I make my living in this sport, and I'd like to continue working. The behavior of a few punks is making families quit the sport. That is a sad state of affairs. If I can raise awareness of the fact that there is a Code out there, maybe a few families will not experience mortal fear of the human projectile.
post #73 of 84
Irony: 7 Mary 3, a male who scolded someone once for assuming he was female, assumed that nolobolono, a female, was a male. And nolobolono has done exactly the same thing!

post #74 of 84
Yes, that is truly ironic. Alanis Morrisette, take note. That is irony. Rain on your wedding day is bad luck. Not irony.

post #75 of 84
Thread Starter 
How do you know I am a female?

Mary is a female name--was this not an honest mistake on my part?
post #76 of 84
Oh c'mon milesb, I wouldn't call that a scolding.

Kiwiski's reference to nazi-police stems from a very popular show called Sienfield. Since the rise of the "Soup Nazi" the term "ticket nazi", "bag nazi" (used by a fellow employee at the bank i work at because she gets so uptight about people leaving their deposit bags with us too long), and whatever else you can think of is used to describe someone who is an overbearing stickler on rules or anything else. 90% of the town I live in refers to this ticket cop as the ticket nazi. We swear he hides behind trees with a stop watch and writes you out a ticket 1 minute after your meter, or 30 minutes is up. It is quite comical how he seems to be everywhere all the time. I think he may be part of identical quintuplets or something.

Nolo on the other hand seems to actual believe I am a Nazi. Nolo, the funny part about all of your assumptions is that if you had an opportunity to meet me, you would see how incredibly wrong you are about me. Of course, I could try to grow out my hair, and dye it, and get a whole bunch of piercings, maybe a few tatoos and whatever else you'd like in order for me to fit your punk like assumption of me, but hey, I like just the way that I am.

Also Nolo, you proved yourself that you didn't read my argument very well. Had you read it you would see that I have never and will never argue that there shouldn't be family out there teaching their kids to ski. I agree that they are the future of our sport. I did however argue that there are many of us who believe that these families have a tendency to break the code by taking their children into terrain that is beyond their ability. This is where they cause problems and get in the way. When I was growing up my parents never allowed me to venture into terrain which was beyond my ability. Personnaly I feel it was a very wise and smart move on their part. When I see other families who are oblivious to that and just go wherever and then make complaints it is shocking and annoying. If I remember correctly (and I could be wrong because I don't feel like going back and seeing if I'm right) I said that if somebody is flying through a family area at mach looney then who ever is in that area to enjoy themselves has a right to be upset because this person is probably breaking the code. At the same time, other skiers have the right to be upset if the family with low ability skiers crowd the expert slopes because then the family skiers are breaking the code. I already argued this quite clearly so thats all I'm going to say.

Edit: 7 Mary 3 was the call name given to either Ponch or John Baker in the tv show ChiP's, it is also the name of a band, and yes Mary is a female name, but my handle is not Mary, it is 7 Mary 3, nonetheless an honest mistake considering you didn't know the background.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ December 24, 2001 10:08 AM: Message edited 1 time, by 7 Mary 3 ]</font>
post #77 of 84
post #78 of 84
dangerously close to becoming a 3 page topic. i'm pretty sure the thread's dead, godwin's law aside.
post #79 of 84
I think 7 Mary 3 was the name of Ponch and John's car. Like 1 Adam 12 on....um.....Was it Car 54? or T.J. Hooker?....Oh man, I can't remember.
post #80 of 84
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franknj229:
I think 7 Mary 3 was the name of Ponch and John's car. Like 1 Adam 12 on....um.....Was it Car 54? or T.J. Hooker?....Oh man, I can't remember.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ponch and John driving cars? Heretic! [img]tongue.gif[/img]
post #81 of 84
Great link Mark, but does that mean I just lost the argument.

Nolo - the stories of stupid family behavoiur were meant to show that stupid behavoiur is not limited to out of control teenagers. If anyone is interested in safety on the mountains you need to educate about all of the safety code. Where would you like this conversation to go. I seem to have missed how your last couple of posts relate to safety and the risk of collisions on snow.
post #82 of 84
Thread Starter 
Help Mr. Wizard!!! This thread is just incredible! Is everyone mad at me? All I wanted to know was "Are there any areas where this is done?" It was purely a request for information.

I have never engaged with a touchier bunch. You gotta get out of the house and get some sliding in or something.

A page or so ago I said I thought we'd put this one to bed. I think I'll start a new thread. (What was that about insanity?)Please bring your ire and disgruntlement over and we'll have some more fun.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ December 24, 2001 01:43 PM: Message edited 1 time, by nolobolono ]</font>
post #83 of 84
I do believe that we need a soup-nazi corollary to Godwin's law.

Any comparision to Nazis can be negated by a reference to Seinfeld.

"No posse for you"
post #84 of 84
love and tolerance
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