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eBay & Spyder - Page 2

post #31 of 54
I picked up some Spyder base layer stuff at Marshall's for $40 total- top and bottom. If its a deal, buy it. If it sucks, sell it on ebay!!! Just because it's fake doesn't mean it won't work. Everybody loves a great bootleg deal.
post #32 of 54
Marshalls/TJ Max (same company) has some sweet ski gear from various makes for extremely low prices...including Spyder.

Bought some boot gloves for only $12 a pop.

If you are ever in metro NY, check Century 21 Dept Store, 4 locations one across from former WTC. Right now you can get $300 Spyder coach's pants for $165, $85 gloves for $38.
post #33 of 54
Thread Starter 
DoWork - By reading some of the posts on here, I'd be cautious about saying everyone. Some people appreciate it, and this is the exact reason why I'm not taking sides on these posts. I'm posting my observations and curiosities.

I think it'd be a safe assumption that a lot of people bashing on the Chinese counterfeiters would be willing to buy a knockoff iPod that looked the same and functioned on par for half the price of a true retail iPod. People try protecting the businesses that they think deserve it... and that may differ between individuals. Different people have different values, opinions, and beliefs. I think that everyone has a right to this, and should not be criticized for it.

Here's a scenario: Assume a company produces these 'counterfeits' minus the Spyder mentions (Logo, tags, etc.)... Copied clear down to the technology, materials, etc.. To a point that they function identically and look identical except for the branding... Now assume that these counterfeit jackets showed up on eBay sold as Spyder replica jackets, and they were sold for dirt-cheap prices. Would you have the same opinions in this situation? Is it the copying that bothers you, or the fact they are portraying them as replicas? Would the lack of brand labels/logos 'ease the pain' a bit?

I've noticed that quite a bit of technology in ski jackets are created by a 3rd party. I've also noticed that when one person creates a new 'feature' the others jump on... like the powder skirts... I don't know who's brain-child it was, but I know that certain Karbon and Spyder jackets both have them.
What about that? If one company copies a feature from another company, is that okay? Not trying to take a stance on any of this... I just want to here some opinions on these slightly different scenarios.
post #34 of 54
Has anyone been able to confirm that this ski suit is a true model knock-off(this years model or at least 2 yrs old), or is it just copying of the Spyder branding. I was on a bus trip last week, and saw two of these jackets, one red and the other white.
post #35 of 54
I really doubt it to be real - though they really look authentic. But that price is very low... In my world, that set would be worth at least $500.. And there is a lot of fake spyder gear on ebay..
post #36 of 54
Quote:
I think it'd be a safe assumption that a lot of people bashing on the Chinese counterfeiters would be willing to buy a knockoff iPod that looked the same and functioned on par for half the price of a true retail iPod. People try protecting the businesses that they think deserve it... and that may differ between individuals. Different people have different values, opinions, and beliefs. I think that everyone has a right to this, and should not be criticized for it.
There are actually a number of competing -- and normally much cheaper -- MP3 players on the market (the Creative Zen and Microsoft Zune are the two biggest, but there are many others.) Apple just blankets the US market with so much advertising that you barely hear about the competition.

You certainly have a right to support or not support any manufacturer you want with your money. But manufacturers (especially ones with access to inside knowledge about a product) don't have the right to produce counterfeits, and IMO buying products produced like that is indirectly supporting theft.

Quote:
I've noticed that quite a bit of technology in ski jackets are created by a 3rd party. I've also noticed that when one person creates a new 'feature' the others jump on... like the powder skirts... I don't know who's brain-child it was, but I know that certain Karbon and Spyder jackets both have them.
What about that? If one company copies a feature from another company, is that okay? Not trying to take a stance on any of this... I just want to here some opinions on these slightly different scenarios.
This gets into some subtleties of copyright and patent law. If you can get a patent on a particular technical doodad or feature, nobody else can use it without your permission. But to be patented, something has to be "non-obvious" and meet certain other criteria. It's also a PITA and takes at least 6-12 months.

Powder skirts on jackets are probably considered too 'obvious' to be patentable (probably. You can get some very silly patents sometimes.) But things like, say, Gore-Tex (TM) fabric are probably covered by one or more patents. Sometimes it is also beneficial to use "trade secret" protection instead of patenting something, since then you do not have to disclose how it works -- but if someone else figures it out, you don't have the legal protection a patent would provide. You can also maintain a trade secret indefinitely (like the formula for Coca-Cola), but patent protection runs out after 25 years.

Most design-related ideas for clothing are not patented, but rather covered under copyright law. Designs change too fast, and you can't patent purely creative things like the "look" of a jacket or a color scheme. A "look-alike" design, as long as it is not an exact copy and was not produced with inside knowledge, is normally legal.

You get lawsuits over this sort of this thing occasionally. One famous example is Apple suing Microsoft over the "look and feel" of the Microsoft Windows desktop GUI (claiming it was stolen from the Apple Macintosh, in part with inside information that Microsoft had from working with Apple in the 80s.) Apple won, although they didn't get the huge settlement they were hoping for.
post #37 of 54
Thread Starter 
Matthias - Thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated. The answer was a little more legal-based than I was hoping for... my questions were posed in order to get personal opinion and beliefs.. 'Tis okay, though...

I still have not received the fake jacket and pants, but I should receive it soon. I did receive the REAL jacket I ordered, and I am in love. I'll get to try the pants out this upcoming weekend, as they just arrived today. I will do a comparison between the real jacket and the fake jacket as soon as I receive the fakes.

Grook - The real jacket and pants I got totaled about $400.... these were both drastically marked down... pants by 50% and jacket by about 30% I think... Spyder Revy pants and Spyder Rival jacket retail... $700.

artimus - I've done quite a bit of searching and I haven't seen that style of jacket anywhere else. I do not have access to Spyders old product catalogs, though. Every one of these that I saw on eBay, I can almost guarantee are counterfeit... Close to 100%, but not quite.
post #38 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by hydrogen_wv View Post
Matthias - Thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated. The answer was a little more legal-based than I was hoping for... my questions were posed in order to get personal opinion and beliefs.. 'Tis okay, though...
I interpreted your question about whether certain activities were "okay" as whether they were "legal", not "morally/ethically objectionable or not".

Whether these laws are "right" or "wrong" is a different question. Some people believe that our current system of patent/copyright law is completely messed up and should be abolished. I think there are good reasons for things to be set up the way they are, and the biggest problem is that copyright law is often confusing, poorly understood, and not evenly applied (especially in some foreign countries.)
post #39 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by hydrogen_wv View Post
I just ordered some Spyder stuff off of eBay, but after further reading I noticed there are apparently a lot of counterfeiters. The lot was a Jacket (2007 Legend? Dermizax-EV (sp?)) and a pair of pants. They are supposedly new WITHOUT tags (first thing that makes me nervous) for $130 for both. The link to the auction is:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...:X:AAQ:US:1123

There are a few other things that made me nervous, and I'm sure you'll pick up on some of them, look at his feedback. So, my question is, what do you think about this? Real or Fake? This will be my first Spyder product (except for my work jacket I was assigned), so I figure you all have a lot more experience with it than me...

Also, if they are fake, do you think they will still be at least close to the quality of a true Spyder product? Oh, and what exactly is the Spyder Anti-Counterfeit label...?

Thank you for all the feedback!!
The seller is from China and not from CA as his auction says. I would say that I am 99.9% sure that they will be counterfeits. However they will be a high quality counterfeit but I don't think worth the $130+ shipping that you paid.
post #40 of 54
Several issues here:

1) Do you think it's ethical to buy counterfeit goods? Obviously some do, some don't. I'd just note that ski related industries aren't exactly posting record profits these days; if you think they charge too much, stop and consider what a low volume industry skiing is, compared to say electronics. Fakes cut into what money they do make, as well as parasitizing their R and D. So don't pretend you're some cool later day Robin Hood, stealing from the fat cat companies to give to the poor (you). Or that you think we should all support the industry, but have special needs that allow you alone to screw it.

2) Do you think it's a good deal? Can be for you, if you mostly weight the basic performance parameters (does it keep me warm?) and don't care about the detail quality, the longevity, the symbolism of the real thing, or the ethics. Friends of mine even brag about the "knockoff" or "copy" watches and purses they buy in Hong Kong. But they don't for a moment think those copies are as good as the real deal. And they aren't: They wear out faster, and look it...you get what you pay for.
post #41 of 54
I agree with Matthias. I would like a Spyder jacket and snow pants, but I can't afford them right now, when I have a higher paying Job I might buy them. Instead I have last season's Marmot light rain jacket and wear a number of layers below it, it isn't awesome but it's still very good. I also subscribe to Netflix to watch my movies, I could download them very easily, but I feel like I have some moral imperative to pay for the content I enjoy.

Also you can't just look at the profit of just the materials, one needs to look at the whole company. What was their overall profit and how much did the executives earn? If Spyder is publicly traded then this information is easy to find.

Even just the Spyder symbol on the Jacket is itself worth something in some strange way, since it carries with it the value of all the advertising and sponsorship that Spyder does - regardless of the quality of the rest of the jacket.
post #42 of 54
hydrogen, Why did you break down and buy the jacket from the retailer? Who have stated several times about not being able to afford it, is it because you felt pressure from this forum or what? If you wanted to buy some great (authentic) gear for a large discount check out "sierra Trading Company" they are basically the Costco of ski clothes.
As for e-bay, I never buy clothes anymore. I purchased a pair of Diesel Jeans for a fraction of the cost and funny as it is the the slits for the button fly were all to small for the buttons. Personally though I have to try clothing on before I buy them. That goes for socks, ski gear, jeans, etc..
Hope you enjoy your jacket, hopefully you got something that is not insulated and that you can layer with!
post #43 of 54
Thread Starter 
WorldSkier - If I recall correctly, I didn't say that 'I' couldn't afford it, I said that in some cases some others may not be able to... and if they have no problem with the counterfeit gear and it is worth the price, i'm not going to judge anyone for buying it.

I wouldn't say it was pressure from the forum, but I do believe that if you can afford to buy the real deal, you should... as I stated in an earlier post. I had the money, so I bought some real gear.

The biggest thing was that I was drawn to the coat in that package... the orange one.. color 005 in that listing. I fell in love with the color, and compulsively bought it.. especially since it looked like an amazing deal. In all likelihood, I'll still wear the jacket out skiing sometimes. I'll just have to test it out and see what the pros and cons are of it.


beyond - No, I'm no robin hood. If I was I wouldn't have bought the real gear... I want Spyder to have my support because they make excellent gear and I support things that I think are support-worthy...
post #44 of 54
Thread Starter 
I recieved the fake jacket and pants. It didn't take more than a glance to verify they are fake. ALL of the materials are different than authentic spyder. The primary material is not waterproof and has a softer, more cloth-like feel than the real stuff. The jacket and pants are warm and comfortable, but it only took me 5 mins in them in the snow to realize they are junk.

I'm dealing with paypal to get my money back, and I'll gladly send their junk back to them if I have to. Oh, and I got a free gift! I got a pair of Calvin Klein underwear (which i'd assume are fake, also). They can have them, too.
post #45 of 54
Thread Starter 
Oh, and the real Spyder gear.... I love it. Spyder Revy Insulated pants and Spyder Rival jacket.... I thought my Columbia Vertex pants were good, but these only cost about $30 and are ten times better.

Real Jacket = $275
Real Pants = $125

$400 spent and worth every penny, and a few more.
post #46 of 54
Thread Starter 
Filed a paypal claim and got my money refunded. Left negative feedback on eBay notifying others that the gear is fake.

Seller did not request items back yet, and if he does not, I will pull out the seam ripper, take off all of the Spyder logos (If possible... *shrug*) and use them as spares if I have some friends going that need some outer layer.
post #47 of 54
Glad this seems to be working out in the end! Sounds like most buyers aren't able to tell the fakes from the real thing. Are the logos and labels on the jacket/pants real Spyder, or have those been faked too?
post #48 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by hydrogen_wv View Post
This really goes to show you that even feedback on eBay may not reveal the truth. These knockoffs are so good and most people that buy them are relatively inexperienced (*raises hand*) so they don't realize it... Not to mention that eBay feedback is generally more focused on shipping/payment and not the product itself.
As an eBay seller of ski equipment (although not apparel) I'd like to add that there's plenty of reputable eBay sellers out there and make sure you do take a good look at a sellers feedback before buying from them. I'd recommend staying away from the fakes even if they are good fakes, it really does hurt the honest ski shops who are selling the real thing. Buying apparel can be a risk on eBay unless you're buying from a seller you can really have some faith in.

eBay seller: milehighathletic
post #49 of 54
Thread Starter 
skier219... I will post some up-close pics next week, but here's a little rundown....

1) The Spyder logo on the chest area is a piece of felt that says Spyder and is very poorly sewn on.
2) The Powder skirt does't go tight enough.
3) The elastic things with the adjusters on them like in the hood and around the waist.. the Elastic cords are VERY thin and seem very fragile.
4) The tags were very thing paper, unlike the real Spyder gear which seem to typically have thicker paper... the Spylon tag says "after100 washings" instead of "after 20 washings"... No space between 'after' and '100' either.
5) The seam work is horrible... crooked seams and halfassed stitchwork
6) the Spyder butt for hang tags is not correct, It's about a half inch below the embroidered Spyder. The Embroidered Spyder is too long and narrow.

There are various other differences as well, but I can't recall right now. The Jacket is at my parents house and I'm an hour and a half away, so I won't get to go real in-depth until next week.

milehigh - It's good that there are reputable dealers on eBay. It's a shame there are frauds out there. I may check your store later and buy something if I find something I need.

Bottom line, though... I got duped, and I shouldn't have. I should have noticed the signs and it won't happen again. Don't be fooled, if all the knockoffs are this bad, you are better off going to a store and buying a cheapo jacket... the jackets I paid $35 for at Gabriel's (Weatherproof brand) are MUCH better than this fake jacket..
post #50 of 54

What was the result of the Spyder stuff you bought from ebay??

post #51 of 54

Why are you digging up these old threads about buying Spyder clothes on eBay?  If you just can't live without sporting that Spyder logo then buy the fake stuff from eBay and be done with it. There are many brands of ski clothing that are way better than Spyder; I know because that is what I used to wear until I saw the light a couple of years ago.

post #52 of 54

^^^^This, mostly. IMO Spyder (real Spyder) is competitive with other better brands, just in no way shape or form worth the premium you pay for it. Which is why so many folks think fleabay's the answer. If you desperately want Spyder, but at a realistic price, go to Sierra Trading Post and scoop up some 1-3 year old models getting closed out. Or go check out a slopeside store about now that's trying to get rid of this year's inventory; you can score stuff at 40-50% off easily. Otherwise go check out the other brands that are just as good or a bit better but more reasonable. 

post #53 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonty View Post

What was the result of the Spyder stuff you bought from ebay??

Quote:

Originally Posted by hydrogen_wv View Post

skier219... I will post some up-close pics next week, but here's a little rundown....

1) The Spyder logo on the chest area is a piece of felt that says Spyder and is very poorly sewn on.
2) The Powder skirt does't go tight enough.
3) The elastic things with the adjusters on them like in the hood and around the waist.. the Elastic cords are VERY thin and seem very fragile.
4) The tags were very thing paper, unlike the real Spyder gear which seem to typically have thicker paper... the Spylon tag says "after100 washings" instead of "after 20 washings"... No space between 'after' and '100' either.
5) The seam work is horrible... crooked seams and halfassed stitchwork
6) the Spyder butt for hang tags is not correct, It's about a half inch below the embroidered Spyder. The Embroidered Spyder is too long and narrow.

There are various other differences as well, but I can't recall right now. The Jacket is at my parents house and I'm an hour and a half away, so I won't get to go real in-depth until next week.

milehigh - It's good that there are reputable dealers on eBay. It's a shame there are frauds out there. I may check your store later and buy something if I find something I need.

Bottom line, though... I got duped, and I shouldn't have. I should have noticed the signs and it won't happen again. Don't be fooled, if all the knockoffs are this bad, you are better off going to a store and buying a cheapo jacket... the jackets I paid $35 for at Gabriel's (Weatherproof brand) are MUCH better than this fake jacket..

... errr, he loved the Spyder gear he bought, looked stylish and oh so hip, wore it to the slopes and was killed in a horrible cougar attack as he walked past the ski school drop-off?
 

 

post #54 of 54

cougars-life-time-woman-double-entende-cleavage-cup-coffee-t-demotivational-poster-1244482539.jpg

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