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delaminated volkl SL skis

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
I realize this is not really a race question, but these are race skis, and I imagine someone on this board has had experience with it.

I have a pair of 2006 Volkl SL's that have delaminated, with the metal topsheet pulling away from the rest of the ski. It started at a spot where a gate hit caused a dent in the edge of the topsheet, halfway between the binding toes and the ski tips. I repaired it once with epoxy and clamps at the end of last season, and it held until now. The delamination has now reopened, and now covers an area about four inches long extending all the way across the ski. I tried epoxy and clamps again, but it didnt hold.

Any suggestions on how to get this ski to last out the rest of the season? Is there a better epoxy than the hardware store stuff for this? I am even considering drilling a couple holes through the ski and bolting the skis together.

Thanks

Richr
post #2 of 24
How about warranty from Völkl?
post #3 of 24
Epoxy would have been your best bet. Are you using a rubbery epoxy that will have some elasticity once it is cured? Volkls are notorious for delaminating from slalom gates. Warranty isn't going to be valid on a ski that old. You should have probably taken them back to your rep/retailer as soon as it happened in hopes for a replacement. Now they are two seasons old and beat up - no way will they be replaced. If you can't get an epoxy to hold you might be SOL.
Later
Greg

PS. I moved this to the tuning forum as there are equipment repair professionals that lurk there.
post #4 of 24
Use a real epoxy that's appropriate for delams. Epoweld and Devcon 2-ton come to mind.
post #5 of 24
I used the infamous JB-Weld with metal in it for a few of my Volkl delams and the fixes lasted the second half of the season.

All you can do is clean it with alcohol, and find an epoxy that is as close in compound to the materials it will be gluing as possible.

At this point, I wouldn't hesitate to screw it together. Drill, countersink, epoxy, screw, dremel.

Metal-infused JBweld is the only thing that ever worked for me. I never tried Epoweld or Devcon though either.

Warranty is out... although they may fix them? Last time I tried sending skis back for a repair, they lost them. Now, I choose to fix on my own.
post #6 of 24
I hate to say it but it may be time to look for a replacement. Repairing those skis would be kind of ghetto...

If you deal with a shop that has a good relationship with Volkl, the warranty department may be able to hook you up with a single ski from a pair that was sent back or something. That's the only advice I have. I sent back a pair of P60 slaloms that were off warranty and they gave me a shop employee deal (cost - 20%) or something on a new pair of Racetigers. Go talk to them. It can't hurt...
post #7 of 24
If you absolutely must repair them, don't use a standard epoxy. Almost every regular epoxy will fail when flexed as much as a ski does. They cure way too stiff and hard.
There are flexable epoxies on the market that work extremely well for something like this. Tognar Toolworks carries Hysol 608 from Loctite. It is one of the few that really holds up well in high flex situations. And it dries totally clear, and can also be tinted.
Just make sure that you remove as much of the old epoxy, and clean the area with a solvent first, then apply and clamp it up for a few days.
A few more tricks to help are to keep the epoxy and ski in the 55-60 degree range to slow the cure time while mixing and spreading the epoxy. this will give you more time to work with it. Then once everything is clamped up, and the excess is removed, bring the skiis up to temperature to kick in the curing process. Leave them someplace warm for a few days to totally cure.
It worked for me on the repair to my Atomics. And I did them 2 years ago.

Mike
post #8 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctskierguy View Post
There are flexable epoxies on the market that work extremely well for something like this. Tognar Toolworks carries Hysol 608 from Loctite. It is one of the few that really holds up well in high flex situations. And it dries totally clear, and can also be tinted.
I'm not really sure why Tognar recommends 608 for delams. Compared to other structural adhesives, Hysol 608 is a fast-setting, easy-to-use epoxy; flexibility and impact resistance are not it's strong suits. I'm sure it works better than the regular stuff you get in a hardware store, but according to the spec sheet, it just seems far from ideal. I've been tempted to try it, but I don't exactly do to many delam repairs these days.
post #9 of 24
Actually the main issue is not whether it's flexible enough, but whether the tensile elongation of the fiberglass, metal, etc are met by the epoxy. Hysol's elongation is more than adequate enough for this. It's also amazingly easy to mix and use, and is tolerant of unequal batching.
It bonds disimiliar materials extremely well, better than some specialty adhesives that I've used in the past.
It's much better than anything that you'll find at your local hardware store.

Mike
post #10 of 24
For delamination repairs I have never had any luck with epoxies, tried many kinds. The best adhesive I have found for this use is 2 part urethane, MUCH more flexable when cured, extremely strong bond. I have used Kalex Urethane, double-bubble paks from Hardman / Elementis Performance Polymers. The small paks I have now did come from a ski shop.
post #11 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by samurai View Post
I used the infamous JB-Weld with metal in it for a few of my Volkl delams and the fixes lasted the second half of the season.

All you can do is clean it with alcohol, and find an epoxy that is as close in compound to the materials it will be gluing as possible.

At this point, I wouldn't hesitate to screw it together. Drill, countersink, epoxy, screw, dremel.

Metal-infused JBweld is the only thing that ever worked for me. I never tried Epoweld or Devcon though either.

Warranty is out... although they may fix them? Last time I tried sending skis back for a repair, they lost them. Now, I choose to fix on my own.
Hell, I wish if i sent skis back for repair they would lose them. Because that means brand new ski's.
post #12 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by SXF View Post
Hell, I wish if i sent skis back for repair they would lose them. Because that means brand new ski's.
They lost my G4's and gave me first generation Gotamas that were left on the shelf the next fall. The goats weren't selling and they had a few pairs to do nothing with. I was bummed at their floppiness. I wanted my G4s.

4 winters later, maybe 175 days or so on the goats, and I'm blown away at how great the ski remains. I can't believe I didn't like this ski for the first few days I rode it.

Yeah, that worked out.
post #13 of 24

Bringing up this old thread because I'm having the same problem. This is the THIRD PAIR of Volkl SL's that I have had delamination issues with. I've had each generation now, these are the 2010/11 Speedwalls and I have a strong feeling because this is their second season in use they're going to say your sh1t out of luck on your warranty buddy. I'm a Volkl lover and don't want to ski anything else but this is getting ridiculous. Any suggestions?

post #14 of 24

Ski something else.

post #15 of 24

It does sound like your out of luck for getting a warranty replacement.  Have you epoxied them? Are they still skiable or total trash? I've had a pair of skis that tarted to delam, epoxied them and then skied another season on them with no issues.  If theyre not bothering you then just throw some epoxy in there and forget about it.

If you want new skis, look into some Blizzards, oh wait I think im selling some, cough link in my sig cough.

post #16 of 24

No brand of SL skis are immune to delams or slit tips. A few years ago Volkl had major problems, but now are comparable to the rest.  We were on Volkl and after going through 4 pair switched to Atomic.  Guess what, in a season and a half we have gone through 5 pair of Atomic D2s. Most have been replaced under warranty, some lasted just a bit too long. The last few years we have carried two pair, not so much to have a training and racing pair but more so that when one breaks we have a back up. Even with two pair we have ended up in situations with nothing to ski on because by February SL race skis are hard to come by - shops keep inventory low and sell out, and it can take weeks to get a warranty replacement from the manufacturer. Very frustrating.  We quit hot boxing SL skis years ago because of the potential of weakening the ski. Besides, SL racing is all about sharp edges and skill, wax is not that big a factor on most days.

 

As mentioned in previous threads, epoxy does not work as it is too brittle. Urethane adhesive like Hardman double bubble purple is probably your best bet. 

 

After repair, ski it to see if it holds. Then check it with a true bar - most likely the base is no longer flat. If you are confident that the repair will hold, then its time for a stone grind to get the base flat again. 

 

That bolt through the ski idea would definitely hold it together! smile.gif

 

Good luck!

 

BST

post #17 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Basement Ski Tech View Post

No brand of SL skis are immune to delams or slit tips. A few years ago Volkl had major problems, but now are comparable to the rest.  We were on Volkl and after going through 4 pair switched to Atomic.  Guess what, in a season and a half we have gone through 5 pair of Atomic D2s. Most have been replaced under warranty, some lasted just a bit too long. The last few years we have carried two pair, not so much to have a training and racing pair but more so that when one breaks we have a back up. Even with two pair we have ended up in situations with nothing to ski on because by February SL race skis are hard to come by - shops keep inventory low and sell out, and it can take weeks to get a warranty replacement from the manufacturer. Very frustrating.  We quit hot boxing SL skis years ago because of the potential of weakening the ski. Besides, SL racing is all about sharp edges and skill, wax is not that big a factor on most days.

 

As mentioned in previous threads, epoxy does not work as it is too brittle. Urethane adhesive like Hardman double bubble purple is probably your best bet. 

 

After repair, ski it to see if it holds. Then check it with a true bar - most likely the base is no longer flat. If you are confident that the repair will hold, then its time for a stone grind to get the base flat again. 

 

That bolt through the ski idea would definitely hold it together! smile.gif

 

Good luck!

 

BST


I also don't hot box SL skis. Agreed, there's no real advantage in wax tech in SL- if any. If they don't honor the warranty I'll try the urethane adhesive you're suggesting to get me through the season. As far as a bolt goes- that wouldn't change the flex pattern at all?

post #18 of 24

The bolt comment was joke wink.gif

 

I suppose you could put a bolt in the other ski in the same place so your skis matched yahoo.gif

post #19 of 24


LOL. I have seen other people recommend it (legitimately) and I thought they were crazy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basement Ski Tech View Post

The bolt comment was joke wink.gif

 

I suppose you could put a bolt in the other ski in the same place so your skis matched yahoo.gif



 

post #20 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by philcski View Post


LOL. I have seen other people recommend it (legitimately) and I thought they were crazy.



 



smile.gif  No, i have seen it done.  I had a pair of Nordica SL a couple of years back that had been rivetted in the tips (3 rivets IIRC)

post #21 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier View Post



smile.gif  No, i have seen it done.  I had a pair of Nordica SL a couple of years back that had been rivetted in the tips (3 rivets IIRC)


 

I did it many years ago using 2 part epoxy then just drilling a small pilot hole, driving a small screw through the tip, then grinding down the other side smooth against the p-tex.  It held up just fine, and these skis saw many seasons of bump skiing with airs after the repair.  If it is more than just the topsheet I'd probably go ahead and consider replacing them, but regluing a topsheet is no big deal at all, 

post #22 of 24

I've had good luck with both epoxy and pop-nails on my cronicly delaminating kneissl tankers. First time they delaminated due to hitting a big man-made ditch that I diden't see due to flat ligth and lots of powder, double ejecting and slamming the body into the side of ditch. Second time I hit fairly big tree head on (ehh tip on) due to in indecisiveness (left? rigth?, crash!). I used 24 h epoxy and cured them in front of an oven as this is supposed to make the epoxy more elastic. They have held up very well between the two incidents.

IMG_3987.jpg

 

IMG_3989.jpg

 

IMG_3991.jpg

 

 

Obviously I think the secret to success is to use many clamps...

post #23 of 24

Smear - WOW! Cool picture. No wonder Home Depot was out of clamps last time I was there...

 

BST

post #24 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post


 

I did it many years ago using 2 part epoxy then just drilling a small pilot hole, driving a small screw through the tip, then grinding down the other side smooth against the p-tex.  It held up just fine, and these skis saw many seasons of bump skiing with airs after the repair.  If it is more than just the topsheet I'd probably go ahead and consider replacing them, but regluing a topsheet is no big deal at all, 


Ah yes, now you jog my memory, I did something similar (long time ago!)  on a pair of race stock P9 GS which i couldn't bear to give up.  They started to delaminate at the tail so I drilled and put a couple of rivets in.  However  I could not get them ground down quite flush so left some strange tracks in the snow!!!   A small rooster tail before twin tips had even been thought of!

 

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