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Cramps & Numbness In New Fischers?

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
I have a new pair of Fischer RC4 130 Soma boots and I'm having some issues. The boots are somewhat snug and hug my feet nicely (feel great around the house) but after a just a couple of runs my feet are killing me. I should point out that the schell fit is correct and I have custom made foot beds and wear a very thin sock. Whats happening is, I get a sharp pain in the balls of both feet and then severe cramping in my arch's. It gets so bad I need to pull the boots of every couple of runs and work the cramps out. I also get a numbness in my little toes and the area just behind. I have high archs, high instep, narrow heel and ankle, big calfs, severe duck walk (I bought the Soma's to help with the duck walk) and my foot is very rigid. I have the instep buckle as loose as it will go with some pain directly below. My dealer has softened the footbed in the arch area but doesn't recommend grinding down these particular boot boards. They did however recommend stretching the insteps and pucnhing out the fore foot area slightly. What are your thoughts before undertaking these steps? Also is there a way to soften the flex of these boots? I'm getting some pain in my shins and I'm having trouble getting pressure to the ski tips, I moved the forward lean down as far as it goes, the boots are a little stiff. Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks.
post #2 of 15
sounds like a boot balance issue?

does it feel like all your weight is on the balls of your foot? or on the heel? 50/50?

any better without the footbed at all? (you can tell if the pain is footbed or shell shape that way)
post #3 of 15
Thread Starter 
I know that when wearing the boots at home or in the shop they feel much better with the custom foot beds verses the stock insoles. I haven't tried skiing in the stockers, from past experience they've never worked for me. You may be right on the balance, could the extra forward lean I've added in contribute to the problem? My previous boots were Nordica Hot Rods with the 115 flex, I didn't have any of these problems with those. They were just really hard to take on and off and would shred my insteps. They would also hurt my instep right where the bottom of the boot meets the cuff at the flex point. The Hot Rods also required over 3 degrees in sole canting where the Fischers keep my ski's flat on the snow.
post #4 of 15
I see a few issues here:

1) Instep pressure resulting in arch cramping
2) Instep pressure resulting in nerve compression
3) Instep pressure resulting in metatarsal head pressure

Solutions:

1) reduce over buckling the toe and instep buckles
2) lower zeppa to allow for more instep room
3) Thin or remove tongue padding/plastic to allow more height
4) Thinner footbed
5) Thinner sock
6) Grind shell over instep to allow more room
7) Grind heel of shell to move foot back allowing more instep room

You did not state whether your forefoot (width) is wide. If I assume it is, then you may need to open up the forefoot width to allow more volume.

I agree with mtnlion on fore/aft bias balancing issues. Being rigid @ the foot (as stated) and assuming ROM @ ankle (STJ) is limited (dorsilflexion), possible increase in zeppa ramp and increase in boot sole toe height may open up the ankle to allow for a better ROM. Also, forward lean angles (upper cuff) will have to be checked for biomechanic/physiological compatibility. Lastly, the binding stand height differential should be checked for fore/aft bias.
post #5 of 15
Thread Starter 
Thanks Billy,
I agree with the instep pressure and have taken the following steps. The buckles are a loose as they will go, my socks are so thin I can see through them, I had the foot beds thinned and softened in the arch. A local shop is going to stretch the insteps out for me, hopefully this will work! My forefoot is for the most part average, I've had boots punched out in the past and run into problems. I have a severe duck walk problem where my little toe area gets pressured against the outside of the shell, going wider seems to make it worse. What is zeppa? The flex is rated at 130, in the cold they are very stiff and hurt my shins. It also is not allowing me to pressure my tips making turning difficult. Can these be softened up, I've heard you can cut a V in the back of the lower shell?

Thanks,
Buck
post #6 of 15
Quote:
A local shop is going to stretch the insteps out for me, hopefully this will work!
Make sure they don't distort the shell and create leakage.

Have you tried to take the liner out of the shell and put your foot into the liner? The liner should have some type of "elastic" or vinyl gasket over the instep. (of the liner tongue) Does the instep area still feel tight even though the liner is out of the boot? If so, you may have to work on the liner/tongue/footbed.

Quote:
What is zeppa?
The zeppa or bootboard is the spacer/support that the liner rests upon inside the shell and will usually create a "ramp" (toes low/heels higher)

Quote:
The flex is rated at 130, in the cold they are very stiff and hurt my shins. It also is not allowing me to pressure my tips making turning difficult. Can these be softened up, I've heard you can cut a V in the back of the lower shell?
Don't cut a "V" into the rear of this boot, you need to be assessed for fore/aft balance issues. Softening the boot will not solve this issue. (may make it worse)

As in the earlier reply, It seems that a limited ROM @ the ankle joint (STJ) creating limited dorsilflexion
needs to be addressed.
post #7 of 15
Thread Starter 
The liners feel fine outside of the boot, no issues there.
post #8 of 15
Pay attention to cantman's assessment of ankle dorsiflexion range of motion.

If R.O.M. is limited: the forefoot gets loaded when the range is used up. ie: pain and numbness in the forefoot and can make custom footbeds feel like they are causing pain. This can also cause a skier to believe that the boot is too stiff.

A stiff boot is good for skiers with limited ankle dorsiflexion R.O.M. More energy is transmitted to the front of the ski with less flex range being used.

If R.O.M. is zero, try a 3/8" heel lift, if R.O.M. is limited use a 1/4" heel lift, if R.O.M. is normal you will need to look elsewhere for your solution. ( footbed would be a good clue )

Also this may seem unrelated however you mentioned how the SOMA boot has eliminated the need for canting. I have heard a lot of great things about what the SOMA stance does, like cure cancer & syphilis in lab rats, however if you needed 3 degrees of sole cant in the Hot Rod, you still need some canting in the same direction in the Fischer. Just for the record your skis are always flat on the snow when you are skiing down the hill, however even when they are "flat on the snow", that does not mean you are properly aligned for performance and comfort.
post #9 of 15
Thread Starter 
The instep stretch didn't help, I had a hard time buckling the instep buckle prior (as loose as it goes). Now I can barely get it buckled and its tighter than before. I was told grinding the boot board wasn't an option as its to thin and has somewhat of a heel lift built in, is this true?
post #10 of 15
Quote:
Solutions:

1) reduce over buckling the toe and instep buckles
2) lower zeppa to allow for more instep room
3) Thin or remove tongue padding/plastic to allow more height
4) Thinner footbed
5) Thinner sock
6) Grind shell over instep to allow more room
7) Grind heel of shell to move foot back allowing more instep room
OK, now you've wasted some time with boot seller #1, it's your choice how much more time you waste. If the boot seller won't/can't help, run like hell to a recommended bootfitter and get results.

You've got a list of solutions waiting to be used, get a fitter that will utilize the solutions. Personally, I would never start with stretching the instep as results can/will be spotty/inconsistent.

The zeppa can be lowered slightly, but not much. It is limited by the internal shelves of the shell that is sits in. Too much grind, and you'll be feeling the shelf edges.
post #11 of 15
Thread Starter 
That was the reason given for not grinding the boot boards to begin with and going with the stretch.
post #12 of 15
The key is the words "IF YOU GRIND TOO MUCH" the issue is finding a bootfitter who will not grind too much, there is still a couple of mm to be had by grinding the zeppa, that is a couple of mm more than not grinding it

most issues caused by instep pressure need very small amounts of alteration to have a dramatic effect

stretching the boot over the instep whilst it can have an effect is probably the last thing i would do
post #13 of 15
Thread Starter 
Looking at the boot board or Zeppa, they're not flat (build in heel lift). Is there a problem when grinding the this particular Zeppa in maintaining this?
post #14 of 15
The zeppa can be ground @ the heel but I would be careful in lowering the ramp too much. As mentioned earlier, lack of ROM @ (STJ) ankle (lack of dorsilflexion) will necessitate a ramp. If you take too much away, you'll end up decreasing your end range of motion and increasing pressure on your met heads. (additionally driving your instep into the tongue instep area). Also, fore/aft bias will occur and a feeling of being "connected" (proprioceptive) will be reduced.
post #15 of 15
Going back to your initial posts....

"I get a sharp pain in the balls of both feet" = Heel Lifts

"and then severe cramping in my arch's. It gets so bad I need to pull the boots of every couple of runs and work the cramps out." = Poorly built footbed: Arch overbuilt, overposted, too hard a posting material for a "and my foot is very rigid" guy

"could the extra forward lean I've added in contribute to the problem?" = Yes! That is why you are having a hard time getting pressure to the front of the ski. You have limited R.O.M. and cannot flex your ankle enough to drive the pressure forward = heel lift and bringing the front of the boot to the shin with booster or driver plate & booster.

The instep stretch didn't help, I had a hard time buckling the instep buckle prior (as loose as it goes). Now I can barely get it buckled and its tighter than before. = getting dicked around by a knucklehead. Open up your tongue with a fit pocket directly above the instep bump. Cut or grind the soft plastic tongue cover.

The Hot Rod worked for you because it is more upright in the spoiler, it has a built in driver plate and booster combo that allows you, with your limited R.O.M. in the ankle joint, to pressure the front of the ski with less motion, and because it has a higher heel (ramp angle) then the SOMA

I am in agreement with cantman, time to find a better boot fitter.
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