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# Which mountain in the contiguous U.S.... - Page 2

MtHyak:

I've always heard good things about Alpental but have never been there. Looks fun. How far from Seattle?

I'm too stupid in math to figure out 135% grade. I *think* it would come out somewhere north of 50 degrees, but I don't know. Can you (or someone) translate into degrees for me?

Thanks for the map.

Bob

Oh, and how many vertical feet does that "maximum grade" go for?
I just reprinted from the book so I couldn't tell ya how to convert from percent to degrees, but in comparison the ideal beginner slope is at 8% grade. Personally, as long as the snow is in decent shape I don't find any terrain too difficult....but for steeps and cliffs, cliff drops, etc. you will find that at Alpental. If the conditions turn ICY then I wouldn't suggest going there unless you like to slide alot.
Re: gradient percent - this is simply the rise of a slope over the run of a slope X 100. It is used commonly in engineering where slopes are less than 45 degrees (which equals 100%). So a slope which rises 10m in 100m (or feet, yards, miles whatever) is 10%.

To convert degrees to percent, multiply by the tangent, then multiply by 100. To convert the other way, divide by 100 and multiply by inverse tangent.

Percent is not linear, ie: the difference between 5 and 10 percent is much more than between 90 and 95 percent.

Confused? Just be aware that anything over 35 degrees / 70 percent is really friggin' steep!
>....To convert degrees to percent, multiply by the tangent, then multiply by 100. To convert the other way, divide by 100 and multiply by inverse tangent. ....

There were a few too many "multiplies" in your receipe. I think you meant to say:

a) To convert degrees to percent grade, find the tangent of the number of degrees, then multiply by 100.

b) To convert the other way, divide the percent grade by 100, and then take the inverse tangent (aka arc tangent) of that number.

For example, 135% gets converted as arctan(1.35) = 53.47 degrees.

Tom / PM
I've skied all over the world, New Zealand, South America, Europe, and raced all over America and Canada in my youth.
So in my opinion JH is the best in the lower 48. Jackson has
good vertical which continues all the way down the mountain, and
it is a fairly large mountain. What sets it apart is the access
to the backcountry off the tram, a very extensive area that must easily triple the size of the skiing. And JH doesn't end there, they have teton pass skiing as well, quite enjoyable. I just
wish they would replace the tram with a gondola, I hate crowded
trams.
Quote:
 Originally posted by Bob.Peters:MrHyak: I've always heard good things about Alpental but have never been there. Looks fun. How far from Seattle? Oh, and how many vertical feet does that "maximum grade" go for?

Alpental is about 45-50 minutes from Seattle. As far as vertical feet for the maximum grade? I'd guess about 500'-700' or so.
You don't want to duck the ropes from up top of chair 2 unless you REALLY know what your doing. There seems to be at least one death a year from someone who ducks the rope, turns left through the trees and then drops from 100' to 500' over the cliffs.

http://www.theolympian.com/home/spec...06/19525.shtml
Mista Hyak: I know that you've always been a big proponent of Alpental, but why don't we hear more about this mountain from the Seattle contingent, seeing that it's such a short drive from the city?
For the question asked, Alpental fits the bill (advanced terrain, difficulty, steeps, etc) but its not for everyone (no easy runs) which is why I posted the info. I can't speak for others from WA., but maybe some will give us their reply?

Its a fun area, but its kinda small in todays terms of ski areas(around 700 acres inbounds), but does have extensive backcountry. The biggest downfall would be its elevation of 3,200' at the base (5,400' top) so warm fronts through the NW will end up dropping rain or very wet snow. This really isn't as much of a problem as some let on (400"-500" annual snowfall), but it happens from time to time. I spend more time at Hyak then I do at Alpental (I dislike crowds) but I don't make any claims that either area is better then other WA areas. Baker, Stevens, Crystal and White Pass are also fun areas as well (Crystal being the largest area).

BTW, Warren Miller actually made a movie called "Alpental" in 1967 when the resort first opened (I've never seen it though) and the area was again featured in his yearly movie in 1998 I believe. ISKI.COM also did an article on Alpental a few years back called "Alpental, an American LaGrave". It was good reading but the site is no longer around so the article is also vanished.

I was just hoping that someone else could post slope percentage or degree stats for comparison which is why I posted those 2 runs at Alpental...I was just curious...

http://hyak.net

[ September 09, 2002, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: MrHyak ]
Which mountain? (assuming you mean "lift-served") In the west I don't know but in the east I'm surprised that nobody mentioned Sugarloaf because of the steeps on the upper half of the mt. and the lines on the backside. Jay has the glades, the ridge and the face but gets brought down by a lot of blue terrain. Cannon also is worth mentioning for its challenging conditions, ice, wind, general steepness, and devious trail cutting.
roflmao. Mt high, the snow is crappy you have to be an expert skier! Err, I do have a season pass there tho. Its got its location advantages.
Quote:
 Originally posted by NewHampie:...I'm surprised that nobody mentioned Sugarloaf because of the steeps on the upper half of the mt. and the lines on the backside.
If you read the previous page, you'll see that I, The Carvemeister pointed out this fact quite cogently. Apparently, not many Jay afficianodos have skied there however.
I've skied Alpental and I was impressed by the steeps. I thought Crystal Mt. had some pretty steep terrain as well. The US PNW is definitley underated, probably not a bad thing though.
I believe Alpental was featured in Freeriders. It was a good segment, they sell more night tickets than day tickets there. I could only imagined what would happen to this place if was an hour away from NYC. Please, no mountain creek comments.

http://store.yahoo.com/skiingcompany...milfreer1.html
I agree with mr hyak about the difficulty of alpental. Skiing the upper mountain on flat light in mash potato conditions will challenge any expert. You can always count on one or two deaths there every year. One teenager died last winter after suffocating in a deep snowbank after "hucking" himself off a 20 foot cliff. Mt baker also deserves to be ranked near the top. 800 inches of snow last year, massive backcountry,tight chutes, cliffs, not much else an expert could ask for. Be carefull though, they still havent found bodies from the 98-99 season when they got over 1100 inches of snow.

[ September 10, 2002, 11:18 PM: Message edited by: crystalextreme ]
Mountain High?
Quote:
 Originally posted by crystalextreme:I agree with mr hyak about the difficulty of alpental. Skiing the upper mountain on flat light in mash potato conditions will challenge any expert. You can always count on one or two deaths there every year. One teenager died last winter after suffocating in a deep snowbank after "hucking" himself off a 20 foot cliff. Mt baker also deserves to be ranked near the top. 800 inches of snow last year, massive backcountry,tight chutes, cliffs, not much else an expert could ask for. Be carefull though, they still havent found bodies from the 98-99 season when they got over 1100 inches of snow.
So a new criterion is deaths/m**2. Seriously though, if you are skiing off 135% gradient, that's bloody steep. Tuckerman's is around 110%. Alpental steepness is then near Squaw's 65 degrees. Hey, jump into Corbet's. I really like my friend's definition of a steep slope. A steep slope is one that, when you get on it, you wonder what the hell you are doing there.
Hey, I stumbled across some pic's on the web that someone took going down International. It will give you a bit of an idea on the steepness...The first picture is looking at tht top of the run and the second is of a boarder about halfway down riding the ropeline. (the other side of the trees is cliff....

Quote:
 Originally posted by gonzostrike:Ski Roundtop, PA Ski Liberty, PA Wisp, MD Oglebay Park, WV AND any other mtn with <1000' vert
We have such challenges around Toronto too.
Steepness is one thing, but it's exposure that gets me paying attention. A steep slope that ends in a cliff band is a whole world different than one with a nice run-out.

There are some "no fall" areas in the Sierra, where you need to be on your game. For example, The Palisades at Sugar Bowl, CA. You have to pick your line here very carefully. I suspect that at many areas, that type of terrain would be parmenently closed:

Many places do close down there technical, no run-out, wooded areas. But MRG invites people to find the tightest, narrowest, steepest stuff you can. On an icy day you better be on your toes, or your going to be carried down in a death bucket. I would definitly vote for MGR for one of the top expert ski areas in the states.
Quote:
 Originally posted by CAPBOY:If we define a Mountainthat Challenges an Expert as a Mountain that any trail on the mountain scares the pants off an intermediate, I nominate the following mountains: West Coast: Taos East Coast: MRG These are both mountains that my wife was essentially confined to a handful of trails and the clubhouse.
Huh? Taos has a fair amount of intermediate terrain in ratio to the size of the mountain, I thought. In contrast, Snowbird is the kind of place that I think would be intermediate hell. TEHO.
Quote:
 Originally posted by rustyedge:Hey Gonzo, Have you ever been to Liberty or Roundtop? IF so, I'm glad you mentioned them. If not, I'm surprised you even know about them.
Wow, we really have some mid-atlantic skiers who are protective of their areas here. (see the lame trail maps thread as well.)

But anywho, I do agree with rustyedge that while I expected to see not much in the way of skiing at Liberty, I was frankly very impressed with the level of skiing I saw there. Didn't hurt that the skiers on the backside whenever I went up seemed to be 30% patrol or ski school, but yeah they could defeintly manage. But the hills? I haven't skied Roundtop, but Liberty was a little steep at top for a _very_ short pitch, but the "double-diamonds" there would be high blues at say Alta of Solitude. Seriously. Still, I'm very glad those little hills are there; kept me from going crazy for a couple of years.
I would agree with Terry morse about the sierras. There are a few resorts like Kirkwood, Squaw, Sugar bowl, that have "NO FALL ZONES" THAT ARE IN BOUNDS. If you take a fall in the "Cirque" at kirkwood, your pretty much going to die.My list would go 1 Kirkwood 2 squaw 3 jackson hole 4 snowbird. Trees are my friend
Quote:
 Originally posted by Kirkwoodman:, that have "NO FALL ZONES" THAT ARE IN BOUNDS. If you take a fall in the "Cirque" at kirkwood, your pretty much going to die.
I think The Cirque is out of bounds unless there is a competition going. I do agree that Kirkwood is really steep and difficult though.
Then how about "Once is enough" or the "Heart Chute? Or even "West Shore Chute for that matter?

Ever skied Grizzly at Bear Valley? There is some rocking terrain with huge air.

:
Best in the west Jackson Hole

New York - Catskill Mountain ski areas in order:

1 Hunter Mtn - Steepest longest trails by far to chalenge any expert skier (+ high speed quad, ++ early season snow making)

2 Belleayre Mtn - Lots of great bump trails (+ snow quality/grooming/snowmaking, +uncrowded trails on weekends, +family atmosphere, + cheap season pass for kids)

3 Windham Mtn - Wheel Chair and then there is Wheel Chair (+high speed quad, + nice lodge, + nice town/hotels/restraunts)
Catskills, speaking of the Catskills don't leave out -----. I was'nt gonna let the cat out the bag but I just had to say something. Thats a cool MTN.

[ September 30, 2002, 07:46 AM: Message edited by: EstCstSkr ]
Eastcoaster, why not edit the name of that mountain back out? You really want more of the Hunter crowd showing up there?
[quote]Originally posted by EstCstSkr:
[qb]Catskills, speaking of the Catskills don't leave out -----.