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thoughts on what contributes to speed? - Page 2

post #31 of 43
If big boy wants to play horse in the park or race in a race course, good for him. I'm guessing woo woo's competitive skiing is restricted to racing people who are not racing. World Champion Gaper.
post #32 of 43
Although I can't remember it happening, I would not mind at all if someone passed me while I was blasting down a trail, so long as they didn't then proceed to lollygag along at a snails pace when the trail got narrow, like those Saskatchewan driver's do in BC, pass you on a straight and then make you slow way down when you can't pass them.
post #33 of 43
Yeah, I was thinking woo woo competes while driving, too. Whether on the straight or curves...
post #34 of 43
Originally Posted by the woo woo kid View Post
hi. i thought i'ld start a thread to get peoples' thoughts on speed. please don't make this a competition. you fast, i fast, we fast (some english lesson,huh?)but there's always someone faster. let's just talk theory.

i'm 50yrs, 6'0 " 215lbs, level 7ish, been ski seriously these last 6 or so years, a little in high school before that.

right now, i'm on fischer rx8's 160 cm, before these, atomic beta carve 920 170 cm.
your skis are way to short and in the case of the Rx8 is way to turny for 'really" fast skiing

Originally Posted by the woo woo kid View Post
here's some scenarios to act as a sample or to just say... start the talk. let's consider the snow's smooth w/ a little loose stuff on top so we can factor out different skiing skills. let's just talk speed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
yep any idiot can go really fast down a smooth groomer
not much skill at all

Originally Posted by the woo woo kid View Post

when i ski cruisers, i like to bomb 'em, straight down and i make excellent speed, on either of those skis. i seriously, almost never get passed. if i'm pokeing around and get passed, i see if i can catch 'em, tuck if i have to, then straighten up as i close in, so it's an honest test, then pass 'em. i also factor in how they're skiing... turning or straight. alot of times they go ahead and bomb it and the race is on. i did this to see how my skis stacked up. like i said, i hardly ever get passed.

why is that? i don't consider myself a hot shot expert. i wear puffy clothes - my lateral profile is considerable. i'm not anal w/waxing. my skis aren't the world's fastest. yet i pass race skis and all. what contributes to speed?
wow you chase people down who pass you, so mature, skis almost have nothing to do with how fast you can ski, skis only matter if your in control. What contribute to the speed? going straighter more time in the falline.

Originally Posted by the woo woo kid View Post

when i ski steeps, i have a hard time keeping the speed down. if i don't make alot turns, skis sideways to fall line, i'm freekin flying!!! (on either skis) i see alot of people skiing w/tips basically down the hill, making shallow turns, keeping a moderate to medium speed. when i do that, away i go, look out sound barrier!

does weight have anything to do with it? yea, i know the whole Gallileo, leaning tower of pisa, two different weight cannonballs fell at the same rate thing. but i'm not sure that applies to an inclined plane.
the people keeping there speed slower than you have more of clue than you, they are shaping there turn in the falline which slows you down more than anything. If i had to guess you ski incomplete turns, and arent that good of a skier.

Weight has alot to do with it, more weight will carry you flat way easier.

Originally Posted by the woo woo kid View Post
consider this:

adults make better speed than kids. if you see, or are skiing w/a kid, even a racer on race skis, and the challenge comes up, they're easy to beat. adults are faster. even mom beats jr. how many times have you heard this..."come on! keep up" "i'm trying" even if the kid is a competent skier/racer, then you hear them tease 'em on the lift, "hey slowpoke!". this seems to be the general case until they get to be 15, 16, 17 or so.
wow you can beat a kid on race skis making turns while you dont make as many turns....I bet in a Gs course almost any racer kids will kick your butt. They actually know how to ski

Originally Posted by the woo woo kid View Post
could it be that a certain ski/length/stiffness etc. on a certain person just matches up better?
for certain race courses but for maching groomer anything long and with little sidecut is great, your skis dont meet either of these critia.

Originally Posted by the woo woo kid View Post
could it be that a person's mental attitude, in some nebulous way, translates to their skiing speed?

Originally Posted by the woo woo kid View Post
could it be that apprehension/fear keeps people a little slower, no matter what they say? (people aren't always honest )
yep, and realization of thier skills

Originally Posted by the woo woo kid View Post

could it be relaxation contributes to speed? it "seems" if i'm at speed, and i concentrate on imagining the ski's base perfectly flat, light on the snow, no edges, no resistance whatever, just the perfect glide, smooth and slick and as slippery as Sue was (on her first date) - then they go better. if i'm going slower and need too accelerate quick to catch someone, a hard charging frame of mind "seems" to get me up to speed quicker, then relax and gliiiiiiide..........barely touching the snow frame of mind "seems" to work good. don't know for sure.
yep flat bases at speed, straightlining so much skill involved. I think you find carving at speed much more fun.

Originally Posted by the woo woo kid View Post
when i first started skiing seriously in 01/02, i liked to go fast cause it's FUN, i got more runs in, and it was easier. my atomic beta carve 920's simply were not happy unless they were pointed straight down the hill. so i went fast. once i had the bindings moved slightly forward, they were stable and they ripped. it was SERIOUS work to go slow, so i went fast. why fight it? it was more fun and it was easier. could this have contributed to a skiing style or frame of mind that lends itself to speed?
the ski is too much ski for you to actaully ski so you got lazy and went fast

Originally Posted by the woo woo kid View Post
i don't know.

this is why i started this thread. many of you bears out there have an infinite more amount of knowledge and experience than this cub. many are racers or have " lil rippers " in their family and they can offer their knowledge or perhaps the discussion will aid in their quest as well.

put your professer hat on. let's start class!!!


today's lesson is SPEED!!!

I do know, your a a aggresive skier that has no real clue on what going on with skiing. Fast skiing isnt allways good skiing. fast skiing can be a product of good skiing but not if you skidding down every hill. Learn how to ski, learn how to carve take a lesson, and you be able to go just as fast with WAY more control.

Also a video of your skiing could totally prove me wrong, but I doubt it I suggest you post some.

and yes I am coming off as harsh, but am saying what everyone wants to say. I am sure your a great guy just a little misguided.
post #35 of 43

Are you highway star's dad?

Just wondering....
post #36 of 43
Originally Posted by Lonnie View Post

Are you highway star's dad?

Just wondering....
no, Hs can actually ski, and alot of people made fun of him would have issues keeping up with him off trail.

PSIA or PMTS isnt allways the answers either
post #37 of 43
Originally Posted by the woo woo kid View Post
...as do women, due to their smaller frames.... yet they tend to be slower.
no correlation to a woman's frame and her intellegence...

woo woo, there is nothing wrong with going fast as long as you don't hit the paying customers. Have you? Nothing in your original post would indicate that.

Your skis are too short for fast skiing.

My experience with speed, which is limited, is that when the ski is on edge or "loaded", I feel safer. When the ski is flat, I think of Bill Johnson's fall. When the ski is carving it almost feels attached to the snow, like you can't get hurt.

PWPA, it's not HS's skiing, it's more what HE says about his skiing. woo woo, I'm calling you out
post #38 of 43
What contributes to speed?

Well.....physics aside...I would say it's lack of skill. Anyone who's an instructor has seen plenty of out-of-control five-year-olds do the power wedge of death right down the fall line to some terror-inducing speeds.

Good skiers always ski in control, and as they improve can increase their speed at will without ever losing control. In fact, that's what racing is all about: going as fast as your skills allow while keeping the control that the course/event dictates.

Maybe you should take a closer look at all those "race ski skiers" you are passing.
post #39 of 43
Y?ou sound like the guy in the Thunder lift line today who asked me "what makes a one ski faster than another?". Everyone around laughed when I said the way the skier points them down the hill. For a recreational skier who is in control, speed is determined by the size and shape of the turns. Not by design or wax or any other tech stuff that a racer might need for an extra 1/10 of a second. Kids seem slower because they tend to slide around on a flatter ski and get speed control through skidding. Yes I know a flat ski can be faster than an edged ski, but not if it is skidding. Speed control in a turn can happen at all phases of a properly executed turn. In the steeps there is usually some shmear that gives a bit more, even in a nice round turn. This is why experts on the steeps who are skiing in the fall line have more speed control than you say you have. My bet is that you don't have an effective finish to your turn and actually gain speed from one turn to the next... I'm not trying to be critical, but this is what I see in my students who ask some of the same questions you do.

On the critical side... WTF are you doing playing speed games. If you want to ski fast, pick your own line and mind the safety. Don't get involved with other people and what they are doing. Better yet join a race league and get good for reals.
post #40 of 43
Originally Posted by Matthias99 View Post
If you keep the same size/shape, then yes. But heavier people are also generally bigger, so in practice it doesn't always work out that way.

Top speed is limited solely by friction between your skis and snow, and air resistance between your body and the air. Friction is proportional to weight*, so changing your weight shouldn't do much there. Air resistance is proportional to surface area and velocity; if you become denser, you will have more gravitational force pulling you down but the same air resistance, so you will have a higher top speed.

*Mostly. In terms of skiing, this is friction between either a thin metal rail or a waxed plastic surface and a very thin layer of pressurized water, which is much more complex than normal sliding friction between two solid objects.


Obviously -- don't ski out of control anywhere near other people (and it's not such a good idea for your general health.) If you want to go as fast as you possibly can, do it on a racecourse or an empty slope. I would hope that the OP is not bombing down easy groomers that are full of other people.
Exactly, weight doesn't affect the results like you might think it does.
post #41 of 43
Originally Posted by epl View Post
acceleration due to gravity is constant and independent of mass. adults are faster on average because more mass helps them maintain speed on flatter parts of the hill. kids are shorter but also have less mass in proportion to their height i.e. a 3 foot tall kid does not weight half as much as a 6 foot tall man, so wind resistance affects them more.
If you assume that the ski/snow friction is proportional to weight (as it is for 'normal' sliding friction between two flat surfaces), then denser skiers will have a higher top speed. They should also hold speed better, at least at high speed, since they experience relatively less wind resistance. But it's not really the difference in mass so much as the difference in density (or more precisely, mass divided by cross-sectional area.)

It may also be that ski/snow friction is not directly proportional with weight (which might further benefit heavier skiers.) I don't know enough about the physics involved. Bigger and heavier skiers also generally use longer skis, which seems to help (probably for a few reasons, such as reduced pressure and a proportionally narrower tip relative to the amount of surface area.)

If you really want to go fast in a straight line, use really long, really narrow, totally straight skis. Of course, you won't be able to turn, which is why they only use skis like this for jumping.
post #42 of 43
Soon as i read the OP i got the conclusion the he was dangerous. Constantly interested in passing and racing people down the hill does not sound like safe or good skiing to me.

Take a lesson. I did this year and it really helped to refine my technique and slow me down. It will do the same for you.
post #43 of 43
It sounds like you've crossed pistes with other bears.

Could it be?:
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