EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Tuning, Maintenance and Repairs › Base and edge angles for 10yr old racer?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Base and edge angles for 10yr old racer?

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
I am looking for advice on a suitable combination of angles for an I2 (J5?) racer.: He's a slender kid at ~85lbs and a reasonably good skier. He has a few balance and weighting issues to work through at the moment and has a tendency to ski with a too wide stance and weighting his inside ski.

I had both of his pairs of skis (Elan RCX - SL and Elan RCG - GS) setup for 2/0.5. Since he is having some difficulties getting a good edge, I wanted to give him a more aggressive edge at 3/0.5 but a coach (not his) mentioned that 3 may be difficult for him.

What does the collective wisdom of the forum think?
post #2 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroGravity View Post
I am looking for advice on a suitable combination of angles for an I2 (J5?) racer.: He's a slender kid at ~85lbs and a reasonably good skier. He has a few balance and weighting issues to work through at the moment and has a tendency to ski with a too wide stance and weighting his inside ski.

I had both of his pairs of skis (Elan RCX - SL and Elan RCG - GS) setup for 2/0.5. Since he is having some difficulties getting a good edge, I wanted to give him a more aggressive edge at 3/0.5 but a coach (not his) mentioned that 3 may be difficult for him.

What does the collective wisdom of the forum think?
3 is not the problem although i still think it may be a little aggressive for a J5.

A .5 is a very demanding base bevel. It gives very little ability to skid. You are either on edge or off with little foregiveness in between. . If you are not right on your skis they can very unruly. Base bevel does not increase edge grip. It governs how quickly the edge engages when the ski is tipped . Side edge bevel governs how well the ski holds once the edge is engaged.

I would go with a 1/2. (for future refernce you always quote base bevel first, then side edge bevel) so that would be a 1 base and 2 side edge. the reason he can't get a good edge is technique not bevel angle. I understand you want to give hime the best combo for him to be successful but by using a very demanding .5 degree base bevel you are maiking his skis extremely demanding.

A .5 base bevel is definetly not the answer. Since you can change side edge bevel up or down without a grind. I would definetly increase his base bevel to 1 and leave the side at 3. (You only want to change one thing at a time so you know which change was a plus)

If after skiing on the 1/3 all day he is still struggling, change the side edge to a 2.

Base bevel changes of even .2 degrees have a profound effect on the skis characteristics.

Many coaches just don't have a handle on tuning issues.
post #3 of 11
As Atomicman said, experimenting with the bevel angles may be your best option.

I'm wondering if the grippier 3° side edge angle will work better for lighter kids (also not as powerful??) than heavier, stronger kids??? This past winter, my super lightweight (now 11) vastly improved and confidence grew when I bumped up his side edge to 3° from 2° as it was easier to set and hold an edge with less force than shallower angles. He's not a racer but is skiing steep terrain (including steep groomers) and carving versus skidding and loves the feeling and control of 'riding the rails'. :
post #4 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
the reason he can't get a good edge is technique not bevel angle. I understand you want to give hime the best combo for him to be successful but by using a very demanding .5 degree base bevel you are maiking his skis extremely demanding.
Thanks. I am 100% in agreement that his technique is the real key, and we're working on that, but as you said, I am trying to give whatever advantage I can. I assumed that the 0.5 base bevel would engage at a lesser ski angle and would make up some of the lack of ski angle by technique.

I will likely try the combo of edge angle of 3 and base bevel of 1.
post #5 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroGravity View Post
Thanks. I am 100% in agreement that his technique is the real key, and we're working on that, but as you said, I am trying to give whatever advantage I can. I assumed that the 0.5 base bevel would engage at a lesser ski angle and would make up some of the lack of ski angle by technique.

I will likely try the combo of edge angle of 3 and base bevel of 1.
Like many things in life i think the opposite result is what you will get with less base bevel.

Yes, a .5 takes less tipping angle to get to edge, but is much less forgiving of poor technique.
post #6 of 11
Thread Starter 
Good thing that my supplies order that just arrived included a 1 degree guide
post #7 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroGravity View Post
Good thing that my supplies order that just arrived included a 1 degree guide
One word of caution. I have tuned a ton of skis. i have found that it is extremely easy to overbevel the base.

I am tuning most of my skis at a .7.

I aceived a .7 with 1 overlapping pass and one pass tip to tail using SVST's final cut base beveler. I also use SVST's pro-bevel meter to measure base & side, which measures bevels within 3 minutes of 1 degree accuracy. I will make a bold statement here. I will say that the majority if not close to 99% of the skiers out there have over base beveled skis.

So what I m saying is be ginger with your base beveling. Way too much base bevel is as bad as too little.
post #8 of 11
I'd get the base set where you like it to be by a shop (I concur -- 1 degree seems to be the ticket) and then leave the base edge alone. Sharpen the side edge, but don't worry about the base. The most I do is run the gummi along the base edge to take any rust off. I just sharpen (file/diamond stone) the side edge. Just my two cents.
post #9 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmoney24 View Post
I'd get the base set where you like it to be by a shop (I concur -- 1 degree seems to be the ticket) and then leave the base edge alone. Sharpen the side edge, but don't worry about the base. The most I do is run the gummi along the base edge to take any rust off. I just sharpen (file/diamond stone) the side edge. Just my two cents.


Yes to maintain your skis you should only work on the side edge once the base bevel is set an polished.
post #10 of 11
One more word of advice. I wouldn't be too worried about how your J5 is skiing or particularly his results. it means next to nothing in the future.

What you want to do, is make sure he is having fun and continues to enjoy the sport and keeps on racing.

Almost none of the kids who J5 hotshots when my boys were J5's were in the top tier of racing when my boys had grown to J2 & J1's. those early performers had been surpassed or quit!

In retrospect, US ski team members have told me there racing careers didn't really start until they were about 19. Everything before that was just practice.

Give him somehting easy to ski on and highly promote a balanced approach of gate training and a ton of freeskiing! It will pay him back in spades when he gets older! (And you too!)
post #11 of 11
I have found that the best initial configuration for young skiers is 1 degree base/2 degrees edge, and the age I start this is usually 10 or 11, depending on the skill (not the size or age) of the skier.

When the skier is comfortable with this setup, and has good lateral balance (key point being consistently on the downhill ski), I recommend going to 1 base/3 edge. Most of our K1 racers (11 & 12, roughly equivalent to J4 I believe) will have SL and GS skis, and these tuning configurations are used initially for both events. A later refinement for the skilled K1 racers is to relax the base bevel for SL skis for a configuration of .5 base/3 edge.

Any time that you've made changes to the base/edge angles, be sure to let the coaches know so that they account for the equipment changes when they see changes in skiing. It can take 3 or 4 days of training for the young racer to first, be comfortable with the new setup, and second, get the desired effect out of the higher performance tune.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Tuning, Maintenance and Repairs
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Tuning, Maintenance and Repairs › Base and edge angles for 10yr old racer?