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Stowe vs. Smuggs: Locals please

post #1 of 30
Thread Starter 
We recently had the opportunity to ski Stowe and Smuggs back to back. I would be curious as to which mountain the locals prefer as far as :

1. terrain and challenge
2. general vibe ( we noticed this to be quite different in both)
3. type of crowd that the mountain attracts

I will not render my opinion just yet so as not to bias anyone.
post #2 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dauntless View Post
We recently had the opportunity to ski Stowe and Smuggs back to back. I would be curious as to which mountain the locals prefer as far as :

1. terrain and challenge
2. general vibe ( we noticed this to be quite different in both)
3. type of crowd that the mountain attracts

I will not render my opinion just yet so as not to bias anyone.
Not a local, but I've been to both several times.

Better food at Stowe, prefer Smuggs for everything else. Except for the slow lifts.
post #3 of 30
Quote:
We recently had the opportunity to ski Stowe and Smuggs back to back. I would be curious as to which mountain the locals prefer as far as :

1. terrain and challenge
2. general vibe ( we noticed this to be quite different in both)
3. type of crowd that the mountain attracts
I lived in the vicinity for about 7 years. I skied the first two seasons at Smuggs, the third at Stowe, and the final four at Jay Peak.


My impressions:

Stowe:
1. Great challenging terrain. Stowe has a LOT of amazing woods and easily accessible "back-country" (Stuff to hike to from the lifts and gondola) to compliment their front four. I really like the terrain at Stowe

2. It depends on who you're with on this one. Stowe has a strong local crowd of rippers and a bunch of fun bars, but the resort attracts a wealthier, "yuppish" type who are not always the most fun to be around.

3. Yuppies and locals.



Smuggs:
1. Good terrain at Smuggs as well, although there are longer hikes required to ski a lot of the best woods there.

2. Smuggs is continuously voted the #1 family resort in the country, and their village and lower mountain reflect this. The upper mountain, however, has more of a local feel without the yuppiness of Stowe.

3. Families and locals.



Jay Peak:
1. Better steeps and trees than either of the above (and lift access to almost all!)

2. Jay Peak "Resort" is small and rather undeveloped. (They have something like 5 toilets for the whole place cuz the lodge is old and small.) It has a very loyal contingent of skiers, many of whom come from Montreal. They get as many tourists from Ontario and Quebec as from the states.

3. Canadians and locals.




OK, so I threw Jay in there because that's where I chose to stay after skiing at each of the other two. They all have excellent terrain, but the stereotypes (which all have roots in reality...) Stowe has Yuppies, Smuggs has Families (ie. loads of little kids) and Jay has Canadians, including many who refuse to admit they can speak English and babble on and on in French while sitting on the knuckle of a jump... sorry, lost it there for a second... Anyways, I don't know which of these you think is worse, but I think the terrain is the best at Jay, and that's why once I skied there I never went back.

post #4 of 30

What about Sugarbush??? (taken last Friday)

 

P1000410(1).JPGP1000413(1).JPG

post #5 of 30

I think Jay, Smuggs and Stowe all have reason of merit for going.

 

Last friday in the stowe area we had untracked powder. unlocals would never have got it but the thing is we have it and we STILL have it even after the weekend.

 

1000x500px-LL-cae4e6bb_180192_10150098718563357_505253356_6137250_2576070_n.jpg

 

 

 

If you come to stowe, i ll give ya a quick tour if you can work around my busy schedule.

post #6 of 30

I've been to both twice, at Xmas break, in consecutive seasons (07 and 08 Smuggs; 09 and 10 Stowe).  Here's my ranking:

 

skiing:  Stowe

 

apres ski, in general:  Stowe (not the resort, but the area)

 

apres ski, kids under 8:  Smuggs

 

teaching kids to ski:  Smuggs

 

lifts:  Stowe

 

Ski shops:  Stowe

 

not bumping into the owner of a hedge fund:  Smuggs

post #7 of 30



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post

I think Jay, Smuggs and Stowe all have reason of merit for going.

 

Last friday in the stowe area we had untracked powder. unlocals would never have got it but the thing is we have it and we STILL have it even after the weekend.

 

1000x500px-LL-cae4e6bb_180192_10150098718563357_505253356_6137250_2576070_n.jpg

 

 

 

If you come to stowe, i ll give ya a quick tour if you can work around my busy schedule.



That is a sick picture!  Where is that in stowe, I am not expecting you to give up your secret stash, but could you tell me the general vacinity?

post #8 of 30

Throw in MRG and you've got the best ski areas in Vermont, for sure.

post #9 of 30

Smuggs and Stowe, despite sharing a mountain, are vastly different areas. Both have some good on-piste terrain. I'd say Goat at Stowe and Black Hole at Smuggs are fairly comparable in their difficulty. However, Stowe has Smuggs beat hands down for back and side country. Stowe is on Mansfield, which has some genuine above treeline backcountry spots, off the Chin and the Lips. Add into that the bc trails off the Nose, and the adventurous who have the wherewithal to ski the backside and drive an hour back to Stowe, and Stowe smashes Smuggs. Not taking anything away from off-piste at Smuggs, there are some great lines there. But anything Smuggs has, Stowe has more of, and Stowe has things Smuggs doesn't.

 

Beyond terrain, the lift system at Stowe is definitely better than Smuggs, without a doubt. The Fourrunner at Stowe may be the oldest high speed quad in the country, but it's still a high speed. Add to that the gondi and a couple high speeds on Spruce, and Stowe wins in that category. Although Stowe does have its share of rickety old slow lifts as well.

 

On hill amenities... Waffle Cabin at Stowe. Damn, now I need to go get one. Hang on.......... Okay, back. Mmmmmmm, phenomenal.

 

Apres. Matterhorn (feeling 'Horny?), Rusty Nail, Shed... Stowe wins.

 

Kids programs goes to Smuggs. Stowe is good, but Smuggs makes its hay on kids programs, so they put more into it.

 

The people goes to Smuggs as well. Both hills have a great crew of locals and semi-locals(Burlingtonians and such). However, at Stowe you're more likely to find people who dont follow etiquette rules and the Responsibility Code. Last week I watched 3 snowboarders in jogging pants and hoodie sweatshirts sideslip their way down Goat. They tore away the snow cover in about a half dozen troughs, and then one of them almost ran into me. When I suggested they should probably find an easier trail that's more within their ability, they cursed me out and told me they didn't know where they were going when they got here. I kindly reminded them that they passed a sign at the top of S-53 warning that the terrain ahead was for Experts Only, and again passed another one as they entered Goat... which was right next to the bright orange closed rope that was across the entrance they used. You encounter that type with a great deal more frequency at Stowe than at Smuggs, unfortunately. The greater difficulty in getting to Smuggs, and its aforementioned lack of amenities tends to repel the lowest common denominator that you find at Stowe.

 

Stowe has developed itself into high end destination resort, and has the more corporate feel that goes along with that. That can be a drawback for some, but it also means Stowe has the more high-end amenities that a major resort has. Smuggs still retains a smaller, more local feel, which many people like. But that also means that Smuggs has a more basic, older infrastructure. So I'd say that's a tossup, a give and take betweent the two.

 

Overall, I give the medal to Stowe.

post #10 of 30


 

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeski919 View Post

 

The people goes to Smuggs as well. Both hills have a great crew of locals and semi-locals(Burlingtonians and such). However, at Stowe you're more likely to find people who dont follow etiquette rules and the Responsibility Code. Last week I watched 3 snowboarders in jogging pants and hoodie sweatshirts sideslip their way down Goat. They tore away the snow cover in about a half dozen troughs, and then one of them almost ran into me. When I suggested they should probably find an easier trail that's more within their ability, they cursed me out and told me they didn't know where they were going when they got here. I kindly reminded them that they passed a sign at the top of S-53 warning that the terrain ahead was for Experts Only, and again passed another one as they entered Goat... which was right next to the bright orange closed rope that was across the entrance they used. You encounter that type with a great deal more frequency at Stowe than at Smuggs, unfortunately. The greater difficulty in getting to Smuggs, and its aforementioned lack of amenities tends to repel the lowest common denominator that you find at Stowe.

 

 

I am a semi-regular Stowe visitor; never made it to Smuggs.  I concur that there can be some air-heads at Stowe, both of the skier and boarder variety.  My personal favorite recently has been the father / son combo I saw on West Smuggs (the bump run over on the Spruce side) .  The father had his son in one of those ski harness things, and neither one could ski bumps to save their life.  So a reasonably narrow trail had two clueless skiers connected by a rope stretched across it.  I had a few choice words for Dad which weren't terribly appreciated, but whatever...

 

But how you could get into Goat without realizing that you're getting into "not your normal ski trail" is beyond me.  Oh well, I guess now I know why the entrance to Goat is basically dirt.

post #11 of 30


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TFull View Post



 



That is a sick picture!  Where is that in stowe, I am not expecting you to give up your secret stash, but could you tell me the general vacinity?


its clearly visible from multiple place in the resort, but it takes an hour to get to to get maybe 40 turns that could core shot your skis.

 

this was stowe today while they reported 0 inches of new and this was 0 work off the lift. Once your learn to ski, aka actually being able to ski tight woods with varible conditions and cover you could actually ski more untracked snow here in one year then most places out west. Simply because not enough people are that good at skiing. Out west is easy, this is tougher but the rewards is so much better. I ski powder nearly everyday here, and I cant wait till the day that our policies in the mountain  school/ mountain operations changes so that we can market this experience to guest.  this picture was takin with view of lift and is open to the public but currently I can only show other people this stuff off the clock as it is not on our trail map.

 

180097_10150091239715000_669099999_6443198_6560775_n.jpg

post #12 of 30

I am with you. I have skied plenty of tight wood at my home moutain of killington to get to some untracked stuff a week after a storm. I also agree with you that east coast skiing can be more difficult than out west. Tight trees might be some of the hardest terrain you can find, That coupled with the days the moutain is ice covered and bullet proof make for a challenging experience

post #13 of 30

So I know this thread is about Stowe vs. Smuggs, but I gotta give some love for MRG. The terrain is far superior if you like tight woods and nice drops, also the single chair ads to the romance I have with MRG. True east coast skiing at its best. 

 

Only down side can be the lift lines on a powder day.

 

 

Other then that I love Wildcat and Cannon :-) 

 

SKI 93

post #14 of 30


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastoftheEast View Post

So I know this thread is about Stowe vs. Smuggs, but I gotta give some love for MRG. The terrain is far superior if you like tight woods and nice drops, also the single chair ads to the romance I have with MRG. True east coast skiing at its best. 

 

Only down side can be the lift lines on a powder day.

 

 

Other then that I love Wildcat and Cannon :-) 

 

SKI 93



MRG has sweet terrain but its is not sweeter than the stowe's off trail. really,

post #15 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post


 



MRG has sweet terrain but its is not sweeter than the stowe's off trail. really,



never had the chance to explore off trail at stowe but from your pictures and vids i feel like i need to

post #16 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastoftheEast View Post





never had the chance to explore off trail at stowe but from your pictures and vids i feel like i need to



MRG has some of the best bumps around because they never get hit with a groomer though... Stowe has some slope management policies that can be strange. IE groom down awesome bumps which then become push piled spaced out bastard childs of bumps when it gets re bumped up.

post #17 of 30

I haven't skied either, but this thread is making me want to plan a trip for next year! Thanks for all the info, guys!icon14.gif

post #18 of 30

I like Stowe and MRG a lot, and have been intrigued by Smuggs for a long time.  But it seems to be really impractical to ski Smuggs for anything less than a "ski vacation."  It is hard to get to, and there do not seem to be any cheap off-resort motels nearby.

post #19 of 30

 

In my move to Vermont I checked out a lot of things. I personally prefered Smuggs to Stowe for several reasons (not including the lifts).

On the other hand my final choice was Sugarbush.   

post #20 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayPowHound View Post

Quote:
We recently had the opportunity to ski Stowe and Smuggs back to back. I would be curious as to which mountain the locals prefer as far as :

1. terrain and challenge
2. general vibe ( we noticed this to be quite different in both)
3. type of crowd that the mountain attracts
I lived in the vicinity for about 7 years. I skied the first two seasons at Smuggs, the third at Stowe, and the final four at Jay Peak.


My impressions:

Stowe:
1. Great challenging terrain. Stowe has a LOT of amazing woods and easily accessible "back-country" (Stuff to hike to from the lifts and gondola) to compliment their front four. I really like the terrain at Stowe

2. It depends on who you're with on this one. Stowe has a strong local crowd of rippers and a bunch of fun bars, but the resort attracts a wealthier, "yuppish" type who are not always the most fun to be around.

3. Yuppies and locals.



Smuggs:
1. Good terrain at Smuggs as well, although there are longer hikes required to ski a lot of the best woods there.

2. Smuggs is continuously voted the #1 family resort in the country, and their village and lower mountain reflect this. The upper mountain, however, has more of a local feel without the yuppiness of Stowe.

3. Families and locals.



Jay Peak:
1. Better steeps and trees than either of the above (and lift access to almost all!)

2. Jay Peak "Resort" is small and rather undeveloped. (They have something like 5 toilets for the whole place cuz the lodge is old and small.) It has a very loyal contingent of skiers, many of whom come from Montreal. They get as many tourists from Ontario and Quebec as from the states.

3. Canadians and locals.




OK, so I threw Jay in there because that's where I chose to stay after skiing at each of the other two. They all have excellent terrain, but the stereotypes (which all have roots in reality...) Stowe has Yuppies, Smuggs has Families (ie. loads of little kids) and Jay has Canadians, including many who refuse to admit they can speak English and babble on and on in French while sitting on the knuckle of a jump... sorry, lost it there for a second... Anyways, I don't know which of these you think is worse, but I think the terrain is the best at Jay, and that's why once I skied there I never went back.


jay has more than 5 toilets now, with the new tram house lodge containing new facilities, you don't need to walk downstairs to the WC if you are sitting in the  old cafeteria
 

post #21 of 30

my most trusted local from up there says Sugarbush is the best, and ive heard that alot.

post #22 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidFox View Post

my most trusted local from up there says Sugarbush is the best, and ive heard that alot.


Your friend doesn't like powder???

 

Sugarbush: 265" average

Stowe:        330" average

Jay Peak:   355" average

 

One of these is not like the others. That is a BIG difference.

 

 

post #23 of 30

Stowe vs. Smuggs - I have a friend who's kids are in the same classes as my kids. Her family has always skied at Stowe. Well this year the cost of season passes went up again. Finally broke her and she decided to switch to Smuggs. Long story short, they have gone from being a family that skied together every Sunday to a family that has now only skied twice this year. Both times the kids were ready to give up by lunch time. Main differences were lack of snowmaking (very apparent this year) and the antique lift-system. She says "next year we are skiing at Stowe, or we are just not skiing".

 

Don't shoot the messenger.

post #24 of 30

Well, this thread is making me happy that if after I finish college and don't land a job out west but in the east, I will still be able to find good hard skiing.

post #25 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post

Stowe vs. Smuggs - I have a friend who's kids are in the same classes as my kids. Her family has always skied at Stowe. Well this year the cost of season passes went up again. Finally broke her and she decided to switch to Smuggs. Long story short, they have gone from being a family that skied together every Sunday to a family that has now only skied twice this year. Both times the kids were ready to give up by lunch time. Main differences were lack of snowmaking (very apparent this year) and the antique lift-system. She says "next year we are skiing at Stowe, or we are just not skiing".

 

Don't shoot the messenger.


I have skied Smuggs every other week all winter and have found their snow to be excellent considering the lower storm totals this year.  While it is true that Smuggs does not put much emphasis on grooming (which is one of the reasons I love the place), it is unfair to say their snow is no good just because it is not groomed to perfection.  I have really had a blast in the trees and glades since early January while everyone else sits at home thinking conditions are terrible because there is no snow in their backyards.   

 

As for the lifts...yeah, they're old, they're doubles, and they're slow, but they keep the crowds down up on the hill.  Plus, you get top to bottom runs every time without many flat spots, intersections, or slow skiing areas on the bottom half of the mountain.  I would much rather wait a few minutes longer and take one or two fewer, but higher quality runs, than ski off a high speed quad in the middle of a train of 50 skiers on the same trail. 

 

post #26 of 30

I'm just telling you what she told me. I'm glad you enjoy Smuggs. That's why there are all of these different resorts.

post #27 of 30

397

 

Fresh snow!!

 

 

8.jpg

 

A picture of the ridge I skied later in the day

 

14.jpg\

 

First cliff line I hit at stowe with the narrow run out on the right.

 

I have a lot more shots but I was skiing alone and they're not all that exciting without a skier in frame.

 

 

Thought I'd share my thoughts:

 

Stowe

 

Pros

 

- Access to some really good backcountry as far as east-coast goes

- Great on-piste runs

- Some great glades with powder that can be accessed by chairlift (i.e traversing a ways off chin-clip)

- Apres ski is good

 

Cons

 

- Expensive

- Can be crowded on-piste, but once you get your footing its not hard to find fresh areas

- On piste steeps and moguls get skied over quickly (front four get absolutely mobbed by tourists)

 

Smugglers

 

Pros

 

- Less busy

- Some steeper terrain that is less skied over 

- Quieter feel overall

 

Cons

 

- Harder to access good backcountry

- Two man lifts only that are really slow

- I've seen some incredible ice formations appear on some runs

 

 

EDIT: I forgot to add type of crowd mountains attract. I personally think that Stowe's on-piste double diamonds (i.e Front Four) attract a lot of skiers that shouldn't be skiing them, and it ruins the snow and makes it icy. I find Smuggs to be pretty empty usually but when I run into people, its usually families making pizza turns on Madonna and some of the longer blues. I find other people on the mountain annoying period, so it doesn't really matter to me whether its families or others.

 

I don't have extensive experience with any of the others, but I enjoyed skiing at Sugarbush and Killington. If I had to say overall though, Stowe is your best bet.

 

I personally really did not like Smuggs much at all, but one of my best friends who attends UVM is a coach there and prefers it to Stowe. Overall and looking at it objectively, Stowe has much more to offer and much easier access to 'backcountry', but its more expensive.

post #28 of 30

From the low intermediate perspective:

 

While both have some good areas to learn in, I like Stowe's progression of terrain.  Spruce peak's layout feels like it was designed for training.  Smuggs Morse Highlands is basically a grade school for learning, both logistically and literally.  I found it rather difficult at Smuggs at times with all the little ones there.  Stowe's wide open areas really help when learning.

 

Facilities are opposite ends of the spectrum.  Stowe is big, new, fresh, high quality and high cost.  Smuggs is old, confusing, often aggravating, and high cost.  For lunch $16 will buy you a school cafeteria burger and fries at Smuggs, while the same will buy you a feast for three people at Stowe.  Stowe's free electronic lockers are slick, while I still can't find lockers at Smuggs.  Parking is pretty easy at both.  The vibe is as expected:  Pretty blue collar at Smuggs while very money oriented at Stowe.  Behavior of kids at Stowe was especially strange, most seeming to want to do anything but ski/board.  If you want cool vibe, try Mad River Glen. 

 

For someone trying hard to learn, time on snow is critical.  This really requires a season pass.  Here's where Smuggs kicks Stowe's rich ass.  Stowe:  $1,600 to $1,900  Smuggs: $620.   At least Smuggs and Sugarbush are in line with other big ski areas (e.g. Epic Pass out west), Stowe is just outrageous.  I can literally get a seaon pass at Jay Peak, Sugarbush and Smuggs for the price of one season pass at Stowe. More power to them.  If they don't get cost pressure at that level, so be it.  I believe only Killington was more expensive than Stowe.  For locals, Bolton Valley is probably best bang for buck at $450.

 

Being local (Burlington area), I'm an hour from either Smuggs or Stowe.  I'd like to be at Stowe, and I could do without Smuggs for now.  Perhaps that will change at higher skill levels.

 

 

 

post #29 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by WV3X View Post

Facilities are opposite ends of the spectrum.  Stowe is big, new, fresh, high quality and high cost.  Smuggs is old, confusing, often aggravating, and high cost.  For lunch $16 will buy you a school cafeteria burger and fries at Smuggs, while the same will buy you a feast for three people at Stowe.  Stowe's free electronic lockers are slick, while I still can't find lockers at Smuggs.  Parking is pretty easy at both.  The vibe is as expected:  Pretty blue collar at Smuggs while very money oriented at Stowe.  Behavior of kids at Stowe was especially strange, most seeming to want to do anything but ski/board.  If you want cool vibe, try Mad River Glen. 

 


Most of your post is accurate, but that's a huge stretch. A little plastic container of mixed fruit is $7, I've never skied a resort with food so ridiculously overpriced. Octagon makes really good wraps etc. though, so it doesn't sting as much as it does at Smugg's. 

 

post #30 of 30

Quote:

For someone trying hard to learn, time on snow is critical.  This really requires a season pass.  Here's where Smuggs kicks Stowe's rich ass.  Stowe:  $1,600 to $1,900  Smuggs: $620.   At least Smuggs and Sugarbush are in line with other big ski areas (e.g. Epic Pass out west), Stowe is just outrageous.  I can literally get a seaon pass at Jay Peak, Sugarbush and Smuggs for the price of one season pass at Stowe. More power to them.  If they don't get cost pressure at that level, so be it.  I believe only Killington was more expensive than Stowe.  For locals, Bolton Valley is probably best bang for buck at $450.

 

Actually Killington's season pass early price is "only" $1049... I think these season pass prices are geared towards people who are local - for casual skiers like me, I would have to spend my whole season skiing Stowe to even come close to justifying the season price (and even then, I would fall short - as it stands right now, I'm better off skiing my whole season at Stowe by purchasing either single or multi day passes).

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