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Why does sidecut ALWAYS increase as length decreases?

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
Why do skis always get more sidecut as the length gets shorter? It seems that all brands and all categories of skis reduce the sidecut on longer skis and increase it on the shorter models. Why would a lady who wants a 158-168 all purpose ski want it have more shape than the men’s version of the same ski in a 178-186? Wouldn’t the SHORTER ski be inherently quicker and less stable with the same sidecut? It seems like overkill to me to make a short ski with a lot of sidecut.
post #2 of 11
semantics, 'sidecut' won't change---assuming the tip-mid-tail dim's remain constant, radius will.

in order to maintain any given geometry all the dimensions would have to vary with length.

longer length---all widths wider
shorter length--- all widths narrower

'most' skis do not vary the width dimensions for each length offered, consequently, the radius must change---in the general direction of smaller as length goes down.

go play with Physicsman's radius worksheet (a sticky at the top of this forum)

just reduce the length number in the worksheet from 170 to 100 (for clarity---not usefulness) and watch the radius change from 15.5 to 5 meters, sidecut remains constant.
post #3 of 11
Thread Starter 
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']“in order to maintain any given geometry all the dimensions would have to vary with length.”[/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']I guess this is my point. Why wouldn’t the customer want (expect) the manufacturer to maintain the same geometry?[/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Making the ski shorter or longer is one change. Making it wider or more narrow is another change and changing the relationship between the tip/mid/tail dimensions, which changes the radius, is a third part of the “physics”.[/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Shorter and/or proportionally narrower sound like logical adjustments to compensate for differences in weight and height. Giving it a shorter turning radius does not seem to have anything to do with skier size and weight. Even most of the so-called fat skis have relatively tight turning radius in their shorter ladies sizes. Seems like that would make them less stable when what the shorter ski needs is less radius(?) to make it more stable.[/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Back to the physics; Why automatically a tighter turning radius for shorter-lighter skiers?[/font]
post #4 of 11
I can't read that entire response, sorry.

What I posted was ananswer to the way the original question was posted.

Now, from what I can read of that response, I think I know what you are really asking.

And it is a great question, one that has puzzled me too.

I don't really know the answer to that.

Maybe Mr Tyrone will chime in. Manufacturing issues perhaps??
post #5 of 11
I would think that manufacturers decide on turning radius for the shortest lengths and then as length increases, radius increases.

Makes sense to decrease the radius of a longer ski, since having a 185cm ski with 11m radius would be rather weird.
post #6 of 11
Your initial premise is wrong. Some manufacturers vary width dimensions with length to maintain the same sidecut radius. Others keep the widths constant and allow the sidecut to change. Not clear it's mysterious, assume about how the designers go about maintaining the same turning "feel" and effort for customers large and small, if they assume everybody, on average, is after some mythical medium radius turn. Turn it around: If you keep the sidecut the same, and change the various widths, you're altering float, leverage for getting on edge, stiffness, all kinds of stuff.

Choices, choices...
post #7 of 11
It may also have something to do with manufacturing costs. They don't want to have to design a completely new mold for every length of every ski. When they cut corners we sometimes get weird results.
post #8 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveturner View Post
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']“in order to maintain any given geometry all the dimensions would have to vary with length.”[/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']I guess this is my point. Why wouldn’t the customer want (expect) the manufacturer to maintain the same geometry?[/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Making the ski shorter or longer is one change. Making it wider or more narrow is another change and changing the relationship between the tip/mid/tail dimensions, which changes the radius, is a third part of the “physics”.[/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Shorter and/or proportionally narrower sound like logical adjustments to compensate for differences in weight and height. Giving it a shorter turning radius does not seem to have anything to do with skier size and weight. Even most of the so-called fat skis have relatively tight turning radius in their shorter ladies sizes. Seems like that would make them less stable when what the shorter ski needs is less radius(?) to make it more stable.[/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Back to the physics; Why automatically a tighter turning radius for shorter-lighter skiers?[/font]
Stop using the retarded font, buddy.......you're not that special.
post #9 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomB View Post
I would think that manufacturers decide on turning radius for the shortest lengths and then as length increases, radius increases.

Makes sense to decrease the radius of a longer ski, since having a 185cm ski with 11m radius would be rather weird.

using pm's sidecut calculator:

11M radius @ 185 = 150-75-120 or 145-70-115 or 140-65-110

Add or sub the same amount to each dimension....

A super fat would be 175-100-145

Awesome!
post #10 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post
It may also have something to do with manufacturing costs. They don't want to have to design a completely new mold for every length of every ski. When they cut corners we sometimes get weird results.
They have to make a new mold for every length of ski anyway, don't they? They could change the dimensions on each size if they wanted to and some manufacturers do.
post #11 of 11
I think this is at least part of the reason why some women prefer female specific skis.
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EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › Why does sidecut ALWAYS increase as length decreases?