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Tools and process required for maintaining shop tune

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
I would like to learn how to tune my own skiis and want to start small and gradually take on more steps of the tuning process with time. I would like to begin with maintaining the current shop tune I have.

I recently had my edge bevels reset by a good shop...I had them do a racing tune on my skis so I should now have a 3 degree side and 0.5 degree base bevel. These are not racing skiis and so I will not feel bad if I screw them up. If anything they are worth about $100 now, so they are my learning and experimentation pair.

Before I begin asking specifics about the process I would like to build a list of tools that I will need in order to maintain these edges and their sharpness. Below is what I have compiled based on reading so far and would like some input. Purchased individually this works out to about $200 using some of the popular sites listed in these forums.

*Please comment on my list and make any additions/removals or recommend alternatives that are either more cost effective and of the same quality or just better quality.

1. Beast knife edge true bar. (~$30)
2. Side of beast (w/3 degree). (~60)
3. Base of beast (0.5 degree). (~20)
4. 2 moonflex diamond stones (200 grit and 600 grit). (~27 ea for 4")
5. Arkansas translucent polishing stone? (~23)
6. Some kind of cutting fluid for the stones (~5)
7. Brake retainers (~5)
8. Fine Gummi stone (~5)
9. Wire brush to keep stones and tools clean of filings. (~5)

Questions:
What length stones should I get so they fit the beasts? I noticed there are 2.75" pocket ones and 4" workshop ones? I am guessing the workshop ones are meant for the Beast but can you get away with the smaller ones to save money?
post #2 of 17
forget the base guide, you don't need to file your base edges, you'll only screw up the bevel if you do. forget the true bar. get a file, either a bastard or 2nd cut mill. the 200 grit diamond stone is all you really need, get the 4 inch, as it is pretty small itself. cutting fluid = water. brake retainers = big rubber bands. side of beast is a good choice, as is the svst edge guide. you don't really need an arkansas stone, but you'll probably find them cheaper at a knife shop than a ski shop. some kind of sidewall planer is a good idea as well, or you can try to shim a pansar file on your edge guide to get the right angle.
post #3 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by epl View Post
forget the base guide, you don't need to file your base edges, you'll only screw up the bevel if you do. forget the true bar. get a file, either a bastard or 2nd cut mill. the 200 grit diamond stone is all you really need, get the 4 inch, as it is pretty small itself. cutting fluid = water. brake retainers = big rubber bands. side of beast is a good choice, as is the svst edge guide. you don't really need an arkansas stone, but you'll probably find them cheaper at a knife shop than a ski shop. some kind of sidewall planer is a good idea as well, or you can try to shim a pansar file on your edge guide to get the right angle.
I will note the water and rubber bands.

I read that your supposed to use a very fine stone on the base edge such as the 600 grit diamond or a polishing stone - I was going to use the BOB to maintain that 0.5 degree angle as I polish the edge.

I see you also mention a sidewall planer and files - how soon will I need to do this kind of cutting after a new shop base grind and race tune? I don't plan on resetting my edge angles at this time, I just want to maintain them. I thought I could get away with using stones for a while until I got enough dings that I would have to start filing and removing sidewall.
post #4 of 17
you will probably need to remove some sidewall material right from the start, it's not absolutely necessary, but having your diamond stone get clogged up with plastic is annoying. the problem with filing the base edge is that you can't remove material from it without either increasing the bevel or removing base material. for recreational skiing, a 600 grit stone is overkill. it's not going to hurt anything, but i think it is a waste of money. after filing/polishing the side, you can remove any hanging burr freehand with the diamond stone by very lightly running it at an angle to the edge. a few passes with the diamond stone every day you ski should be enough to keep the edges sharp unless you hit a rock, and the diamond stone doesn't really create a burr. i think the file is more useful than the 600 grit stone though. you may have to use the file at first so the bevel matches your edge guide, the shop tune may not be the same 3 degrees that your edge guide is.
post #5 of 17
Thread Starter 
Ok, I guess I need to wait until I get the skiis back to see how much sidewall they removed. If they took it back quite a bit then I may not need to worry about a planer for now (I would prob go panzer route). I believe my sides were either 1 or 2 degrees so I know they had to remove some sidewall to get to 3.

But assuming there is a decent amount of edge exposed and I'm not hitting sidewall anymore - I would use a bastard file to match the existing 3 degree bevel to the nuances of my 3 degree bevel tool and then make some passes with the 200 grit diamond optionally followed by a polishing stone?

I read 8" is good length for bastard mill - why is it recommended to be longer than say 4" for the stones and panzer?
post #6 of 17
yeah, that's pretty much the procedure. i'm guessing 8 inches for the file, because that is a commonly available size. diamond stones get a lot more expensive as the size increases. if you want to save some money, you could go with silicon carbide or aluminum oxide stones in a similar grit. your edges won't know the difference.
post #7 of 17
Thread Starter 
What is the difference between a bastard mill and second cut? Are they course and fine in that order?
post #8 of 17
2nd cut is a little finer than bastard, the order goes rough - coarse - bastard - 2nd cut - smooth - dead smooth
post #9 of 17
Thread Starter 
So if I was going to buy a Swix file, would their medium cut be equivalent to something in between the 2nd cut and smooth cut that you described?

http://www.the-raceplace.com/files_swix.html

I guess what I am looking for now is a common measure to compare across manufacturers. For example will a bastard file always have 13 teeth /cm despite what the company names the product? If so can you list a rough breakdown of the number of teeth/cm for each type that you described?
post #10 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonb018 View Post
So if I was going to buy a Swix file, would their medium cut be equivalent to something in between the 2nd cut and smooth cut that you described?

http://www.the-raceplace.com/files_swix.html

I guess what I am looking for now is a common measure to compare across manufacturers. For example will a bastard file always have 13 teeth /cm despite what the company names the product? If so can you list a rough breakdown of the number of teeth/cm for each type that you described?
i'm not sure why that site has them labeled like that, every swix 2nd cut file that i have seen is labeled "2nd cut". according to the swix site, their 2nd cut has 16 teeth per centimeter, so that would be the "medium cut" on the race place page. i don't think there is any standard for the number of teeth per cm, the grades are relative within the manufacturers line.
post #11 of 17
Pick up a bag of #84 rubber bands at Staples or any other office supply store for ~$1.99 and you will be set with brake retainers for years. 50/50 Water + denatured alcohol for cutting fluid kept benchside in a tupperware bowl. Make sure the bowl is deep enough to submerge your stones and that you have a top for when you are finished. Keep an old toothbrush to clean your stones and then store them dry.
post #12 of 17
Thread Starter 
Ok so my revised list is as follows. Let me know thoughts.

1) Swix 8" Chrome Bastard
2) Swix Side Edge Bevel Guide 3 degree
3) Swix Diamond File 4" (200 grit or 400?)
4) Bag of #84 rubber bands
5) Denatured alcohol
6) Arkansas Translucent Stone 4"
7) Spring clamp
8) Fine gummi stone (Is this necessary?)
post #13 of 17

Tools

I would also consider the moonflex diamond stones as an alternative. I love mine. I like the 100MM length but I don't carry them in my pocket. I only use them on the bench.



I have not used the swix but the look pretty good though.

I let the shop do the sidewall plane. Since you do it so infrequently.

The gummi is nice to have. It gets rust off and you can detune the sharp edge by getting small serrations off.

I assume you are going to use the diamond stone first and then polish with the Arkansas?
post #14 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuhl View Post
I assume you are going to use the diamond stone first and then polish with the Arkansas?
Yes that is what I am planning on doing, although I read that diamond stones cut and polish at the same time. So does Arkansas just give it a really fine polish?
post #15 of 17

arkansas stone

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonb018 View Post
Yes that is what I am planning on doing, although I read that diamond stones cut and polish at the same time. So does Arkansas just give it a really fine polish?
yeah ; read about them here

http://www.hallsproedge.com/pocket_stones.htm

and here

http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Oi...FUtyOAodwn-IGQ

I have the black one. I start with 200,400,600 moonflex and then go to the Arkansas stone I then finish off with a SVT ceramic stone which is total overkill but I just love these tools and working on metal edges ( I am a bit of a knife junkie as well). But I truly believe the smoother the edge the smoother the ride. There is gratification from working on something like that then spending the day riding on it.:
post #16 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuhl View Post

and There is gratification from working on something like that then spending the day riding on it.:
I agree, although I'm not at the point where I want to drop a ton of money on a moonflex set. I'm just looking for the minimum to get the job done and eventually build my tool set.
post #17 of 17

diamond

yeah just start with a 200 or 400 and then add the others as you pick up the $.

check out the SVST guides;they are sweet.



http://www.svst.com/
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