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Edelwiser "Swing" 162cm Review

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 
First quick review (more to come):

Edelwiser:
Swing
2007-2008
125-80-114 12.1m radius @ 162cm

[click here for large pic]

Manufacturer Info:
Edelwiser Sporthandel GmbH
Julius Tandler Platz 6/4
1090 Vienna/Austria
http://edelwiser.com

Edelwiser USA
P.O. Box 4261
Aspen, CO. 81611
Contact: Max Werdenigg

(970) 987-8555
http://edelwiser.com

Suggested Retail Price (MSRP):
$750 usd (Greenhorn)
$700 usd (Newbie)
$650 usd (Member)

Custom grahics services @ $110 /hour
OR
Upload your own graphics !
(Illustrator or EPS template downloads you can modify)

See custom graphics examples (corporate branding)

Usage Class:
Intermediate to advanced predominantly on-piste

Your Rating (with comments):
(1="get me off these things"->10="I have to own a pair")


9 - A really, really easy-to-carve, versatile frontside ski that hooks up nicely along its extremely large sweet-spot and can give any level skier great feedback underfoot. Surprising grip on hard surfaces for such an easy-skiing ski. Highly recommended for its intended audience. Not a race ski or suitable for muscle-skiers who will overpower it.


Summary:
This model is consistently a top-ranked carving ski by the folks over at http://www.carving-ski.de , and I now I can see why. I would hesitate to put a 250 lb person on this ski since their sheer weight may overpower the ski. They may be better suited to the "Speed" model (to be tested soon!). The large shovel may be a hindrence in tight bumps, but then again, this is not a bump ski. Excellent all-mountain ski. I got feedback from two people (one Instructor and one twin-tip teenager) who both said "Hey...these skis are FUN." They both felt immediately at home on the ski. That says something about the design. This ski is not an "extreme carver", but more of a recreational carver capable of great turns with very little effort in many kinds of snow. Probably an excellent "everyone" ski due to its very low footpressure requirement, and very responsive nature. It reminded me a little of the Palmer P02 carving ski, but more forgiving in deeper or more variable snow conditions, and less "race turn" oriented...more "happy cruising" than "crank-it over" (if that makes any sense to you). Despite what I just said, this ski can lay down serious trenches in the groomed surfaces if you want. Far more agile and capable of extreme angles than you would imagine. Very interesting. I can't wait to try the "Speed" model.

Special note about Edelwiser and Custom Graphics Services:

Edelwiser is one of the more innovative marketing companies in the ski industry. They have developed an "on-demand" ski manufacturing process where you can submit your graphic files via Internet to create your own "brand" of ski. You can get your own single pair customized with your own design or several pairs with your corporate, shop or group branding (special pricing for 3+ pairs) to look like no other skis out there. The Edelwiser brand name is nearly hidden in a tiny little logo box no one will really see. Your ski school, company, association, hotel, ski shop, ski club or poker buddies could get their own fleet of custom-topsheet Edelwiser skis. Edelwiser pushes Business-To-Business marketing via branding of skis and offers a reward program for people who get their friends to buy skis...


Three price levels: greenhorn, newbie and member.
Greenhorns are persons who buy a Edelwiser without any connection to a previous customer.
Newbies do not have a Edelwiser ski yet but they know somebody who does - so if they buy the ski using the promotional code of the person they know, they get 50 dollars off the greenhorn price, while the member whose code has been used recieves a bonus of 30 snowflakes (1 snowflake equals one euro) which he can use on his next purchase of an Edelwiser product. Members already have a ski and get 100 dollars off the greenhorn price.


Ski Designer:

Original design: Reinhard Fischer (SnowRiders), refined by Nicola Werdenigg (former worldcup and olympic downhill racer) and Erwin Werdenigg at Edelwiser (company started in 2004)
Core ski design is licensed and manufactured by Edelwiser using its "on-demand" customization factory technology and material specifications.


Technical Ski Data:
Ash wood core (riverbank species stored for 1 year, then vacuum dried to 6-8% moisture content), fiberglass & titanal sandwich with "racing base".


Pre-Skiing Impression:
A soft-flexing ski with "extended shovel" sidecut geometry having a broad and gradual forebody, narrow waist and wide heel. Nicely damp, not much snap to it but definitely responsive. More "civilized control" than "rowdy rebound." Nice finish work on the base, edges and laminations. Topsheet graphic layer is matte (non glossy) and appears durable and easy to keep in good condition. Good base grind pattern and tuning (this pair was virgin out of the box). Definitely different geometry than most mid-level carvers out there. Not your typical "Austrian" race-bred design or flex pattern.
Note: This demo pair had "Skiquita" graphics (see pics) designed by the Edelwiser people for their introduction into North America. Let's just say they are "playful" and a color you normally don't see on skis (anymore) ! Cool thing is....it gets you thinking about what you would do for your own graphics.

Test Conditions:
First test day: Re-groomed, reprocessed old ice storm junk ground into a few centimeters of "Frozen Granular" (loose and packed) on top of yellow hardpan with sections of some death cookies and death cookie crumbs mixed in. Some really nice dense corn in the sun, deadly pock-marked rotten snow ice fields off piste (you could bounce a bowling ball across it). Not bad, but not packed-powder either....good test for a ski's "friendly behavior" tendencies and carving prowess across different materials.


Analogies: (this ski is like...)
This ski is like an old freind you are always comfortable to be with who makes instant new friends on first impression. Easy to handle no matter what the situation, reliable and requires no effort to coax into having lots of fun...sometimes more extremely than you had planned. Playful and always smiling, but not willing to go into bar fights with race-pace muscle heads. Despite giving the impression as a "softie", this ski can lay down some serious angular gymnastics on the groomed slopes that will surprise you....kind of like seeing your old friend do a back flip, or drive a sports car really, really well through some tight corners....("I didn't know you could do THAT!...let's do it again...")


After Skiing These, I Want To...
Get some intermediates skiers off their older-model skis and watch them ride these and quickly discover smooth carving with half the effort. Then tell them they can have their dog's photos on the topsheets if they want.


Self-Description of Skiing Style, Ability, Experience, Preferences (be honest):

5' 11", 190 lbs. Expert groomed-surface carver, "old-style" race inspired, "foot steerer" with fairly sensitive edging feel. Loves to hold long arcs with lots of pressure on the downhill ski (you know the type), but also loves the feel of both skis on-edge leaving tiny railroad track edge tracks. Not an instructor, but 10 year coach for youth race team in New England (bulletproof is the norm).


More reviews by other folks will be getting posted over at:
http://www.exoticskis.com/forum/defa...x?g=posts&t=39

post #2 of 26
Thread Starter 
Forgot to mention....We should have a review of the "Speed" model (127-80-117 14.1m radius @ 172cm €590) in February.

Max Werdenigg said he might have a "prototype 182cm" to try also...stay tuned!
post #3 of 26
I skied the 162 Swing during the Epicski Academy.

Comments:
--immediate comfort and predictablity in the front of the ski. It carved very nicely and predictably. The flex of the forebody seemed to be a really nice smooth curve that held shape all the way through.
--it felt like the classic "vertical sidewall" ski. Very strong on the edge, and very trustworthy.
--If I used it teaching, I'm not sure I wouldn't give it a touch more bottom bevel (I'm not sure how much it had). It felt a little harsh in the transition through flat at VERY slow speed. But once up to speed it was magic.
--I was very surprised that a ski this wide underfoot would ski with the same "feel" as a narrower ski. This makes me think it would also be quite good in soft snow.
--Seemed to have the quickness of it's length, but the stability on the platform of a longer ski.

Thanks, Max. It is really a nice ski. I'm thinking about what I want for graphics.
post #4 of 26
Why is Edelwiser spelled like that. Isn't the word edelweiss? Therefore edelweisser? School me, Max!
post #5 of 26

good question

well, first it is supposed to refer to our most important value: quality
and since edel means that in English it's a pretty good hit.
the word wiser should refer to a smart business model for intelligent customers .
and after all it also connects the brand to it's origin: the alps

post #6 of 26
I also skied the 162 Swing during the EpicSki Academy.

This is a Euro-carver ski, for sure. It likes to be on edge, rips an arc, and is best on groomed. A couple runs on the 162 demonstrated an ability to go from arc to arc in very tight turns. At the highest speeds, it was a bit nervous at the tip for me (175 lbs at probably 45mph or so, arcing on the Big Burn at Snowmass).
post #7 of 26
I demoed a pair of the 172 carvers for half a day at the Epic meetup at Solitude.

The 172 was very smooth and craved great. This is exactly the ski I would want for cruising around a hill at a variety so speeds and hitting some groomers, bumps, or light crud while taking it easy.

I thought the ski was similar to my Metron B5s which I skied in a 172 and have the same radius as well. The main differences were much better low speed performance and smoothness. This led to a more relaxed ski experience and much better bump performance. I also thought the Edelweiser was a more lively ski where at times the 172 B5 felt relatively dead.

To me this is exactly the kind of change up ski that I would want for taking it easy after killing it in the off piste for a couple of days.

Max, it was great meeting you and skiing with you!
post #8 of 26
Thread Starter 
I think tromano hit it right on the head....the Edelwiser, while able to carve all kinds of radii nicely, really handles very easy at slow speeds too and makes an excellent "change up" ski after pushing yourself in tough terrain or race-pace turns all day. This becomes very apparent after skiing them for several days in different conditions while testing other skis.

Many "carvers" really feel balky and over-damp at low speed, then "come alive" at their optimal threshold speed...The SnowRider design of the Edelwiser allows the ski to handle silky at slow speeds (Instructors who subscribe to the "1-2-3, ski like me" school of teaching...take note!), yet lay down some nice arcs at different radii as you rev it up to cruising speed...hitting some bumps and different snow conditions along the way without so much as a tremor underfoot. My only reservation is the distinctive upper-speed limit and shyness of the "Swing" model on true-blue boilerplate surfaces...but then again, this model is not aimed at warp-speed race-like carving on bulletproof surfaces...the "Speed" model is intended for that duty...

Pretty cool....AND I could get my own custom topsheet design on a pair by sending a graphic file over the Internet to the Edelwiser site.

I really like all their corporate makeups here.
post #9 of 26
I am very intrigued by the type of ski this seems to be. Is the 172 "speed" an entirely different construction and type/level of ski or is it just longer. Is the handling/performance level kicked up a notch?
post #10 of 26
Wise...Wiser...Edelwiser...Budweiser?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swing View Post
well, first it is supposed to refer to our most important value: quality
and since edel means that in English it's a pretty good hit.
the word wiser should refer to a smart business model for intelligent customers .
and after all it also connects the brand to it's origin: the alps

post #11 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by allan o'neil View Post
I am very intrigued by the type of ski this seems to be. Is the 172 "speed" an entirely different construction and type/level of ski or is it just longer. Is the handling/performance level kicked up a notch?
I demoed the 172 which is the speed. Max told me that the skis are basically the same constructions just a different length and slightly different shape. Both are Slalom carvers.

I also demoed the twintip in a 170. It has a profile of 124/77/110 and a 16m radius. I think it would make a superb bump ski. It has a similar feel to the speed, but it is lighter, has no metal but is still smooth.
post #12 of 26
Thread Starter 
The "Swing" is 125-80-114 12.16m radius @ 162cm
The "Speed" is 127-80-117 14.17m radius @ 172cm

The Edelwiser site indicates construction is the same on the two carving models...wood core, titanal...

Did anyone see the 182cm "prototype" rumored to be in Max's luggage?
post #13 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by weems View Post
Wise...Wiser...Edelwiser...Budweiser?
As a european (especially as a neighbor of Czech Republic) don't particularly think that the words budwiser and wise have anything in common apart from their spelling..
post #14 of 26
Good morning America,

I have been skiing the Edelwiser Swing now for nearly 50 days and also had the possibility to compare several times with the Speed. For me the Swing is the perfect "all-day-all-mountain-carver".

The decision going for a Edelwiser Swing was perfect for me. It`s an easy to handle carver not comparable with a SL with similar radius. I needed to modify my technique a little to get full response by my Swing which is a certain question of timing. You need to let the ski turn by itself. You need to be a little more patient compared to other short turn skis before the Swing soaks into the turns. If you get the right feeling for the timings the Swings develops a great dynamic in short as well as wider turns. Do not get confused by the radius of 12m. Its also great in mid- and wider carves.

For real high speed carving the "Speed" might be the better choice but you will loose a little of light fun handling compared to the Swing. Best conditions for the Swing are clearly soft snow conditions which I love and "not-perfect" slope conditions where the ski pulls throught with ease.

The Speed is sometimes a little "too-much-ski" for me especially in the afternoon when the snow and slope conditions get worse and my personal condition as well.....

Cheers

Christoph-Wien

P.S.: Servus Max. Hope all OK! :
post #15 of 26

200lbs, level 7+

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExoticSkis View Post
The "Swing" is 125-80-114 12.16m radius @ 162cm
I skied this ski at Solitude for 5 afternoon runs on blue-green frontside terrain after Max made sure none of the group had ski poles. The snow was light and fluffy bumps on top of soft packed hero snow.

First impressions:

Immediately as I put the skis on, I could very clearly feel the skis' camber through the boot. If I lifted the boot off the ground, there was a sensation of flexing back. The tips felt like they were looking for the snow.

Skating to the lift, the mounting position on the ski felt like it was a little too far behind the tips. I needed to be quite far forward on this ski. Indeed, the skis felt like there was no way for me to be too far forward. I didn't like this at first, though I think the design probably contributes to both the stability of the skis and the feel of the ski tips.

Edging was slower than expected, probably due to the waist size and probably due to my own expectations of about 15mm lift on a ski with this much sidecut. I did tell Max that I would have loved to try an 8-10m sidecut model.

Ongoing impressions, 3rd and subsequent runs:

Very nicely balanced torsional and longitudinal flex. The skis could have been -very- hooky at the tips in the soft snow we had; they were not.

Very damp response could make use of big skier inputs (I was trying to skate downhill including very large lateral steps or lunges) or almost none at all.

I still want one of these in a 10m or smaller radius, maybe with a fatter tail. This thing could be superb on Eastern hills, especially in frozen bumps.


Overall:

Excellent choice for anyone who isn't happy on very variable snow. Anyone looking to buy, or currently skiing and not quite happy on, Metron 10s or Zenith Z5s should demo this ski.

Not a ski that will reward back-seat habits.
Not a ski that will enjoy being lifted off the ground, though it won't punish it either.

Quote:
Did anyone see the 182cm "prototype" rumored to be in Max's luggage?
Ahem, yes. ::

Edit: Good morning, Cristoph!
post #16 of 26
I skied the Swing at Snowmass and completely enjoyed the strong arcs it could carve at speed. It behaved well as slower speeds and I had no trouble slipping the edges into old-school type turns, but the ski comes alive making deep trenches, and no speed felt bad. Max took my poles away for a run and it was even better. I definitely had a smile on my face from these skis and would not hesitate to add this high quality sandwich construction ski to my quiver. All we need to do now is get an EpicSki price?

Max with the Swing and Speed....very versitile.



In the steep



Deep (photo Bob Peters)



Groomed



Thanks Max and Nicola.
post #17 of 26
@Max: Poles also forbidden in powder! Otherwise I will tell your mum......
post #18 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christoph-Wien View Post
@Max: Poles also forbidden in powder! Otherwise I will tell your mum......
he doesnt use them anyways
post #19 of 26
I skied these yellow banana at the Valentines Day Demo at Sugarbush. Interesting ski, not the "hyper carver" I was expecting (thinking an Elan SCX in a 163 stacked), that ski was "hyper", this was much smoother with still being able to hold arc. I found the ski entered and held the arc real nice but didn't have the power exiting the turn as powerful as I was expecting. I did find the speed limit, nit sure exactly what MPH, but on the harder eastern snow, I would say it was about 30ish MPH. Still this is a real mid level carver for someone who wants to play but not get beat up by a race SL.
post #20 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
I skied these yellow banana at the Valentines Day Demo at Sugarbush. Interesting ski, not the "hyper carver" I was expecting (thinking an Elan SCX in a 163 stacked), that ski was "hyper", this was much smoother with still being able to hold arc. I found the ski entered and held the arc real nice but didn't have the power exiting the turn as powerful as I was expecting. I did find the speed limit, nit sure exactly what MPH, but on the harder eastern snow, I would say it was about 30ish MPH. Still this is a real mid level carver for someone who wants to play but not get beat up by a race SL.
Phil, Did you try the 172 cm? I think you would have really liked those.

Interestingly, Max also advocates no binding lift on their skis.

*note to ExoticSkis - The link is not going to the Edelwiser site
post #21 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattL View Post
*note to ExoticSkis - The link is not going to the Edelwiser site
These links should get you there...

Edelwiser Site:
http://www.Edelwiser.com

Gallery of corporate graphic examples:
http://www.edelwiser.com/de/skis/bus...itions/kunden/
post #22 of 26

Mid level carver

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
......Still this is a real mid level carver for someone who wants to play but not get beat up by a race SL.
I had the possibilty to ski the Swing, Speed and also Firnis 170 for 6 days changing every day in Heiligenblut/Carinthia/Austria. For me the Swing is not a mid-level caver. It can be a mid-level carver but skied with higher speed and power input it develops high-level carving skills. Especially on steeper slopes it allows you high power carves with controlled speed. I especially like the short radius possibilities mid to end of the carve which pushes you out of the turn smoothly but still very much explosive.

Cheers Christoph

Firnis 170 and Speed review coming up.....
post #23 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christoph-Wien View Post
I had the possibilty to ski the Swing, Speed and also Firnis 170 for 6 days changing every day in Heiligenblut/Carinthia/Austria. For me the Swing is not a mid-level caver. It can be a mid-level carver but skied with higher speed and power input it develops high-level carving skills. Especially on steeper slopes it allows you high power carves with controlled speed. I especially like the short radius possibilities mid to end of the carve which pushes you out of the turn smoothly but still very much explosive.

Cheers Christoph

Firnis 170 and Speed review coming up.....
I've been remiss in not adding my own review on the Swing. I skied Max's pair at the Snowbasin industry thing on Feb 4. I skied it mostly on powder and cut-up snow, but made some turns on the groomers as well.

That 162 is a very short ski for me (6'1", 195#) in powder but I really liked it. The relatively wide shovel helps the ski come up really nicely as you come into the weighted portion of the turn.

I felt very comfortable on this ski (actually, I loved it) in pretty much everything I skied. It was another one of those skis that just felt "good" as soon as I hopped on it. It has that smooth, powerful feeling that I associate with Austrian skis.

I very much liked the progressive nature of the turns. It felt like just a little touch of forward weighting would really engage the front of the ski at the start of a turn. From there, I could just lay them over to whatever degree I felt like and they would come around.

Phil, I didn't find anything that I felt was a speed limit, but I suppose that could be because our snow wasn't very hard. I skied it pretty fast, however, and it was just totally solid.

All in all, I felt it was a very fun ski and I can see why Max likes it so much.
post #24 of 26
Bob
I also like them so much!
Christoph
post #25 of 26

Change of verdict

Sorry guys (and girls),

I need to change my verdict.

Finally I am going for the Speed!
I do love my Swing but due to problems of my Rossi Axial 2 breaker (French technique...seems to be a contradiction in itself) I needed to take a Speed iso my Swing.

Final Verdict: Speed! due to technical knock out on higher speeds, grip and deep snow/powder conditions.

Cheeeers Christoph :
post #26 of 26
Thread Starter 
OK...Christoph,

Let us see your graphic design for your new Edelwiser "Speed" skis!

What will your new skis look like?

(I really love the idea of getting your own topsheet design on your skis...now, if only I had any graphic skills and wasn't colorblind...) The collection of custom designs on the Edelwiser website from artists and businesses is kinda staggering...

The BlueHouse ski guys ran a contest for their new look, and people had some great designs....fun stuff:

http://www.bluehouseskis.com/design_contest.php
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