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MA in the bumps

post #1 of 33
Thread Starter 
Any suggestions on things to work on?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQe8hW-aZRU
post #2 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by maninthemoon View Post
Any suggestions on things to work on?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQe8hW-aZRU
Im no bump expert and not qualified for giving any sort of MA but I think your skiing looks great. What you need to do however is to find a way of posting the video in the original 16:9 format. Now it looks squashed and that takes away 50% of the action IMHO. Check out www.topeverything.com as an option. Streched it would look even better.

Its hard to determine how well you ski in this bump clip since I have no reference. You have given me little to go on so I have no ide what the base was like, if the light was flat, how you felt skiing it etc. From what I see without knowing any better and apart from that I think its great upper level all mountain bump skiing I would say that you need to eather start reacting better to the terrain or simply adjusting yourself more to the terrain in order to make your skiing more controlled. Do not only turn to change direction, turn to controll your speed. I see that in your skiing on flats as well. More flexing and extending and proper use of ski rebound will slow you down and make it a bit easier. Once you have reached controll, speed it up a bit. On the other hand, clinical controlled bump skiing is the worst thing on earth. Its supposed to be hitting the limits and being out of controll, IMHO offcourse. Other than that I think you ski it well because I suspect the conditions are not great. Good work. Thanks for sharing.
post #3 of 33
TDK6,

Why do you suspect the conditions were not great?? It looks like lots of big piles of soft snow...pretty darn great for bump skiing (IMHO).

man in the moon-just a curiosity-what do you think needs work in your bump skiing-you're obviously a pretty solid bump skier (in the rounder turn-non wc mode)?
post #4 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam View Post
TDK6,
Why do you suspect the conditions were not great?? It looks like lots of big piles of soft snow...pretty darn great for bump skiing (IMHO).
Big piles of soft snow on what??? Also, I see the bumps are not evenly spaced and shaped. I know they never are but I suppose the man in the moon will get us updated before too long. Light and vision are important when you ski bumps. Flat light will spoil it for you big time. Big problem at WC mogul and ski jumping events.
post #5 of 33
Looks like your poles are too short? Am I wrong?
post #6 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrooK View Post
Looks like your poles are too short? Am I wrong?
Good comment, poles are usually never too long....
post #7 of 33
Oh man,

That just looks like a ton of fun. Why would you want to work on anything? I could be anal retentive if you like, but it's really not necessary.
post #8 of 33
Maninthemoon, "You got it like that". Enjoyed watching your vid. What are you skiing on out of curisosity?
post #9 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post
Big piles of soft snow on what??? Also, I see the bumps are not evenly spaced and shaped. I know they never are but I suppose the man in the moon will get us updated before too long. Light and vision are important when you ski bumps. Flat light will spoil it for you big time. Big problem at WC mogul and ski jumping events.

Man-you must get perfect sunny conditions all winter long in finland on top of bottomless soft snow (and maybe you do-I've never skied in Finland-but if that's the case sign me up for trip!).

There was a lot of soft snow in that video-that's all it takes to make bumps pleasant-even if down below it's hard (most of the time around here the bumps are just hard-but with a minimal amount of fluff they liven up considerable-with the amount of snow getting pushed around by man in the moon-I'd say the bumps looked delightful).

I think the rusty said it best--looks like he's having a ton of fun showing some solid skill-just still wondering what he wants to work on.
post #10 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam View Post
Man-you must get perfect sunny conditions all winter long in finland on top of bottomless soft snow (and maybe you do-I've never skied in Finland-but if that's the case sign me up for trip!).

There was a lot of soft snow in that video-that's all it takes to make bumps pleasant-even if down below it's hard (most of the time around here the bumps are just hard-but with a minimal amount of fluff they liven up considerable-with the amount of snow getting pushed around by man in the moon-I'd say the bumps looked delightful).

I think the rusty said it best--looks like he's having a ton of fun showing some solid skill-just still wondering what he wants to work on.
You must have missed my first posting where I write "Im no bump expert and not qualified for giving any sort of MA..." Anyway, just because there is a lot of snow it doesent mean that the bumps are ok. And yes, we have the best bump skiers in the world !
post #11 of 33
Thread Starter 
Conditions where excellent. Fluff and big bumps with plenty of light. Uneven and lots of covered in bumps which I was attempting to hit for the fun factor.

Skis are 2005 Magfire 10s. Bloody good zippy bump ski and all mountain hacker. Not so good for big open meadows.

I reckon I need to get fitter, get some more core strength, to go harder and\or drop out and become a ski bum.

On a technique note I reckon could ski taller with a straighter back and use more calf\thigh muscle with less waist flexing. The feet are doing okay but the body above is struggling to keep up and I have to drive the hands forward to do the little re-centering thing too much.

Do ya reckon I am still old school or have I got the new school moves happening? It has been an interesting road from old school to new school.

I am interested in all comments as it is a bugger to get any decent critic these days without joining a camp or finding a demo team guru to ski with.
post #12 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post
Good comment, poles are usually never too long....
Except in the bumps.
post #13 of 33
I think you've got a lot of good skills to work with already and like the deliberate application you show of them.

I see a few moments where you bend at the waist due to bump impact which may be due to core strength - but I think this can be more easily fixed with a line choice and technique variation than with sit-ups.

As you decend the bumps you seem to take a very straight line from one bump-face to the next - not only with your upper body but with ski track as well. If you deliberately initiate each new turn directly at the next bump-face you'll invariably strike that next bump face with a lot of force.

If instead you allow the skis to continue across the slope just a little bit further (after impact) and then scarve the skis out & around - and and back into the next bump-face (more from the side) I think you'll find this will reduce each impact and smooth out the overall ride.

Scarving the skis rather than letting them twist and slip will also reduce downslope acceleration quite a bit, further reducing each impact.

.ma
post #14 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by maninthemoon View Post
Do ya reckon I am still old school or have I got the new school moves happening? It has been an interesting road from old school to new school.
What exatly sets new school and old school apart in your opinion? What are you trying to do in your video that is new?
post #15 of 33
Awesome skiing.....only comment, stand up...You are the King....let everone know.

There was great flexion and extension...if you stand taller, you will even have more room.
post #16 of 33
post #17 of 33
that looked fun!!!

strong hands, strong upper body looking down the falline, precise feet, and good speed control/maintaining speed.

Your a great bump skier already(well at least in these powder hero bumps) so if I was you I would read the next paragraph...

you have some turn shape up high, but it could be better. as your legs extend away from you body think about how far you can reach them out there(to the sides) and use the skis rebound to cause your retraction and to get the skis out just as wide for the next turn.
post #18 of 33
Thread Starter 
Okay, old school, new school.

I learnt to ski back in the 80s when lots of up n down action was the way to go. When I came back to skiing in 2000 I hooked up with a cool guy that was heavily into PMTS. Now I am not a convert to any one form or another but the ideas behind “the phantom move” sounded interesting and he explained and demonstrated them well so I started giving it a go and adding a little more wide stance and integrating the old “down motion” that I was pretty good at along with the old “up motion” when required.

Add some shorter wider and more shaped skis, a lot of dinking around the hill and playing with things and I end up where I am now. I could never get any satisfaction out of Ski School high end lessons or clinics. Just a lot of “oh yeh” and some edge exercises so I sort of gave up on that avenue. The PMTS stuff allowed some breakthroughs to happen in regards to smoothing things out and better turn initiations and active inside foot. It also removed the lazy stem from the equation.

My on piste carve turns are generally pretty tight with lots of cross under but I tend to fall to the inside sometimes when I am not concentrating and according to the same guy "rush" my turn initiations.

So do I have to get even more new school, am I missing something in the integration process or should I just get some lungs and some legs and go have fun?
post #19 of 33
Thread Starter 
Here is some dinking around carve stuff. Flattish terrain and not a lot of speed. Having loose fun rather than trying for too much technique

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npNfJdHAb94
post #20 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by maninthemoon View Post
Here is some dinking around carve stuff. Flattish terrain and not a lot of speed. Having loose fun rather than trying for too much technique

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npNfJdHAb94
again strong skiing but not as strong as the first clip.

alot of good stuff going on here but the one thing i notice that is going on that shouldnt be is your bending at the waist, this is be caused by seemingly no ankle flex going on at all. The breaking at the waist is also causing you not to move you COM down the hill very effectively.

solition - 1st try to focus on bending those an you cross under turns(which those were) do it by lifting your toes driving your knee forward or both, I am pretty sure you have heard it before. If this alone doesnt work try getting a softer boot than what you have now so you can actually bend them, IMO you cna bend them because in the bumps videos you have ankle flexion and extenstion.
post #21 of 33
Thread Starter 
I though new school was more lateral ankle than flexing ankle? i.e. roll onto the edge from the lower leg.
post #22 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by maninthemoon View Post
I though new school was more lateral ankle than flexing ankle? i.e. roll onto the edge from the lower leg.
new school or old school it doesnt matter what works, works. If your going to flex your knees, your ankles must flex equally. If you dont flex your ankles you bend at the waist(the energy has to go some where) which gets your COM aft of where is should be untill you really have to try to get forward. herky jerky skiing. It really is a simple solution just flex those ankles in the transtion and those turns will be alot better.
post #23 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by maninthemoon View Post
I though new school was more lateral ankle than flexing ankle? i.e. roll onto the edge from the lower leg.
You ahve to learn how to seperate the wheat from the chaff here. You're on a low angle flat, you're not breaking at the waist and you are tipping and turning fine. When the people giving you the advice can't make the movements themselves and can't and have never skied at your level then it's silly to listen to them.
post #24 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by volklskier1 View Post
You ahve to learn how to seperate the wheat from the chaff here. You're on a low angle flat, you're not breaking at the waist and you are tipping and turning fine. When the people giving you the advice can't make the movements themselves and can't and have never skied at your level then it's silly to listen to them.
did you not watch the video? he could of stood much taller and his hips more forward. ankle flexion would of helped there. He was doing alot of right, but like myself it doesnt mean he cant improve.

Volklskier1 what are your creditials and where are those pictures and videos of you skiing? and the gathering is a week in a half away are you going to show or are you way to scared?
post #25 of 33
You are obviously a strong bump skier, but as you described you are having trouble staying centered. Part of this is caused by the position of your arms during the pole plant. By making a pole plant with your elbows close to your body and the palms "open" to the fall line, you can not release the pole plant and the pole gets trapped and has no where to go. As a result your upper body is pushed back from center and twisted to the pole plant side. The frame at :22 shows this happening. As a result you will compensate by breaking at the waist so that you have somewhere to move without falling. If you merely stand more erect without changing your pole plant you will be even more off balance.

Search youtube for some WC mogul skiing film and notice the position of the elbows and palms during the pole plant. Elbows are away from the body and palms facing in. (Think of a football under each arm as a starting position.) Once the pole has been planted the wrist can move with the pole as the skier passes, and will not block the body as you are experiencing now. You will need to practice on easier terrain to get the motion down. I would also suggest practicing on smooth, but steep terrain to get the feeling of reaching for the pole plant, not just blocking. This may be a hard habit to break, but with a little work you will feel significant improvement including upper body positioning and less break at the waist.
post #26 of 33
Hips more forward (pull feet back). More tipping, less pivoting. Lead tipping with inside foot. And yet more tipping.
post #27 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
Hips more forward (pull feet back). More tipping, less pivoting. Lead tipping with inside foot. And yet more tipping.
hey look I agree with max pulling the feet back(another way to flex the ankles) is another great thing to do.
post #28 of 33
Man, your elbows are in too close to your body. Imagine you are holding a 35 inch diameter beach ball against your chest. This places your arms wide apart, elbows high, and your palms facing each other. This allows you to make quicker direction changes and corrections when being bounced around because your turn is not blocked by your arms being in against your body. Also, it appears that you sometimes drop your left hand out of your vision. When a hand drops it tends to put you back on your skis. Be sure to keep both hands were you can see them at all times. Plant your pole out by the tip of your ski and on top of the mogul, as this will drive your ankles forward a bit more. Lastly, on an easy mogul run try skiing cross rut and up onto the top of the mogul where you will make your turn on the open white space. Go slow and allow your skis to load and flex against the mogul as you cross the rut, then rebound up onto the top and turn. This will add one more tool to your arsenal when skiing natural moguls. The following video will illustrate the proper arm position for high level mogul skiing and show you examples of cross-rut technique turns.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scLlZ5E-zCQ

Otherwise, very nice mogul skiing. Thanks for sharing.
post #29 of 33
Shipps, please explain how elbows can block a turn (which happens primarily from the feet)?

If anything, a close elbow might block the upper body from rotating into the turn (which would be a good thing).
post #30 of 33
Lot of missconseptions regarding skiing. Advice given here is to flex your ancles at transition! And on top of that, flex eaqually much at your ancles as in you knees! It gets worse, if you dont the energy will be transfered up into your upper body and make you brake at your waist!! The fact is that you dont flex that much at your ancles and if you are good at flexing your knees they will absorbe most of the energy and keep it from being transferred into your upper body causing you to brake at the waist. Disclaimer, there will allways be some bending forwards at your waist, its a natural result of being forward and slamming into bumps. Also, in the bumps you dont flex through the transition like you maybe do on a groomer. On a groomer you call the shots, in the bumps its the bumps. In the bumps you flex as you pass over a bump. Now comes the tricky part, you need to adapt your line so that all requirements for turning and absorbing the bumps are met. In other words, you need to make your transition passing over the bump and flexing with hardly any pressure on your skis, maybe even up in the air. How on earth are you going to flex your ancles if there is nothing to flex against? Here:

http://ski.topeverything.com/default...nt&ID=D029217F

There are many threads here on epic about backpedalling and I reccomend you to do a search for them and have a look. Lots of animations and photo sequenzes to proove it. Also, keeping your hips forwards is a dangerous advice in the bumps. In the bumps it is very important that you dont place your hips above your knees because that will block your knees from moving up. Avoid at all cost vertical upper legs (hips over knees). Insted, keep your ancles, knees and hips harmonically flexed and be prepared for flexing at all times. In the bumps you neutral position should be such that you are prepared to flex but allso to extend.

How can elbows block a turn!!?? Skiing starts from snow up some claim but where does it end? Ancles, knees, hips, butt, pelvis, chest, shoulders, elbows, wrists, fingertips, skipoles, neck, head, ears, eyes, mind???? IMHO it never stops.
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