Love Handles

Buy bigger shirts?

Do one 4-5 hour cardio per week (60-100mile ride).

Worry about other stuff.

Tattoos; it seems to be what women do with their love handles around here.

there is no such thing as spot reduction. you could stop eating, they would eventually go away. or do like i did and switch to a diet of pbr and twinkies. it won't make you thinner, but eventually your beer gut and double chin will distract attention from your love handles.

Calorie count, as stated no such thing as spot reduction....well that's not totally true, there are some expensive creams available (I think they are german) that do work to a degree, professional bodybuilders sometimes use them for trouble spots. Check in any of the many bodybuilder forums and I am sure someone can lead you to it. Short of that you are simply going to have to adjust your calories. OR try a ketogenic diet 6 days a week, 1 day consume carbs and do not train that day. Next day you will be a beast at the gym. Supplement with flax seed oil (also helps burn fat) and you should see those handles melt away. There are many more powerful things you can take that will make all that disappear, a popular choice is/was clenbuterol. You can still get ephedrine, that with caffeine and aspirin is a potent safe fat burner (don't listen to the media preach about the idiots who killed themselves with that...what they don't tell you is that most of these people had serious heart defects and took 5-10 times the recommended dosages.)

Love handles are the last thing to disappear on guys.
You seem to be working out enough ,although I'm sure some adjustments can be made, so your diet is more of a concern.
For a few weeks you should weigh and measure every thing .
Buy a copy of 'Enter The Zone'. Stick to low glycemic foods. Lots of water,fish oil.flax oil.
Supplements,creams ,etc. really aren't needed.
The cream 'epidril' was proven not to work at all.
Good luck

I was thinking the same thing, except to build some muscle up elsewhere with a little weight training. The love-handles will go away when you get down to a low enough percentage of body fat. They will be the last thing to go. Not worth it in my opinion.

Huge relief to see others first state that spot reduction is a myth.

That being said, however, bear in mind that active exercise will lyse more subcutaneous fat than simple dieting will.

More succinctly put:

A 100 calorie reduction through dieting. alone, will inhibit the further production of fat.


The exercise required to metabolize 100 calories can trigger the utilization of existing fat stores in order to indirectly produce ATP...


This is one of the many reasons that sedentary dieters retain fat deposits, and active chowhounds tend to store fat more evenly over the frame.

By this model, then, one might find it more effective, love-handle wise, to exercise instead of, if not in concert with, strict dieting. More aerobic exercise will lend itself better to this initiative.
Make no mistake , though: Spot reduction remains the stuff of late night infomercials and snake oil dreams

i find exercise is really good at making me hungry.

...it often has the reverse effect, and actually staves hunger off, in many situations.

Your body type could be a factor and it may take Japanese POW camp conditions to lose your love handles. Sounds like it may be easier for you to just go over to the dark side and do the lipo. I did read about a similar case as yours and the guy was very pleased with the results. And you don't have to tell anyone you did it!

just how big are said love handles?
Compared to hip and waist ?

You are 49yo for gosh sakes. You are not supposed to look like an underwear model! Even in perfect shape for your age, you could have a bit of visible fat in places. Get over it. Most people, like 98%, don't have the body chemistry to get super super lean at any point in their life.

You can't spot reduce so forget the love handles and worry about your overall body composition. If you are really concerned, have someone who really really knows their stuff measure your body fat %. Then talk to your Dr. and see what he/she recommends. If it's really good for your age, then don't worry about it. Even at, say 15%, which would be great at your age, you're going to have some visible body fat in places. There's nothing wrong with that; fix your body image.

Or, diet and diet and diet, and make yourself weak and miserable.

Better yet, forget the love handles, keep up your fitness program, eat a lot of healthy food, ski a lot, and enjoy life.

BTW one cream for spot reduction is called Thiomucase....however it more of a spot fat-cell dehydrator, than spot fat-burner.

Applause!

Maintain healthy habits and an intelligent lifestyle, and your body will find its own natural healthy composition.

Spot reduction isnt gonna work, lipo is temporary, contrary to popular belief, your genetic makeup predetermines the number of adipocytes (fat cells) you will have, so removing them will just stimulate new production. You have to slowly burn it off by increasing your metabolic activity, reducing your caloric intake (slowly), reduce fat production and reducing ketone metabolism (unless you want to loose muscle mass).

Fat:
What's the cause of fat generation?...ding ding ding, here's where people get it wrong, its actually post prandial insulin spikes that stimulate fat production. Even when cutting, you need a good supply of non-transfat-fat...so medium chain triglycerides (saturated), and unsaturated fats are good since then are metabolized for ATP production easier than long chain triglycerides.

Carbohydrate:
If you want to cut, limit high glycemic index foods (those above say 50 or 60) to within an hour or so of exercise, this helps carbs get into muscle cells when its needed most (repair/recovery) after exercise and thus not converted into fat when it's not.

Low intensity exercise:
This one is hard, especially for a well conditioned aerobic individual but, slow and steady will increase your fat metabolism since your o2 demands for high energy (2nd/3rd stage ATP production) are not needed too much at say 60% of your maximal heart rate....Once a day, 35-45 mins at low intensity is better for fat reduction than the same time at high intensity. It takes weeks/months to become optimal so this isn't a quick and easy way out. You should find that your endurance surprisingly becomes better at higher intensities so your killing 2 birds with one stone.
High intensity exercise:
To keep it interesting, throw in a day or two of High intensity intervals...but keep this to less than 30% of your aerobic work.

Protein:
Make sure you're consuming enough protein to compensate for the unavoidable amino acid metabolism that is going to occur...your body will want to burn amino acids (muscle) before fat first in the absence of carbohydrate if you starve yourself so again, make sure you consume carbs...just not the enriched ones (whole grains are awesome!)
Keep your fluids up, increased waste production is bad for your kidneys but hyponatria is also bad so don't drink too much h20...clear/pale urine = stop drinking water for now!

Don't forget to strength train....

The above worked for me, it was a combination of understanding biochemistry in med school, doing a lot of evidence based reading and talking to many many personal trainers+ a qualified nutritionist. Results come, but not quick (the quick ones tend to fade away just as fast)...its more about an overall change, (one day of indulgence won't hurt)...I went from 18% bodyfat to a tad over 10% in about 5 months, and put on about 5 pounds (since I started) because of increased muscle mass...so it does work, for me...so use this as a guideline...everybody is different as you probably know!

No offense but you must know something the rest of all successful bodybuilders don't.

Reduce ketone metabolism??? Why would he not want to metabolize lipids (fat) for energy? (BTW the brain prefers ketones for energy)

With regards to carbohydrate restriction. While it is not the way for one's training growth phase, for getting the leanest, its the only way. I was a fitness model for over 10 years....never have I been so lean as when I strictly cut the carbs out completely. While putting on the mass I kept things in check by consuming only low GI foods, and if I did eat simple sugars they would always be paired with fat to slow their breakdown (except post workout). Professional bodybuilders, you know the ones that get so lean that they are near death, 2-3% BF at 250lbs of lean muscle, all practice carb cutting for competition (yes I know they are walking pharmaceutical experiments but there are things they do that work for anyone.) Will you loose muscle mass while being ketogenic or even cutting carbs a little? YES, but you will loose muscle mass with any diet. Optimal muscle growth environment is one which supplies the body with an abundance of nutrients. Eating nutrient rich (fat, carbs, protein) diet is anabolic and aids in GH production. This is why a pro body builder will pack on 50 or more lbs in the off season (growth stage) and then diet down to competition weight, losing lots of fat, but lots of muscle as well (this is where steroids really help, by preserving your muscle). There is no way around it. Putting on mass while dieting is double as hard and not optimal for either goal, but since we are not all fitness models or professional bodybuilders its enough for most.

Doog,

The short answer is NO.

I put on the poundage and then cut the bodyfat...that was the sequence...I never claimed to know anything out of this world...

also, let me clarify, by ketone metabolism in this context I meant reduce muscle mass loss not eliminate it by supplying adequate protein..(muscle loss will happen while cutting, im aware of that)...and yes, he wants to metabolize fats over muscle for energy...my statement was misworded....apologies...

now let me pick apart your statement about brain tissue using ketones for energy....yes over fatty acids...but no over glucose...so complex/ low GI carbs will provide a pathway for glucose supply via gluconeogenesis if he's eating...not fasting. Small, frequent meals, not starvation....but as a 10 year fitness model you know that....right?

no offense here but
do you know something that the FDA and medical professionals don't?

If you can provide an empirical basis for the efficacy of the ECA stack, I'll rescind my above question...

providing someone with common diet suggestions or workout routines is one thing, telling them to use a combination of potentially lethal substances is another (and yes at least one of the products in there is, the FDA says so the media doesn't matter much). I consider your suggestion medical advice, be it over the counter or not... leave that to the OP's physician...

Yes actually I do, as do many many others who practice what they preach. If you rely solely on the FDAs recommendations for your guideline to nutritional requirements then I have a few bridges here in NY that I can sell you, cheap!

I can write an encyclopedia worth of missteppings of the accepted medical community, that as of late has been back pedaling quite a bit seeing as people who were not accepting their doctor's ignorant and out dated recommendations as medical doctrine were getting better quicker using alternative methods.

Last I checked the official stand of the FDA on steroids is that they do not help with athletic performance.......yeah I believe them. Look at the PDR...under every anabolic steroids they have a warning to the effect that the substance has not proven to result in increased muscle growth or athletic performance....what a joke...or crime, seeing as they are what medical doctors, who are basically responsible for people's lives, use as a guide to prescribe medications. I wonder how many other things they are pulling the wool over every one's eyes about.....many is my guess, with all the approved drug related law suits that have been appearing over the past 10 year or so.

With regards to ECA stack, I must be the walking dead since I took that stack at max dosage for many, many years, while drinking coffee regularly and training heavy 6 days a week; as did all my peers no one died or had heart attacks and many of them even juiced....heavily. But then again we weren't a bunch of ignorant yahoos taking several times the normal dosages with a congenital heart defect. Myself and most of my friends come from educated science backgrounds, some of which today are physicians and research scientists and laugh as the "medical" community that most follow.

Sounds like you are the typical know-nothing and fear everything type of guy, who reads a lot, does little, and believes all the crap the media spews out....most of them have never even lifted a barbell much less have qualifications to report on supplements and nutrition. What a joke.

In all your health and nutritional wisdom did you know that Tylenol is one of the worst things you can put into your body? Did you know that consuming more than 40g of caffeine at once will pretty much ensure you will die? We have no problems with this stuff, too much money being made, but ephedrine, which prior to its abuse has long been used for asthma sufferers, all of a sudden is lethal......sure it is, if you swallow the whole bottle...I wonder what the pathologist will see when he looks at your liver after you swallow a whole bottle of Tylenol.

Yes I do....as I think do most, they only mention it on every morning talk show every day.

That's ok, last week I paid $20 for the Brooklyn bridge from a guy selling it on the lower east side and if you believe ephedra and asprin are nutrients, I'll sell that bridge to you...


There's no need, there's plenty of books out there written by anti-establishment individuals like you. You'd just whine more if they started using untested therapeutics and toxic side effects ensued. Recommendations are changed when there's enough documented evidence to justify the change, that's part legal but mainly how sound medicine is practiced, oh but im just a read-all do nothing yahoo..right?

If the FDA is wrong at so many levels, why is the general medical establishment following their guidelines? There's a tried and tested reasoning process behind this. Physicians are allowed to use a drug off-label, are they prescribing steroids (the legal ones) for athletic performance? Cocaine is a great sodium channel blocker, TONS of illicit users can attest its effects, do dentists advocate it for toothaches? Oh but I'm just an ordinary read-all do nothing yahoo...


So your advice is better than most physicians correct? Might as well print your own scrip pads then. What is this so called 'common medical community' you and your science educated friends laugh at? The one the media creates? I laugh at that one too. If you believed steroids were so effective and safe, why didn't you juice alongside your buddies back in the day... they're physicians? You'd be a fool not to have... especially as a model right?

You might have me beaten on the fitness model thing and maybe the education as well...I guess multiple biomedical masters degrees plus med school aren't enough to overcome your insider expertise on why the medical establishment is incorrect and you are...right?


That information can be pulled up by anyone who knows the word google. It took you what, 15 seconds to find the LD for acetaminophen? If it were all money, Vioxx would still be on the market...but again, the media created that one as well right?

No healthy people ever died from ECA stack use (not abuse)....fact. They are not nutrients but you're the one that brought up the FDA.

Please don't tell me you prescribe to the notion that anabolic steroids are dangerous even when correctly used and not abused.

Tit for tat....FTR, I too posses a masters degree in cellular biology...the difference is, once again, I have practiced what I preach....living proof my friend....living and healthy (aside from the damages I cause myself from skiing).


You cant pull the information up if you don't know what you are looking for.

steveturner that was pretty short too. Only one change, and not a diet one either.

I brought up the FDA because they set the legal guidelines on what can be prescribed/sold and what cannot, (PhD's, MD's and so forth make up the advisory board, not $$ driven executives) if you ever took even a basic pharmacology class in grad school you'd know the process and reasoning behind what the scientific advisory board does... example, cocaine doesn't kill every user, many medical professionals probably use it recreationally, do they prescribe it? NO, they legally could if they have a valid off label excuse, but the risks outweigh the benefits...same deal with anabolics. You have an anti FDA viewpoint...there isn't a huge physician lobby out there asking to rid the FDA of its authority, they have a prescription pad,follow the rules and most don't whine, you're not one of them.

You of all people should know then, that cell biologist does not equal license to prescribe medication. If you're a competent scientist, you'd also know that the quality of evidence matters; anecdotal, like in your case has very little scientific value. So what if there's lots of people who use/used an ECA stack and are healthy, it's still dangerous, what if the OP has undiagnosed hypertension, or any other undiagnosed pathology, there's plenty of contradictions to using ephedra...you i'm afraid actually DO seem to follow the 'media' regarding OTC's and non scrip drugs, just because you can walk in and buy if off the shelf doesn't mean there's lots and lots that can't go wrong with NORMAL doses of OTC medications if you indicate anything from abnormal metabolism to clearance and lots of other things... You never answered why Vioxx was banned. There's hundreds of thousands of people (if not millions) walking around who were on Vioxx for a decent amount of time before it was pulled. They're alive and healthy as well, most physicians aren't rallying to get it back on the market.
Do what you want to yourself, but like I said before, don't preach medical advice... you know cell biology, I respect that, its an awesome, fascinating sub-field, but you are nowhere close to practicing medicine.

My 13 year old nephew can, and i just tried it.....just google tylenol overdose, you don't need to be a scientist to know you have to search for that.

Do you know what the official FDA recognized number of deaths related to ephedra is? Try 5 people.....tens of millions used the stuff and 5 highly, overly, and erroneously publicised deaths and it got banned.....really dangerous stuff there pal. For the record all 5 should never have been taking the stuff to begin with due to other medical reasons. In contrast hundreds of thousands die every year due to legit prescribed medications. I don't need an MD degree to see what are readily available figures...I am a bit older than 13 but I too can seek out numbers on the internet.

Here is CrossFit's stand on nutrition.
http://www.crossfit.com/cf-info/start-diet.html
It works quite well coupled with our workouts.
If you eat 'clean' and work your tail off in the gym,properly,
you don't need any 'supplements' .