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Life without meat & skiing - Page 2

post #31 of 66
1/10/08 at 8:35pm
I've been vegan, well apian actually - I do eat honey, for 17 years. I'm 5'9". At the time I was 210#. After six months of my vegan diet I was down to 160#, and finally settled at my current weight of 180#, and feeling great. The level of energy was so much higher. The biggest difference was how well I slept at night. My lever of exercise didn't change from before to after. I was always active.

So for me, the apian diet has been great. My wife and son are both vegetarian but do eat fish once every couple of months though.

In the 17 years, I have never try to convinced someone that they should be vegan, vegetarian and anything else. I believe some people do better as vegetarians, some vegans and some who eat red meat, and some who eat meat but not red.

What I do tell people though is to be mindful of what they eat. Digestion is the 2nd most energy consuming activity you can do, sex being #1 . So when eating make sure you are smart about it. For instance, eating meat and potatoes, so what's wrong with that? Well, meat is an acid, potatoes are alkaline. The stomach must use two different process to digest that combination so your digesting stage is longer than if you had eaten meat and some greens.

Oh, and the US Ski Team nutritionists always recommend to make sure you eat enough carbs during long sessions of training.
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post #32 of 66
1/10/08 at 10:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post
I like my meat red and full of steroids and GH thank you.
DITTO. I eat a steak (almost) everyday for lunch. Tofu lowers testosterone levels, no thank you.
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post #33 of 66
1/10/08 at 10:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by skilife View Post
Oh, and the US Ski Team nutritionists always recommend to make sure you eat enough carbs during long sessions of training.
Probably not bad advice for elite athletes who do tons of aerobic training ( IMHO as long as the carbs aren't pure sugar or lots of refined stuff like flour. But maybe that's just how my body is. ) But you can't build muscle without protein. So unless they want their ski team to have no muscle mass, IMHO they should also recommend to make sure you get enough protein as well. But then again, most americans get PLENTY of both carbs ( but probably not the right kinds of carbs ) and protein, and don't have to make any *effort* to get enough.
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post #34 of 66
1/10/08 at 10:34pm
"Men eating animal together: is a ritual. I don't get how people can mess with not eating MEAT.
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post #35 of 66
1/10/08 at 11:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowphat View Post
I don't get how people can mess with not eating MEAT.
Agreed. Why would they call it "ME (E)AT" if we weren't supposed to eat it. LOL.
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post #36 of 66
1/10/08 at 11:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdf View Post
He claims that the problem is not being a carnivore per se, but rather eating industrial beef (or chicken) which is raised on an unnatural diet and pumped full of antibiotics to survive under high-stress conditions. His thesis, broadly simplified, is that the health effects move up the food chain with the nutrients.
My wife read the same book. No big deal for us, we just switched from beef to bison, and switched to organic/free range on the other animal origin protein and we never went with farmed fish. Growing up on a farm, I was always used to grass-fed beef anyway. It was quite a shock the first time I went down east and had a taste of corn-fed beef and yellow chickens.

As to stamina, I'll have to see later this month when I connect with my vegan daughter and we do a ski weekend together. In the past, she's always spent the last hour in the lodge while I was catching some final runs, but she's spent the last four months running across UBC to catch classes, so she claims she's in better shape.
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post #37 of 66
1/11/08 at 6:42am
I had nearly become a vegetarian, some 7 years ago...
Not that I was not eating meat at all, but I found that, if given the choice I was eating other things. After heart surgery, to eat all the vegetables I once loved (Spinaches, Krauts, Brussels Broccoli and so on) in like eating venom for me and so definitely a no-no. So I have to eat meat, or my diet would be too narrow with only the vegetables I can eat (and I must eat small quantities of those as well, all vegetalbes interfere with coumadin, one way or the other).
So, I'm back at being an omnivore.
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post #38 of 66
1/11/08 at 6:53am
My wife and I tried vegetarianism (for humanitarian reasons) a few years back. It's very easy in most of Italy, what with all the pasta, fresh produce and cheese. The mountains killed us, though. It's all grilled and cured meat up there. We gave in after about a season and a half.
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post #39 of 66
1/11/08 at 7:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by prickly View Post
My wife and I tried vegetarianism (for humanitarian reasons) a few years back.
Forgive me if I don't see a connection with humanitarianism -- you stopped eating people?
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post #40 of 66
1/11/08 at 7:04am
That's pretty funny, really. No, sympathy with animals and all.
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post #41 of 66
1/15/08 at 1:50pm
I have been a vegetarian for 24 years. Immediately after Christmas 2007, I challenged myself to adopt a vegan diet for 30 days. Mind you, this was three days before our first ski trip of the year. Probably not the best timing in the world.

More than anything I was worried that the ski area and town we were visiting would have nothing for me to eat. We were in the middle of nowhere in Idaho.

Surprisingly, I was able to find several options available to me both on the hill and in town.

I can't specifically speak to giving up meat and the effects on skiing, but after only a few days of a vegan diet I did notice that I was nowhere near as tired at the end of the day. Now that it has been a full 30 days, my endurance at the gym has skyrocketed. I don't know for sure if there is a connection, but it has been so easy that I am continuing to be vegan.

And as far as the protein issue, I can vouch for the fact that being a vegetarian has not made me protein deprived. I am a pretty hardcore gym rat and can lift more weight than pretty much any other woman in the place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post
I have never heard of a vegetarian ski racer or bicycle racer for example.
Just as an FYI, the following athletes were vegans or vegetarians:

** Carl Lewis, “Olympian of the Century,” Olympic medalist in track
 Ruth Heidrich, Ironman triathlete, age-group record holder
 ** Martina Navratilova, tennis champion
 Desmond Howard, Heisman trophy winner
 Stan Price, world-record holder in bench press
 Bill Walton, NBA Hall of Famer
 ** Dave Scott, six-time Ironman champion and first inductee into Ironman Hall of Fame
 Phoebe Mills, Olympic medal-winning gymnast
 ** Lucy Stephens, triathlete
 Billie Jean King, tennis champion
 Bill Manetti, powerlifting champion
 Bill Pearl, four-time Mr. Universe and bodybuilder
 Al Oerter, discus thrower and winner of four Olympic gold medals
 ** Keith Holmes, WBC World Middleweight Champion
 Robert Parish, one of the NBA’s “50 Greatest Players”
 Jack LaLanne, fitness legend and media star
 Edwin Moses, two-time Olympic Gold medalist in hurdles
 ** Sally Eastall, marathon runner
** indicates that they were vegans.

Best of luck to you and a big WAY TO GO for your wife!
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post #42 of 66
1/15/08 at 2:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dburdenbates View Post
I have been a vegetarian for 24 years. Immediately after Christmas 2007, I challenged myself to adopt a vegan diet for 30 days. Mind you, this was three days before our first ski trip of the year. Probably not the best timing in the world.

More than anything I was worried that the ski area and town we were visiting would have nothing for me to eat. We were in the middle of nowhere in Idaho.

Surprisingly, I was able to find several options available to me both on the hill and in town.

I can't specifically speak to giving up meat and the effects on skiing, but after only a few days of a vegan diet I did notice that I was nowhere near as tired at the end of the day. Now that it has been a full 30 days, my endurance at the gym has skyrocketed. I don't know for sure if there is a connection, but it has been so easy that I am continuing to be vegan.

And as far as the protein issue, I can vouch for the fact that being a vegetarian has not made me protein deprived. I am a pretty hardcore gym rat and can lift more weight than pretty much any other woman in the place.



Just as an FYI, the following athletes were vegans or vegetarians:

** Carl Lewis, “Olympian of the Century,” Olympic medalist in track
Ruth Heidrich, Ironman triathlete, age-group record holder
** Martina Navratilova, tennis champion
Desmond Howard, Heisman trophy winner
Stan Price, world-record holder in bench press
Bill Walton, NBA Hall of Famer
** Dave Scott, six-time Ironman champion and first inductee into Ironman Hall of Fame
Phoebe Mills, Olympic medal-winning gymnast
** Lucy Stephens, triathlete
Billie Jean King, tennis champion
Bill Manetti, powerlifting champion
Bill Pearl, four-time Mr. Universe and bodybuilder
Al Oerter, discus thrower and winner of four Olympic gold medals
** Keith Holmes, WBC World Middleweight Champion
Robert Parish, one of the NBA’s “50 Greatest Players”
Jack LaLanne, fitness legend and media star
Edwin Moses, two-time Olympic Gold medalist in hurdles
** Sally Eastall, marathon runner
** indicates that they were vegans.

Best of luck to you and a big WAY TO GO for your wife!
That's an impressive list, but the people you list at least some are cheating and not what I consider a vegetarian. Bill Pearl was a lacto-ovo vegetarian...so as a bodybuilder he is not depriving himself of anything. Up until recently the only way to get good protein without all the fat was to only consume egg and milk proteins. Now we have whey, but that too is okay because it is a milk by product. By this measure, I too was a vegetarian at one time, since I was eating primarily eggs, milk, and whey.

I know some people who consider themselves a vegetarian and they eat tuna. Seems like anyone that does not eat red meat all of a sudden is a vegetarian.

Cows do not eat meat, eggs, nor fish, nor cheese (not knowingly at least)...they are true vegetarians, anything other than that to me is just a person who chooses not to eat certain things.

Vegetarian = nothing that is made by or from an animal
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post #43 of 66
1/15/08 at 2:43pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dburdenbates View Post
I can't specifically speak to giving up meat and the effects on skiing, but after only a few days of a vegan diet I did notice that I was nowhere near as tired at the end of the day. Now that it has been a full 30 days, my endurance at the gym has skyrocketed. I don't know for sure if there is a connection, but it has been so easy that I am continuing to be vegan.

That's great to hear. It pretty much jives with what i've been experiencing. They opened up Third Bowl and the Front Side here in Crested Butte on sunday after the latest round of storms. I hit it hard from 9am to 4pm and was still going strong. No way I could have ended with that much energy a month ago. So either I'm in better shape or this diet is having an effect. Probably a little bit of both.

Que
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post #44 of 66
1/15/08 at 2:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post
Vegetarian = nothing that is made by or from an animal
Actually, that is only half true. Veganism is no animal flesh OR byproducts. Someone can be considered a true vegetarian if they eat eggs and dairy, especially if they are careful to avoid rennetless cheese and items containing gelatin. My boss used to razz me about not eating anything with a face.

Pescevegetarians eat no animal flesh with the exception of fish and seafood. A friend of mine is a pescevegetarian and she always explains it as not eating anything that nurtures its young.

Then there are all the other "new" versions.

Pollotarianism — A diet in which the only animals consumed are fowl and poultry.

Flexitarianism — A diet that consists primarily of vegetarian food, but that allows occasional exceptions.

In my opinion, anyone who tries to limit their intake of meat or meat byproducts in any way helps reduce animal suffering and cruelty.

Now, to ensure I don't violate the TOS, let me just say that as a vegetarian and now a vegan, finding food at ski areas can be tough, but hardly ever impossible.
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post #45 of 66
1/15/08 at 3:14pm
Just to play devil's advocate, there are some true fish that care for their young.

There are many two legged mammals that do not care for their young as well....they probably should be skewered.
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post #46 of 66
1/15/08 at 11:35pm
I come from a hunting family. After my pops beat his colon cancer he went off animal fat and white bread. Still eats lean meat and whole grains, etc, but he keeps it healthy. He's lost heeps of weight and says he feels great.

The South Beach Diet helped him reshape his lifestyle. (yeah, my dad.) as recommended by his doctor.

fat cells = breeding grounds for cancer cells, too, btw.

by all means, imo, eat meat- but keep it lean and in moderation.

For hints on how to eat meals in moderation, come to Japan where every meal is like 13 courses of some bite-sized variety.

You want the beef entree? Okay, that will be a cup of rice, a small cucumber salad, a spoonful of soybeans, soybean soup with an onion flake, a radish, half an eggplant, two cherry tomatoes, two spoonfuls of potato salad, 6 greenbeans, and 3 bites of beef. literally.
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post #47 of 66
1/16/08 at 12:14am
No one's mentioned the essential role of beer in the skier's diet.
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post #48 of 66
1/16/08 at 12:55am

My experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by Que View Post
My question is this: are there any other vegans or vegetarians out there that might have had similar experiences when they went off meat? I can't say that I don't crave a giant porterhouse but if this is what I get in return, I might make a habit of it.
Que
Roughly a year ago I drastically reduced meat (from 3x - 5x a day to 2x-4x a month), diary and sugar and changed to whole-grain + legume (beans, tofu, ...) + vegetables.
Some time after the change I experienced an improvement in stamina and the begining of this season was terrific. The slopes, where I ussually had to make 2 - 3 breaks in the beginning of season, I could ski in one go now. No sweating, not short of breath, no legs burning. The only downside seems to be the feeling of cold - so, I have to dress more.
Last week I spent 7 excelent busy days skiing and am feeling great - no fatigue, fast recovery.
Overall, I just enjoy. Consulted my experiences with doc, and her comment was that meat digesting process is quite slow and requires a lot of energy+water. I was surprised to hear that it takes about one week to fully digest meat, compared to one day for my current diet.
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post #49 of 66
1/16/08 at 6:59am

vegie

Hi,
I found that red meats really slow me down, and white meats [pork ch'kn etc] have little to no effect. Red meats will have a re-building effect when things go tilt, but need a couple of days to complete the process. It's funny how different we all are!
I'd like to go even more veggie than now, but not to the extreem.
I observe that the first items I dive in for on the plate are the veggies, and second helpings are salads and the like....
My belief is, above all,,stay far away from processed foods, fast foods, and junk. There are more great tasting other choices. Have at least two non meat colors on the plate and eat less meats than you think you need/want.
Listen to your body, it will talk to you.
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post #50 of 66
1/16/08 at 9:03am
PETA = People for the Eating of Tasty Animals
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post #51 of 66
1/16/08 at 9:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by eblackwelder View Post
PETA = People for the Eating of Tasty Animals
I had some really tasty pulled pork for dinner last night. Too bad I ate it all, leftovers for lunch would be good.


This whole vegan/vegetarian thing just blows my mind. What do you think people ate 150 years ago? Even further back? MEAT. And vegetables. Personally, I think that the key is to limit the processed crap (easier/cheaper said than done), balanced diet, and everything in moderation. Have a steak, but not the WHOLE steak. Mix it with some veggies, maybe throw in a baked potato. Oh, and of course you have to be active too, or else anything you eat is going to wreak havoc on the body.
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post #52 of 66
1/16/08 at 10:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dburdenbates View Post
I have been a vegetarian for 24 years. Immediately after Christmas 2007, I challenged myself to adopt a vegan diet for 30 days. Mind you, this was three days before our first ski trip of the year. Probably not the best timing in the world.

More than anything I was worried that the ski area and town we were visiting would have nothing for me to eat. We were in the middle of nowhere in Idaho.

Surprisingly, I was able to find several options available to me both on the hill and in town.

I can't specifically speak to giving up meat and the effects on skiing, but after only a few days of a vegan diet I did notice that I was nowhere near as tired at the end of the day. Now that it has been a full 30 days, my endurance at the gym has skyrocketed. I don't know for sure if there is a connection, but it has been so easy that I am continuing to be vegan.

And as far as the protein issue, I can vouch for the fact that being a vegetarian has not made me protein deprived. I am a pretty hardcore gym rat and can lift more weight than pretty much any other woman in the place.



Just as an FYI, the following athletes were vegans or vegetarians:

** Carl Lewis, “Olympian of the Century,” Olympic medalist in track
Ruth Heidrich, Ironman triathlete, age-group record holder
** Martina Navratilova, tennis champion
Desmond Howard, Heisman trophy winner
Stan Price, world-record holder in bench press
Bill Walton, NBA Hall of Famer
** Dave Scott, six-time Ironman champion and first inductee into Ironman Hall of Fame
Phoebe Mills, Olympic medal-winning gymnast
** Lucy Stephens, triathlete
Billie Jean King, tennis champion
Bill Manetti, powerlifting champion
Bill Pearl, four-time Mr. Universe and bodybuilder
Al Oerter, discus thrower and winner of four Olympic gold medals
** Keith Holmes, WBC World Middleweight Champion
Robert Parish, one of the NBA’s “50 Greatest Players”
Jack LaLanne, fitness legend and media star
Edwin Moses, two-time Olympic Gold medalist in hurdles
** Sally Eastall, marathon runner
** indicates that they were vegans.

Best of luck to you and a big WAY TO GO for your wife!
Not a very impressive list.

Why isn't Levi Leipheimer on the list, he's a vegan? Oh thats right, he hasn't won the Tour De France and never will.

I actually don't have anything against vegans or vegetarians, two of my sisters are vegetarians. I've actually had Bocaburgers on more than one occasion, they actaully taste great. But I hate to break to you Vegans, they don't taste a like a burger, more like a tasty tater tot or hash brown.

I love animals, they taste great.
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post #53 of 66
1/16/08 at 10:41am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by krp8128 View Post
This whole vegan/vegetarian thing just blows my mind. What do you think people ate 150 years ago? Even further back? MEAT. And vegetables. Personally, I think that the key is to limit the processed crap (easier/cheaper said than done), balanced diet, and everything in moderation. Have a steak, but not the WHOLE steak. Mix it with some veggies, maybe throw in a baked potato. Oh, and of course you have to be active too, or else anything you eat is going to wreak havoc on the body.
Actually, if you shift your frame of reference to a couple of thousand years, it wasn't until only recently the meat became a big portion of the every day person's diet. It really came from the industrial revolution forward where meat was available as reasonable prices and could be stored properly. The average human's diet in say 1500 AD was mainly made up of cereals and other veggies. Meat was something for the wealthy and to have on special occasions. Not saying it isn't damn tasty but until i started looking into this thing I too had the impression that people throughout the ages had a large portion of their diets made up of meat.

I personally subscribe to your theory of meat with moderation and if it weren't for this dare/challenge from veganwife I never would have dabbled in such a diet choice. But quite frankly I am blown away by the benefits i've experienced and the more I read up on this subject (recent AMA study on meat and cancer, the China Study, etc) I have to say I understand where these Vegans and Vegetarians are coming from. Couple that with the inherent environmental impacts of large scale meat production and over fishing of the oceans and it makes you wonder.
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post #54 of 66
1/16/08 at 11:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Que View Post
Couple that with the inherent environmental impacts of large scale meat production and over fishing of the oceans and it makes you wonder.
Yep, I was going to mention that too, but I figured someone else would bring it up. I'm conflicted on this; I am very much opposed to the environmental impacts, but I question how much of an impact becoming a vegan actually affects the market. I guess you have to start somewhere though.
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post #55 of 66
1/16/08 at 11:35am
I spent a couple months in the Himalayas 25 yrs ago, living in small inns and people's houses, eating the local food, which is almost entirely meatless. Rice and lentils with sometimes a few veggies thrown in and lots of tea. Sometimes a few potatoes. Boiled eggs and sometimes chappatis, a kind of flour tortilla for breakfast. Tried a little yak meat, fellow whittled off a few bits of blackened meat from something hanging from an overhead rafter. One kind of rancid meat is pretty much like another. For what its worth, the indigenous people who live on this diet are able to carry heavy loads all day at altitude without difficulty.
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post #56 of 66
1/16/08 at 11:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by krp8128 View Post
This whole vegan/vegetarian thing just blows my mind. What do you think people ate 150 years ago? Even further back? MEAT.
I'm not really sure that doing things the way people did them 150 years ago is a good justification for anything.
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post #57 of 66
1/17/08 at 11:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by krp8128 View Post
Field trip to a slaughterhouse? What was the teacher thinking?
That kids should have a clue about what goes on in the world? Nothing wrong with that.

I've been to feedlots and slaughterhouses...still eat meat.
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post #58 of 66
1/17/08 at 11:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by krp8128 View Post
I had some really tasty pulled pork for dinner last night. Too bad I ate it all, leftovers for lunch would be good.


This whole vegan/vegetarian thing just blows my mind. What do you think people ate 150 years ago? Even further back? MEAT.
And that is a good example of why they were so healthy and lived so long?
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post #59 of 66
1/17/08 at 11:46am
Maybe, maybe not. Tough to say, but most weren't as obese as people are now.
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post #60 of 66
1/17/08 at 12:06pm
Well back in the REALLY old days when we still had jaws to better match our cainine teeth not only did cavemen eat meat but it also ate us!: If you ask me fire and cooking was a bigger breakthrough than the wheel. Speaking of inventions, I've heard tale that there is some evidence that primative tools found include snow shoes that also could have slid like skis do.
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